Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by TimmiT, Jul 23, 2016.
Ha! This image is pretty much on point.
Okay I'm about to be really nit-picky right now. I want Taxman and Stealth to bring back the grey shields and red flickies when you play as Knuckles. The red flickies are so cool looking. I remember being somewhat disappointed when I saw the blue flickies for Knuckles in Sonic 2 Mobile.
The animals don't fall under the bridge when you rescue them. They instead arrogantly 'hop away to safety' over the bridges!
The change is too much! My hype for this game is now ruined. RUINED FOREVER!
(My only honest criticism, and I'll be terribly blunt about this... is to 'please' minimize the re-use of stage layouts as much as possible in future acts. What you've done with Green Hill looks really, really great, but I still want to play as much of a 'brand new game' as possible, lest this be the last time Sega lets you do this. Which I certainly hope it isn't. If I don't get at least 5 entirely new zones out of this game, I will confess that I'll be honestly a bit let down. Fortunately, I have great faith in the team here, and will still put good money into it no matter what. Day 1.)
"What is Sonic Classic, BtS or AtS for $500 Alex" :specialed:/>
This is not a big deal. It feels like a fangame to me cause this is the kind of stuff (both aesthetically speaking and apparently level design wise) we've been doing here for ages. If anything that's a compliment. It just so happens, however, that few fangames have wowed me like they have other people, so my enthusiasm for this is about the same as it was for most others. I'd pay money for any of the fangames I mentioned if Sega ever decided to sell them for whatever reason, but hardly any of them have really wow'd me.
I mean, are we really getting our titties in a twist over the word fangame? That we as a community have helped each other get to the point where our own material is good enough for SEGA is a good fucking thing. My personal feelings on what's been done in our community (which are overall positive might I add) are separate from that and do nothing to diminish that accomplishment. If people say it feels or looks like a fangame, that's something to be fucking proud of. I certainly am. Just because those aesthetics or level design patterns aren't to my taste doesn't mean I think the game is a worthless fan-made piece of shit. Jumping Jehoshophat.
I also took some video of Studiopolis. I wanted to take some video of Green Hill and the boss fight but a rep there said that we weren't allowed to take video so I just ended up playing them.
I know cynicism is rampant among this fanbase, but seriously. It's because of you people that Sonic Mania is even a thing, and that we see any Classic Sonic at all. I don't think criticism is bad, but the Classic fans have far more sway over the direction of this franchise than they ever have before. Shouldn't we be acting a little more humble here?
If Mega Man 9 had been released today, would people say that feels like a fangame too? I mean, that series did the same thing Mania's doing. New Super Mario Bros. and Rayman Origins are pretty much the same deal, just with non-retro graphics. It's not like a group of individual fans are working on this, either. Headcannon and PagodaWest are actual registered companies, not unlike Inti Creates.
I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't understand the difference between what Mania is doing, and what so many other franchises have done before. Whereas those games get comments of the series "returning to form with a love letter to the fans", Mania gets a reception of "SEGA has run out of ideas and publishes amateur work now." If SEGA had made Mania instead, with none of the game changing at all, would it really feel that much different? 15 years ago, nobody cared about WHO was making the game. It was the game itself that mattered. I miss those days.
I think the problem is that the fangame word summons images of flaws we've seen in past "fangames" that held them back from matching the original titles, even if many of them either did match them, came close, or even in some cases surpassed them (Some of Megamix's mechanics were so brilliant I'm almost disappointed to 'not' have them in Mania! Luckily, they were developed by our old boy Stealth here so I'm not the least bit bothered.)
I have always been a proponent of the argument that the single most important element to the brilliance of the classic trilogy was Yas's absolutely phenomeonal 2D map designs. The engine was important, the visuals and music were memorable... but Yas has been irreplaceable and his loss may be the single reason no game after 3&K was ever 'quite' the same.
To some, there may be that much less conscious fear that Yas not being involved still means this game will end up feeling like an imitation. The members who argue this fear may not even realize this is what they mean, but I think it centers of an anxiety similar to this idea (that the levels won't 'feel professional or right'.) This is all an impulsive and I think misguided sentiment that stems mostly from an irrational fear of disappointment and maybe even a slightly xenophobic idea of "if it's not developed by the japanese team members, it's not true canon." or some such.
