Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by TimmiT, Jul 23, 2016.
For what it's worth, Sega Retro has a full list: http://segaretro.org/Category:Steam_Linux_games
Just read the entire thread. I wanted to absorb every post before responding with my own reply. I don't particularly know what I can say here that hasn't been echoed already but as a childhood and hardcore Sonic fan from the Megadrive days this is a dreamlike, miraculous game announcement that I absolutely love. I was elated when Mania was announced and super impressed with Studiopolis in particular. That zone is just divine. This is the game I've dreamed of since finishing Sonic 3 and Knuckles back in 1994 and it's on my radar as my most anticipated game ever. Spring 2017 can't come soon enough.
Thank you to Taxman, Stealth and PagodaWest for making such a dream game like this become a reality.
It's been a week and a half and the trailer is still magical.
Agreed, and I really doubt Taxman and Stealth would add a mechanic that takes away from the momentum based gameplay. They're all about capturing the original feeling as closely as they can.
I really don't see how the drop dash could change the momentum-based gameplay given that it's essentially a spindash. It's a spindash made instantly when you touch the ground, that's true, but still a spindash - it's something that you would take at most an additional 1/3 of a second to do otherwise.
The Homing attack breaks the momentum by doing exactly that: it breaks the momentum of Sonic by attacking a specific enemy within the range of the skill, and then it "bounces" so that the attack can be done in chain, essentially canceling all the inertia that you had. In some 2D games, the Homing attack becomes a "jump dash" if there is no enemy within reach, which serves as an instantaneous boost of speed (which in many cases is much more efficient than a spindash). It can be done even in slopes and other types of terrain where you normally wouldn't be able to do a spindash, so it essentially it "cheapens" the gain of speed.
It's something absurdly and completely different.
The wind up being jumping for Drop Dash doesnt seem to matter too much because you can do a short jump, and from what I've seen the height doesnt determine the speed of drop dash.
Also, you can only prime drop dash from a jump from what I've read. So rolling off of a hill or something doesnt count.
I really do strongly feel that Drop Dash will overshadow spindash. More so later than sooner.
I think the way some people see it is the spindash was a move that was balancing speed with the time it took to use. You have to come to a complete stop to use before you could start charging it (So what we got in Adventure wouldn't happen). For us under normal gameplay you only really used it at the start of the level, at the bottom of a quarter pipe, or right before a speed section to make your top speed even faster. Though I can see casual players relying on it more when they can't keep the momentum going, so they use it to get back up to speed. The drop dash on the other hand gives you that speed without the charge time. Instant gratification. I can see it possibly be abused by players just jumping and drop dashing repeatably to maintain that high speed while on a straight stretch.
On the flip side I can see why it was added. Kinda. In terms of movement options Sonic had the short end of the stick. Tails can fly and Knuckles and glide and climb walls. While Sonic had the insta-shield, it didn't really allow him to move any differently in the environment. The drop dash allows players to continue going fast without changing how he handles from the other characters (Compared to his speed increase in Sonic Classic Heroes). I suppose you can argue that Sonic already has the elemental shield abilities, and while they do allow for different movement possibilities, they aren't a permanent upgrade. The drop dash is a move that emphasizes his speed in ways that the other characters do not have (Thats assuming its exclusive to Sonic).
Was lurking through in thread for a while haha; just wanted to be like literally everyone else and show this some love! I have a lot of appreciation for the classic games as well so it's awesome to see this happening. The name is perfect, the trailer is amazing; I love everything we've seen so far.
I especially love how the level design seems to be taking cues from the best of both CD/Chaotix and 1-3; that is to say, it has the super open feeling of the former, but is overall more cohesive like the latter. And of course, Studiopolis is gorgeous. I'm even excited to see the reimagined zones. Sonic 3 had some of the more unique variations of classic level tropes so it's great to finally see it get some sort of love outside of direct rereleases.
