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Sonic Mania (Switch, PS4, Xbox One, PC...Netflix?)

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by TimmiT, Jul 23, 2016.

  1. Lapper

    Lapper

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    Sonic Studio, Sonic Physics Guide, Kyle & Lucy, Freedom Planet 2
    Ewwwwwwwwww.

    They are literally so off model, they have less colours than every other sonic sprite, and they suck :( :(

    /rant

    Mania to me (as someone fresh playing 90% of S3K's levels as well, so nostalgia luckily isn't clouding my judgement) is better gameplay than 3K. ...and 2, and 1.
    Even though I love 1 so so much, it's my baby. I guess if I rank it over my most nostalgic game I'm rating it fairly.

    Damn going to shoot it down cold like that?
    It's an interesting level set both inside and outside a huge mech, with the second act sending you though mini challenges you can take in any order. The enemies are fun to deal with and the hazards are unique and challenging. It's awesome. That's my opinion but it definitely holds merit in all of these aspects.
     
  2. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

    Classic Eggman art Member
    So many times you use HBH to refer to the Hard-Boild Heavies, that I want Hard-Boiled Orbinauts in the next game. Of course, a broadcasting platform should be used as their headquarters. :v:
     
  3. corneliab

    corneliab

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    For how replayable the game is, the length some people go to discuss small things that will only really trip you up on the first playthrough is pretty funny to me.

    I understood all that just fine, but somehow didn't consciously notice the choose-your-path gimmick and was getting exhausted from the constant bouncing around.
     
  4. Aerosol

    Aerosol

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    Sonic (?): Coming summer of 2055...?
    Ah.

    Your avatar brings back memories by the way.
     
  5. Dissent

    Dissent

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    This is probably due to your experience with the series. Dive in to some Youtube/article comments on popular non-Sonic related content producers and you'll see many people complaining about their personal experience of never being able to go fast without hitting an object, not understanding where to find secrets in most stages, struggling with most bosses, constant Game Overs, loathing the special/bonus stage difficulty, being unable to find the special stage rings...

    As Shigeru Miyamoto once told Argonaut Software during mountains of complaining during Star Fox's development; "You are not the audience." This game was made for newcomers and people that haven't played a Sonic game since the early 90's. Once you've learned the ropes of how a Sonic game works you're going to breeze through Mania.

    Am I the only person who hasn't gotten crushed once in their multiple playthroughs of the game :colbert:
     
  6. This is basically my opinion too. However you can amend the issue of Sky Chase by doing what I do in this game and doing Knuckles runs only now =P. It's turned into S3K for me all over again, since I think the Knuckles exclusive content is definitely good in this game.

    I guess if I had to rate my classics it'd look something like:

    Sonic Mania
    Sonic 3&K
    Sonic 2
    Sonic CD
    Sonic 1
    Knuckles Chaotix
    8 bit games

    I think Mania's level design is fantastic and I've never had a problem with automation in the game. A lot of the high speed sections actually have rewards for those who go slow (Studiopolis 1 has one, as does Stardust Speedway, as two small examples) and you are always in full control of your speed and what happens next. The levels being big isn't necessarily big in terms of sheer size (well, it is) but also because of how different and varied the routes are, and how they substantially alter your experience (especially Press Garden 2.) This game also gave me the best afternoon I've had with my family in a while, we were all laughing till we cried playing this game, it was an amazing moment that I think will keep this game ranked high in my next gajillion plathroughs of it. Simply put, I love this game.
     
  7. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJyMbboU1f0

    I only post this here on the off chance it's noticed by someone important who might be able to address this glitch.

    Don't let DSS destroy the PS4 leaderboards due to BS :v:
     
  8. TheOcelot

    TheOcelot

    Scooty Puff Jr sucks! Member
    I agree Mania is a bit too automated at times, especially in Titanic Monarch, Fly Battery act2, Lava Reef act1 and Sonic & Tails Mirage Saloon act1. This is also the case with Metallic Madness. There are multiple routes of course, but the level design-sequences just repeat themselves over and over, it's boring and lacks a variety of gimmicks. Also, a lot of the bosses are nearly impossible to master, i.e. you will always take damage no matter how hard you try, like in Mirage Saloon act2, Press Garden act1 and Oil Ocean act 1&2 etc.

