Sonic Mania (Switch, PS4, Xbox One, PC)

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by TimmiT, Jul 23, 2016.

  1. HedgeHayes

    HedgeHayes

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    As I said before, I'm the one not liking it, in fact utterly ignoring it. I'm a seasoned player, not a novice one, yet, adding that to my gameplay feels strange, gimmicky. Insta-shield helped me getting over my gameplay weak points (in S3&K, of course, haven't tried the Mania version), while this one feels redundant and harder to foresee. As I said earlier, landing and using a good old spindash feels simpler to me, and I don't need more since I don't do speedruns and I don't get any satisfaction in rushing everything; I play modern games when I want to do that.

    Oh, and I've always preferred standard Sonic over easy-mode Sonic (aka Tails): I'd like Knuckles (AKA hard-mode Sonic+Tails) more than Sonic if he didn't jump so low and had more chances of exploring using his skills, something S3&K did better than Mania for me but still not in the way I wished.
     
  2. Josh

    Josh

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    Figured you guys would get a kick out of this take from another forum I visit.

    [​IMG]

    Yep. Sonic 3's special stages were just as bad, if not worse, than Bubsy 3D. And for all the things we've been debating here since the game was announced, I don't think I've ever heard a single person on Retro or off say that "one character per file" was a problem.
     
  3. JaxTH

    JaxTH

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    Jack shit.
    Since it's you I'm assuming DK Vine or some other such site.

    But I don't get the save file complaint. That's like complaining about not being able to play as Chris whenever you please after starting a game with Jill in Resident Evil.
     
  4. HEDGESMFG

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    I've been studying the maps for comparisons to their original counterparts and here is what I've noticed when following each stage with the original map.

    So for the most part, those maps are very, very impressive, save the fact that about 3 of them are heavily rehashed versions of past stages with only fairly minor changes (Namely Flying Battery 1, Oil Ocean 1, and Hydrocity 2, the former and latter which are nearly 1;1 with their original counterparts). Oil Ocean 2, Hydrocity 1, and Flying Battery 2 are otherwise generally all original (and boy is Flying Batter 2 crazy complex), with the exception of the first one having a few similar looking areas, but otherwise is very different from the Sonic 2 Act 2 version.

    Other remixed stages did seem to get a lot more variation. Green Hill 1 re-uses Acts 1,2, but the expanded areas are used cleverly enough to the point where I can let it pass. Interestingly, Green Hill act 2 is actually Act 3 with extra areas and a lot of new gimmicks, the core layout is nearly 1:1 for the first half, but it is well disguised by the new gimmicks so it still feels fresh (we all pretty much didn't notice in the previews).

    Chemical Plant actually cuts out parts of both act 1,2 from the original game to merge them together, then adds a few extra lower area secrets to act 1, so it feels a bit more fresh. Act 2 is of course fully original.

    Stardust Speedway is so incomprehensibly complex that it's almost impossible for the naked eye to even compare it to the original, though it does share a few loose similarities in overall structure of act 2. Act 1 is original and reuses little from the past stages beyond looks.

    Lava reef looks familiar at a lot of points, but is actually quite different in overall layout (unlike the prototype act 1 which is expanded from the original like Green Hill.) This applies to both Acts.

    Metallic Madness has a few loosely copied parts at best but otherwise bears no resemblance to the original stage beyond gimmicks. It's a truly amazing design.

    All 4 original zones are very, very well designed from top to bottom, and pretty darn large. Look at Studiopolis 2. You can see why it won over Izuka with a stage that well made.


    I am disappointed in the 3 rehashed stages with Hydrocity 2 being the worst of the lot (though the original stage was great, and the first 1/3 of the map is all new.) Not sure if the game was just rushed to include these levels, or what, but they fortunately do make up a small minority of the game's overall content.
     
  5. Chimera

    Chimera

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    Castlevania prettyness
    So something interesting to note about Stardust Speedway. It feels like the 1st act takes a good deal of time to get through, like any other stage, meanwhile Act 2 feels like it goes by in an instant.

    But...


    Act 1
    [​IMG]
    Act 2
    [​IMG]


    They're almost the same length.


    This is interesting because act 1 feels SIGNIFICANTLY longer than Act 2, and save for the boss area in 1, act 2 is actually a touch longer in size.

    I think this is a clear case of speed compressing time, cuz the level design in act 1 is a lot more vertical, and unlike act 2 actually starts from the bottom left instead of the top. There's a few branching paths but you can't just fly through the top and thats it; not only are walls literally preventing you from doing that but the level design also encourages moving downward then back up and all around the place. Act 2, mean while, starting up high, has boosters and springs and generally a lot of shit throwing you to the right. But, as you can see, the level design is incredibly complex in its own right. While it's, time-wise, a short burst of action compared to the first act, it's an incredibly intricate series of paths bringing you forward where continuous playthroughs are almost guaranteed to be different (unless you just autopilot through).


    I was thinking a while ago about what it'd be like if Mania modding could take off and we could not just edit levels but expand them, and I definitely feel like I want to do that with Stardust Speedway, but I was honestly stunned seeing Act 2 have as much ground covered as act 1, the only difference being how it uses that space.

    I mainly wanted to bring this up because some people have said Stardust Speedway as a stage kind of suffers due to the boss fight, a divisive hit-or-miss, pulling a City Escape Modern and having the "spectacle" take over the actual meat of the stage. It's true that the stage propper really doesn't take too long to get through, but... Looking at these maps, it's actually kinda incredible how much of Stardust Speedway Act 2 you'll just miss because you're too busy blazing through it.
     