Also, obviously I can't say for sure, but I think the idea behind the Drop Dash being mapped to "Jump + Hold Double Jump" is so the player doesn't have to break any of their aerial momentum. It looks like a really fun addition for Sonic, and I highly doubt that it will be broken in practice.
Soooo I just played the Sonic 1 Drop hack to get a feel of what the drop dash will feel like and it is not overpowering at all. It will help pick up speed quicker but you have to be skilled to take full advantage of it. Imo the insta-shield is far more powerful.
I don't know if Taxman or Stealth are aware but in Sonic 2 Retro Remix, Thorn implemented a move where you can go from a roll to sprint by pushing up on the Dpad. If this was put in Sonic Mania, doing speedruns would be a lot more fun. Going from the dropdash to uncurl sprinting would add a simple but rewarding technique.
I was mourning the loss of the insta-shield as well initially, but lets be real, even here at Retro there's only a certain percentage of people that actually know how to use it. Your average player knows it as "that crappy-ass-spining-air-strike-move-that-sucks-balls". And even in Sonic 3 it's real use is limited, mostly just for breaking whatever the S3 Orbinauts are called and cheesing through bosses, and sometimes getting a little extra vertical leverage. Every other game I've seen it in (Advance? Especially Advance 2) doesn't set up anything to use it with, and with that, there's no point to including it. Conversely, Mania's level design looks to be designed around the drop dash and it seems like a really fun little move that will help keep game flow going.
I just checked out some gameplay footage today for the first time since the trailer dropped and it's like heaven. I can't wait to play this game, it looks smoother than I could have imagined and it's just gorgeous and thoughtful all around. Spring can't come soon enough.
Oh yeah, since all eyes are on this thread I'm assuming... SEGA, PLEASE pull the trigger on mobile versions at the very least. Not going with Nintendo right now makes some sense, but this thing should be seen far and wide. 1, 2, and CD all played fantastically on mobile devices, even with just the touch controls. I'd love to keep this new game in my pocket and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
I haven't been this psyched for a new Sonic game since Generations. Seeing how smooth 2D Sonic can look really took me back to my early teens. And that drop dash manoeuvre looks like a sleek little addon.
I'll also second Steveswede's suggestion. Uncurling from a roll with a simple push of up would really be another nice little touch, as would being able to enter a spin whilst falling, which I think was featured in the Sonic 1 Megamix.
It should definitely come to mobile. That's actually my favorite way to play the classics now. 3&K iOS/Android would be cool but emulating it does the job, I never cared about the widescreen improvements. I actually prefer the sense of speed with less view of what's up ahead.
I can settle with the loss of Instashield, I wonder if there will be more element shields though. Maybe a shield that can allow a similar effect to that of instashield, only improved.
I'd be all for the Gold Shield making an appearance, as a "Homing Attack done good" (and with the penalty of dropping to the ground if no enemies are nearby, as in 3D Blast).
I had the opposite opinion of the hack to be honest... It was incredibly overpowered, but as I can't say how the real Drop Dash plays I attribute that to the hack.
I still feel the lack of an aerial ability is odd. Like I said before, regardless of the aerial wind up, the Drop Dash is a ground ability. Maybe if they sped up the downward speed the moment the Drop Dash is primed? Does anyone know if there's an audible sound effect to let you know the ability is triggered or a visual response? That's another thing that bothered me with the hack was no feedback to let you know the Drop Dash was activated.
There's a visual cue for it - when activated, Sonic jump animation changes to look more like a spindash charge, albeit still perfectly round.
As much as I love the insta-shield, if drop dash is a thing then it has to go. Gotta keep the simplicity, don't really want it to end up like modern's bloated move set
Sonic CD had two distinct ground moves with the Super Peel Out and Not Spin Dash. I don't see how two distinct air moves is convoluted.
On a tangent, is there any word on Sega attending PAX West?
it's not like that at all but it is a move that helps Sonic reach top speeds like most of the hacks. It feels like a classic move.
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