    Level design automation is very frequent in fangames; "oh we don't know how to design a level so lets just to put in fast corners", or "the speedrunners will love fast corners". I love Team Mania and some of the level design in Mania is impressive without a doubt, but if it came to making a Mania 2 with all new levels, then yes I would be concerned about the level design.

    ..but aside from the unfinished story (which really bugs me) and the aforementioned bosses and level layout issues, Mania is a gem. The first three levels are fantastic and then the design becomes inconsistent from Flying Battery act2 onwards.

    For me, I rate my favorite classic games as:

    Sonic 3&K
    Sonic CD
    Sonic Mania
    Sonic 1
    Sonic 2

    It's all based on everyone's own preferences of course, but Sonic 2 has a quite few things I don't like (accept for the two-players vs mode which is awesome - so glad it's back in Mania):

    - Sonic controls are slippery which makes some platforming sequences more tricky than they should be.
    - Enemy placement in a lot of the zones is pretty bad.
    - Super Sonic controls are even more slippery. So much so that I hate playing with him, so I don't bother getting the chaos emeralds until Metropolis zone.
    - Tails can't fly.
    - Sonic 2 was rushed to meet the release window, has a lot of cut-content and a lot of levels really don't fit well together.
    - Visually Sonic 2 is the worst looking classic Sonic game IMO.
    - the game (with the exception of the last few stages) is very very easy, little challenge. Level design is often too open (not enough slower-platforming sections) and the slippery controls feel like the game is trying to force you forward and discourage exploration. Then there's a massive difficulty spike when you get to Metropolis.
    - I don't particularly like Sonic's sprites in Sonic 2.

    I prefer the classic games which have a stronger element of platforming, exploration and better controls, such as Sonic 1, CD and 3K. You need the right balance between platforming, speed and good control. Sonic 2 is the weakest.

    Don't get me wrong Sonic 2 is still a good game, but it lags behind the others.
     
  9. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    I actually loved Sonic 2's sprites, in fact I play the Sonic 3 Complete mod that includes those sprites in it over the Sonic 3 sprites. I also felt like Sonic controlled great in Sonic 2 and thought that it's levels looked far better than Sonic 1's, with the exception of GHZ, I always thought that looked better than EHZ.

    But yea some of those enemies are placed rather dickishly I'll give you that (looking at you Metropolis Zone)
     
  10. Ok the other ones I can kinda understand (Oil Ocean 2 just requires you to take your time and Oil Ocean 1 boss is just a matter of can you quick kill him or not) but Mirage Saloon Act 2 boss is pretty easy to no damage.

    Fang just loses to spindash since he almost never shoots low enough to hit you crouching, Bean just requires you to jump over his bombs and hit him, and Bark is the easiest of the three because his first action before anything else is a small jump where he's vulnerable, and once you know this it is almost impossible to actually get hit by him. MSZ2's boss is actually like the easiest Hard Boiled Heavy in the game.
     
  11. Laura

    Laura

    Brightened Eyes Member
    Eeh, I wouldn't really agree that Sonic 2's controls are far worse than the rest of the series. He plays the same for me across all the games. And I agree that Sonic controls poorly while doing platforming, I feel he does across all games.

    The enemy placement can be irritating but nowhere near as bad as CD. And I really like CD, but the enemy placement is horrendous. And yeah, Metropolis is an absolutely awful zone :v: .

    Sonic 2 was rushed, definitely, but I still think the game is excellent despite it. I wouldn't be able to tell it was horrendously rushed until I researched it.

    I think Sonic 2 looks lovely visually, and some of the more unique stage aesthetics, such as Mystic Cave, Casino Night, Oil Ocean and Aquatic Ruin contribute to this. I actually think Sonic 2 has by far the best and most original stage aesthetics in the series, with Sonic 1 and 3 being your typical fire, ice, Mario castle, desert, etc levels (overall). Still excellently done, but not as well done as 2. CD has some great concepts, but also has duds like Tidal Tempest and Collision Chaos, which are just poor versions of Sonic 1 levels.

    I think Sonic 2 is way harder than 3AK man :v: . One major advantage I give to 3AK over 2 is the more balanced difficulty.

    Sonic's sprites in 2 are just a better version of his Sonic 1 sprite, which is legendary :v:
     
  12. Hez

    Hez

    Oldbie
    I've finally gotten a chance to play through and beat the whole game a few times.

    GREAT game. Does it feel like a continuation of Sonic. In my opinion, no. Had they not recycled levels, it may have been more of a progression. I do understand that the recycling was likely due to resources (easier to fix up old graphics than make fresh) and direction from Sonic Team. I'd love to see a fully fleshed out brand new game. Besides that, it felt more like a really really polished fan-game.
     
