Sonic Mania (Switch, PS4, Xbox One, PC)

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by TimmiT, Jul 23, 2016.

  1. Cooljerk

    Cooljerk

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    Anyone else notice the Sonic Spinball call backs in Studiopolis Zone?

    In all my playthroughs of CPZ (and I've played through it a bunch already) I have yet to see Robotnik do a chain at all. He will, at most, drop a single dud puyo.

    You could beat the dude without yourself doing a single chain. It's one of the easiest rounds of Puyo Puyo ever. I can't stess that enough -- it's significantly easier than actual puyo puyo. You can win simply by matching colors, you don't even need an actual strategy.
     
  2. Josh

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    For those of you annoyed by the [inlinespoiler]Mean Bean Machine[/inlinespoiler] boss, does the Hydrocity boss bother you for similar reasons? It also [inlinespoiler]completely switches the mechanics on you without warning[/inlinespoiler], it just doesn't change into a clearly-defined different genre.

    Oh, I was passive-aggressively continuing to tag my spoilers since nobody else was, but derp, it's officially Wednesday here! Have at it!

    I see where this would bother you if you don't like Mean Bean Machine, and I can see it being CONFOUNDING if you'd never played a puzzle game before. But I loved it, it's one of my favorite bosses. In the way you guys are annoyed by it, I think the way it's just SUDDENLY SOMETHING ELSE and it doesn't teach you anything reminds me of when I was a kid, and I got Mean Bean Machine thinking it would be a Sonic platformer. I had _NO IDEA_ how to even do anything or what the rules or point of the game was!

    Or course, these days I'm a big fan of Puyo (put a lot of time into Puyo Puyo Tetris), so I'm definitely coming at it from that sort of "fan's" perspective. I thought it was an excellent shout-out, and yeah, Eggman's AI there really is awful. I spent a long time trying to set up a chain and NOT setting off any beans, and he lost without any interference from me before I could complete my setup.
     
  3. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

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    In the Hydrocity boss, you're still avoiding hazards while attacking the boss. It's a much smaller shift.
     
  4. I knew I remembered those sounds somewhere... The Press Garden Act 2 boss uses the same jumping and shuriken sound effects from Revenge of Shinobi.
     
  5. RikohZX

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    I pointed that out before, but looking him up specifically, he's Heavy Shinobi, so it all makes sense now. :v:
     
  6. Aerosol

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    The Hydrocity boss isn't a shift into an entirely different genre, with it's own rules and mechanics entirely removed from the game you're actually playing. And also I did nothing but match colors the first go around, because I didn't think the boss was seriously just a Puyo Pop match and it wasn't until half my screen was black puyos before I realized what fuckery was actually transpiring. Died. Had to dig deep and remember how to build atleast a 3-chain the next go around to avoid the brunt of Eggman's 4-chain (yes 4) and then yes, he eventually killed himself.

    I. Hate. Puyo. Pop. Almost as much as I hate genre-shifts. I'm glad you guys enjoyed the shout-out, but I would've enjoyed it a lot more if it served as punctuation to an actual Sonic boss. My mind won't be changed on this; I think it was one of a few good ideas in this game with piss poor execution. Actually the most egregious example of "Good idea, bad execution", to be honest.

    Despite my misgivings, this is still one of my most favorite games this year though, so there's that.

    Also there's a spoiler-free thread for that express purpose.
     
  7. Pengi

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    In the + - D.A. Garden mode, the song   is called + - ANGEL ISLAND ZONE CUTSCENE.  

    But yeah, it is really weird that + - Angel Island starts off in the ocean, before Eggman even gets the gem. And Knuckles is just chilling out at the start of his story, so he doesn't even seem bothered about it.  
     
  8. Lord Kanti

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    Okay. After getting the special ring three or four more time, I have to say .. They're EXTREMELY fun, but how Sonic controls is crazy! It's like trying to control Donkey Kong or Bowser in Mario Kart SNES! It's even harder to control when you jump. >_< It's like he's strafing, or something!

    Anyone have any tips on getting control overSonic in the special stages? I can't even get the 2nd Chaos Emerald because I can't get used to it.
     
  9. Cooljerk

    Cooljerk

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    How in the world is it not? It plays absolutely nothing like Sonic. It has more in common with the driving stages in Ghostbusters on the Sega Master System than a platformer like Sonic the Hedgehog.