  6. Stimil Rc.

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    Considering that they're from a DKC message board, I'm gonna assume that their complaint about only having one character per file is actually about them feeling that the partner character mechanic was wasted potential since in the DKC games, you could switch between the characters at any time, they were closer to eachother in capability, had tag team moves, and the stages were designed with these things in mind, often requiring that you have both characters to achieve 100%.

    Contrasting that, Mania only has Sonic & Tails and any of the characters & Knuckles (where the partner Knuckles loses his ability to break things that player Knuckles can) as options and you can't switch to the partner character. Only Sonic and Tails get a tag team option, it's something Tails can already do on his own, and it's never required to get anything that contributes to completion.

    They're probably miffed that classic Sonic isn't classic Donkey Kong Country.

    If not that, then I have no clue what they're angry about.
     
  7. With regard to the level maps imgur album, some of them are .png files with a transparent background and proper resolution, but a lot are .jpg files with a white background and varying levels of shrinkage. Does anyone know where we can get the 'proper' .png versions of all the maps?

    Where'd you get the level maps with the blurred background visible? It looks cool
     
  8. Josh

    Josh

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    Yeah, I had that thought, too. It's kind of funny, I came at that from the other direction when I was little. I remember when I first played Donkey Kong Country, I'd only had a Genesis (my first console) for a few months, and everything I played got compared to Sonic. In DKC, I thought it was really strange how Diddy would stay on-screen at all times, couldn't be controlled by the second player simultaneously, and even that he COULDN'T FLY.

    I was actually invited to talk about Sonic Mania on DK Vine's podcast this week, and we also theorized about what a DKC or Banjo game made with the same approach might look like. The main showrunner knows next to nothing about Sonic, so it was a bit of a challenge to give a general overview of the history of the hacking community and the unique conditions that led to this happening, but it was also a lot of fun.

    [youtube]http://youtu.be/VtKuaTxAWww?t=45s[/youtube]

    (Recommend you skip the first 45 seconds if you're going to listen to it. I think they've got some kind of ARG going on with the intro, but it's QUITE LOUD.)
     
  9. Chimera

    Chimera

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    i made em :specialed:

    I know we already have full rips of stages courtesy of, well, someone (and EyeKey's script of course, + anyone else who contribed), but if people like these enough I can do the blurred-background look for more/all of the stages. Would be neat, I spose.
     
  10. HEDGESMFG

    HEDGESMFG

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    Please do. These are much nicer to look at until we get more complete versions with objects added in.
     
  11. Lapper

    Lapper

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    Finally beat all special stages, got the hang of it now.

    I want to beat them all over and over again back to back they are too fun.
     
  12. This is epic! And I think I found my fav part what I was talking about 1 day xD

    [​IMG]
    This part on FBZ act 2. Where you run down the edge and the black thing rotates you there. Such a damn joy!
     
  13. Lapper

    Lapper

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    Mirage Act 2 is saddeningly small :( That stage deserved to be 2 huge full acts, with the plane segment (which I like!) reserved for a remixed stage. It all fits but I would have liked more.

    Edit:
    Well it's the gimmicks which make it go so fast, the stage can be long if you force it to be.
     
  14. Deef

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    Man they are pretty to look at. You know you're a classic Sonic fan when you just see a level map like it's some special painting.

    The levels I really like though, like GHZ2, MSZ and SPZ.... I would easily enjoy things 3 times bigger. They are seriously well designed levels. I think Emerald Hill, Aquatic Ruin, Carnival Night, Mushroom Hill... etc etc... are up there but there's always a flaw to find. I'd put my money on the table to say that the zone with the best level design of all the classics is something out of Mania. That alone is the thing about Mania that overrides all the nitpicking I could throw at it; some of its levels' designs are just better than I would have believed. Studiopolis is like... where is the flaw? It does everything right... so good to play in.

    QFT. Mirage Saloon is so good... it's too small.
     
  15. Effexor

    Effexor

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    I think I can forgive Mirage Saloon act 2's length for how amazing Knuckles' act 1 is. Honestly, that's probably my favorite level in any Sonic game.
     
  16. I've started looking through what's available at The Spriters Resource, and there appears to be some kind of unfinished GHZ1 layout in the game files. It's definitely much closer to Final than the October build (I don't believe we've seen the GHZ1 layout from the seven-act press demo), but this one features the 'original' giant ring locations that we saw in the previews.
    [​IMG]
     
  17. Dissent

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    Has anyone noticed the "It's showtime!" in the Eggman Boss 2 music intro?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLyKKXFe2HY

    In case you've forgotten...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lY1t6csgI7s

    You clever bastards :v:
     
  18. Alright, I've gone through and made a consistent set of level maps. There's a ton of great stuff to dig through on The Spriters Resource.

    The most interesting thing I've seen that hasn't been mentioned in this thread (as far as I can recall) is that there's a vastly different Lava Reef Act 1 layout in the game for some reason.
    Final:
    [​IMG]

    Prototype?
    [​IMG]
     
  19. Dissent

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    This is documented just a little bit on TCRF with a video. A lot of the layout chunks made it to the final and it's clearly unfinished toward the end. Gotta wonder why this version got left behind in the files.
     
  20. AkumaYin

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    Oh god I didn't even notice that until just now >-> Just as I was thinking about how pleasant it would be to have Megamix-related easter eggs in Mania.