  13. Laura

    Laura

    Brightened Eyes Member
    I really wish people would stop calling it a fangame. No one would be saying it if the devs didn't start out as fangame makers and ROM hackers.

    I don't see people calling NES Remix a fangame or Mario Maker for example. Hell, Sonic CD has blatantly remixed levels from Sonic 1 (Collision Chaos, Tidal Tempest etc) and no one calls that a rom hack. No one called Sonic 4: Episode 1 a fangame or ROM hack either, despite being far less original than Mania.

    Sonic Mania is, obviously, on a completely different level to any fangame. It's really disrespectful to the dev team to call it a fangame.
     
  14. Mastered Realm

    Mastered Realm

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    So the leaderboards are not shared by the 4 platforms?
     
  15. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    He said it felt like one, not that it was. But I can see where he's coming from. Not that it takes anything away from the game for me though, I have full respect for the team and what they've done. I'm sure Hez does too.

    In some sense it is a fan game though. I mean they are fans of the series and they made a game of that series. In it's most literal definition it could be considered a fan game. That almost makes it even more awesome IMO though. I can't think of any other renowned franchise that has allowed for something like this to happen. And they showed that it can work.
     
  16. Burrobot

    Burrobot

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    Glad I'm not the only one who was surprised! I loved the original Metallic Madness (I'm probably alone there), and I was really caught off-guard when it turned up after I'd previously dismissed it as impossible. Quartz Quadrant went out the window with Lava Reef, after all... :<

    I honestly thought they'd go with Scrap Brain, but it kinda makes me happy they went with the 'evolved' rendition of said stage appearing in CD. It was always a better stage, IMO. :D
     
  17. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

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    The only way that Mania feels like a fangame is that for many years now it has been the fans (including the ones behind Mania) that have been perfecting and developing the Classic formula. Everything from the clever references, revisting existing levels, creative gimmicks, huge level design that encompasses speed and platforming seamlessly, CD-inspired soundtracks and 32-bit esque graphics (and sprite-rotation too, I guess?)... those are all things that I've come to recognise from fan works more than the the actual Classic games. But I've no doubt really that Mania is exactly on the track of what Sonic would have become had 2D Sonic continued on to the Saturn and beyond. Fans like Taxman and everyone else working on Mania picked up exactly where SEGA left off. The only things that wouldn't have existed are those to do with playing on nostalgia and the clever Easter Eggs, because they wouldn't have been necessary if the series didn't take a two-decade break after SK.
     
  18. Lapper

    Lapper

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    Sonic Studio, Sonic Physics Guide, Kyle & Lucy, Freedom Planet 2
    I get no fangame vibes from it whatsoever.
     
  19. Socknic

    Socknic

    Someone Too Tough To Beat Member
    I've played the majority of the noteworthy fangames and hacks produced over the last few years, and I must say, I really don't understand how anyone can imply that they come close to rivaling Sonic Mania's quality. Fangames and hacks tend to suffer from some combination of the following problems: weak level design, poor graphical fidelity, unoriginal music, performance issues, and inaccurate physics. There are certainly exceptions, but they are few and far between. I say this with no disrespect. Creating a game is no easy task. In fact, I normally wouldn't hold an unofficial game to such a high standard, but it's unavoidable when others are doing the exact same thing.
     
  20. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    Oh I mean this game obviously exceeds those levels. I'd say the only ones that can hold a candle to something even remotely official are the Sonic Before/After games and Sonic Time Twisted, and those still fall short for various reasons given the fact that the teams making them are very small and they don't have the same backing as something official.

    Mania feels like a fan game to me in a way because it feels like it has heart. It seems like something made out of love that only people who really admire the series could create. Like all the obscure call backs and level combinations/remixes. Sonic 4 for example did call backs in the easiest, most surface level way (except that aquatic ruin boss fake out in Ep 2 was a nice touch) almost so they could just be like "here's not death egg leave us alone." This they knew their stuff and they knew what kinds of little things we'd love to see. Like Silver Sonic complete with 8 bit sound effects. That's genius.

    I hope other companies take chances like this with their franchises to those who have proven themselves. Let Platinum make Star Fox. Give some competent fans a crack at making a new 2D Mario game. Pass the torch and get some fresh, passionate folks on these projects