    I don't think anybody is trying to change your mind on whether or not you enjoyed the segment. Different tastes. But your claim that it's poor execution is something I very much disagree with. It was executed very well - it's simple enough for any beginner player to eventually cheese through, as the AI is easy enough to accommodate even those who aren't good at Puyo Puyo. Your complaints, that you flat-out don't enjoy the Puyo Puyo gameplay at all, is precisely why you're not a very good judge at the execution of the boss. For you, any puyo puyo inclusion is "poorly executed." However, there is a very real difference between them tossing in the Robotnik boss battle from Mean Bean Machine -- which would have absolutely been a poor execution that likely would have ground the game to a halt for an excessive number of players (and in fact, I suspect most would never get past it) -- and the boss battle they put forth in Mania, which is adjusted in difficulty accordingly.

    Random enemy nature I guess is the reason you happened to get a 4-chain. But that's definitely not common at all. In several of my play throughs, Robotnik would outright kill himself before I could even execute a chain. It's very much a battle where all you have to do is survive, unless you have horrible luck or something. You say you lost 3 lives before getting through the boss. I lost 7 lives in Mirage Saloon due to flat-out rolling off the tornado. Weird stuff happens in Sonic.
     
  10. Aerosol

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    Ok I'm not going to equate "hold down a button and try not to suck up bombs" with "play puyo pop". These two things are not equivalent. They're just not. And you missed when I said it honestly doesn't matter what puzzle game they threw in there, it would've been poor execution regardless and I'd be saying the same thing. I hate puyo pop, but I would be equally miffed if they suddenly threw you into a game of Puzzle Bobble (which I love and am pretty good at) or even Columns and said "beat this different game to beat this boss now".

    Your arguments of "well it's easy he kills himself anyway" isn't an argument in your favor anyway. If he supposedly kills himself without much player intervention, then it doesn't even function well as a boss. It's nothing but a nostalgic callback to the time Sega rebranded Puyo Pop as a Sonic game which, while fun, would've been an even better callback if you actually ended up playing a Sonic game to complete the level. Here's another idea, Eggman drops you into another arena where he's still playing Puyo Pop, and trying to crush you with giant puyos. There's puyos on the floor that change color, and if you make him drop a matching pair, they disappear and he gets hit on the head with with a giant black puyo, while the puyo that was on the floor gets replaced with a different color one. Maybe only do this four times instead of the usual eight and hey presto, a Mean Bean Machine themed boss where you're still playing an actual Sonic game.

    You don't challenge a player at the end of a level with a completely different game. It'd be like if at the end of a world in a New Super Mario Bros game, it made you play a game of Yoshi's Cookie to beat the boss. Not a Yoshi's Cookie-themed boss, but an actual game of Yoshi's Cookie. Or if the Pokemon League Champion in Pokemon Pick A Fucking Color challenged you to a game of Tetris Attack instead of an actual Pokemon battle.
     
  11. Not working for me. Is there a particular order you press them in, or is all you do is just hover over No Save and press X + Square + Options at the same time?
     
  12. Cooljerk

    Cooljerk

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    They are not equivalent. They are, however, completely different genres from the standard gameplay. Reel in your hyperbole if you don't want to be called on it.

    I most certainly did not miss this, and I fail to see how acknowledging your taste changes anything I said in my previous post -- the point being that your blunt "any deviation is by default poor execution" stance leaves no room for nuanced discussion of the boss at all. If you're going to claim "poor execution," you should focus more on the "poor" descriptor.

    He's the second major boss of the game. I expect him to be a push over. Within the context of ramping difficulty, I expect such a boss to be exceedingly easy. Especially given the genre shift.

    Yeah, or like making your chart the ocean and fish in Zelda. Or take a quiz in Earthworm Jim. Or go through 3 shmup levels in Turrican. I mean, games like Mario Galaxy certainly would never turn into a racing game -- complete with vertical flight stick-style controls -- for a course or two. Classic games never do this! Why could you imagine if a huge action-RPG game had challenges where you played a card game instead of actual fighting. So silly.
     
  13. muteKi

    muteKi

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    The real problem about the puyo boss is that there isn't a follow-up Sonic Eraser (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgHo2FApgMI) boss/mode anywhere.
     
  14. null1024

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    I'm iffy on the idea myself.

    On one hand, I love Puyo Puyo, and it's a brilliant callback to Mean Bean Machine. Super nifty stuff and it totally made my face light up.
    On the other hand, it's hilariously easy to the point of absurdity (like, if you manage to die to the boss and not to the game glitching and killing you after, I don't actually have any words -- you could probably just sit there and slowly stack puyos in a dense pack formation without really caring about matching and Eggman will still probably die first, it's easier than any Puyo Puyo first stage by far), negating the point of it being a boss.
    in fact, as far as I can tell, Eggman's AI seems to play worse as time goes on and it makes ludicrous mistakes like making a big tower on the third column from the left

    and being a total genre shift that's never used again, it couldn't possibly be harder since the game can't expect the player to be any good at Puyo Puyo

    I can't (and won't) hate it, but it is an inherently flawed boss that ends up being just a weird throwback outta nowhere.
    It can't be a more interesting boss as-is because then people who have no experience with Puyo Puyo and have no intention of learning how to play it will get brickwalled for no reason. People who aren't into Puyo will be bewildered, people who are into Puyo will get a brief smile and then be disappointed at the sheer ease of it.
    like, if you're decent at Puyo Puyo and regularly play against actual people (and win), you can just do like a quick five combo with stairs or something and kill the boss asap (and even if the game used Puyo 2 rules instead of Mean Bean Machine rules, the boss is dumb enough that it wouldn't counter your chain)
     
  15. Okamikurainya

    Okamikurainya

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    For everyone who keeps harping on about Angel Island being in the water: Have none of you ever played Sonic 3? O_o
    It starts out in the water, and you literally fly in through the same spot, this is all while the Master Emerald is still in place. As for why the Miracle Planet is visible from it, Knuckles obviously just planted it next to Mirage Island. :colbert:

    Having played Sonic 3 Complete so much, it really is disappointing me that Super Sonic recycles so many of Sonic's animations. I'm guessing they did it on purpose as a sort of homage but they really missed the mark with that one. :(
     
  16. D.A. Garden

    D.A. Garden

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    Anyone else find the Flying Battery Zone Act 2 Spider Boss to be absolutely garbage? I've never spent so long trying and failing to understand the mechanics behind a boss. I get that you have to hit him into the wall spikes, but he barely receives any knockback, is completely invulnerable during his shooting phase, and those spinning poles do nothing but hinder your opportunity. The amount of times I jumped off of a pole to hit him, only to go through him is ridiculous. I've beaten it only once so far, and that was through, what I felt like, pure dumb luck. I kept staying really close to him, revving a spindash and then jumping immediately after release, hoping he'd bounce into a wall spike.

    What's weird is that this was the hardest thing for me during my first playthrough of the whole game. Nothing else came close. I'll give my own analysis of the game at some point, but I just feel a bit annoyed that this one boss has caused me nothing but problems and I can't see anyone else who's had the same problem. Am I missing something here?
     
  17. Linkabel

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    I always assumed the island was in the ocean because the Death Egg was weighing it down.
     
  18. Lapper

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    I had no issue with it at all, figured it out first run. You need to hit the bumper ball part only, once I knew that it was great - Challenging, but great.


    P2 Tails cannot attack him at all though which is sad!
     
  19. RikohZX

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    It's moreso the principal that after raising it up from the ocean at the end of 3&K (and since the Master Emerald is still in Hidden Palace Zone, the 'bad ending' doesn't count unless we go with 'timey-whimey shenanigans'), it's suddenly down in the ocean again and Knux is just chilling with no fucks given nor does this seem to be a problem of any sort whatsoever. The Death Egg was what was keeping Angel Island down to the ground, and by the time the Death Egg really starts lifting off in S&K, the Master Emerald had already been swiped. And now suddenly Little Planet is chained to it with seemingly no context in the manual or the game itself.


    Leave it to Sonic fans to be anal-retentive about continuity. :v:
     
  20. MastaSys

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    When you can play with Sonic you can see the sea in the background because the island is not flying. The Death Egg is on Launch Base and later in Lava Reef.
    When you play with Knuckles the island is flying as all you can see on the background is clouds. The Death Egg is not on Launch Base nor Lava Reef.