Luckily, we've got 2 people who understand the classic games literally better than anyone else on the planet outside of the original teams. Hell, they know them arguably better than the original developers may even recollect their work now. Stealth printed out maps of every 2D stage we still use to study them himself. Tax built an exact engine from scratch and made it a near pixel perfect exact replica.
To put one final bit of perspective on this... Naka, Naoto and Yas (who were of course only 3 of half a dozen or so team members) were actually all under age 30 when they completed Sonic 1 and had worked on games for less than 10 years. Tax/Stealth have been involved with Sonic hacks/games/coding for 'more' than 10 years. They've been working with these products longer than the original trio were even 'in' the industry when Sonic 1 was first made.
In short, trust them. They've got the money, resources, knowledge, official support, and raw experience to handle this. Sega literally handpicked the most qualified people alive today to do this. I 100% believe that.
Really enjoyed your playthrough over the others that are out there. Not only are you competent, you show off areas that I haven't seen yet, but most importantly you didn't fuck around with the projector section for like a minute.
I noticed in the direct feed footage that the extra life theme is the one from Sonic 3. Nice choice, thought it feels a little incongruent with the invincibility theme being a new composition and all.
Course, it could just be a gussied-up placeholder, considering I doubt they expected someone with ten minutes to play at a kiosk at Comic-Con to be racking up tons of extra lives. Or I could just be mishearing it entirely. :v:/>
There's some obvious choices not to use, at least.
Emerald Hill/Hill Top for S2, like you said, and Chemical Plant, since that stage has already been remade previously. Also, I'd argue that Aquatic Ruin would feel too similar to Sky Sanctuary, in its ruin-yness at least.
As for S3K, Sky Sanctuary has already been remade in the past, and Angel Island, while not being quite the same as Green Hill, is close enough that it'd feel redundant. I think personally from S3K I'd like to see either Ice Cap or Hydrocity. Hydrocity with elements of Labyrinth/Tidal Tempest/Aquatic Ruin worked in could be really nice, in fact.
And with CD, if we're assuming a level from it is going to be included...hm. Palmtree Panic is just a touched-up Green Hill, and Studiopolis already covers the city and casino/carnival tropes of Collision Chaos/Stardust Speedway...Maybe Quartz Quadrant? Given some spit and polish to make it more obvious that it's like, a cave system and mine, it could be pretty cool. Have a bit of a Mystic Cave feel to it and such. I would suggest Wacky Workbench/Metallic Madness, but I think they'd want the final "Eggman's base" level to be an original stage, most likely.
Anyhow, those are just my thoughts, I guess. I'm sure they'll at least do right by us and not choose a bunch of stages with similar tropes like Generations did.
This was really well put, and I'm sure it applies to somebody.
I trust them. I know it'll be a great game. But every gameplay video I've seen has shown me that it leans towards a type of Sonic experience that isn't my favorite. Most fangames tend to do this, and this isn't by virtue of them being fangames. It's just a tendency I've noticed in the community over the years. This is a gross oversimplification, but let's say most fangames tend to play and flow more like Sonic 1 or CD, whereas I prefer the feel of Sonic 2 or 3K. That's not a "quality" or "pedigree of the developers" assessment in the slightest. I don't think Sonic 2 or 3K are objectively better games, they're just my preference. Sonic Mania, thus far, seems to hue more towards Sonic 1 or CD in it's play and flow in the original levels than it does Sonic 2 or 3K. Thus, I'm not plotting to sacrifice my first born at my Taxman and Stealth altars just yet. Cause Sonic 1 and CD are my least favorite Sonic mainline Sonic game, which still gets them into my top 10 games of all time, might I add. So yea, seeing a similarity in Studiopolis' design language to Sonic 1 and CD (which is a design language I've seen often imitated with varying degrees of success in the fangame community) isn't exactly going to light my fire. I'm happy, sure, but I'd be happier if Studiopolis was more like a 2 or 3K stage. And most fangames don't play like 2 or 3K.
Yes, I know we've only seen one original level, which is why I haven't written off the game (seriously I said I'd be buying 3 copies regardless. The fuck I gotta say to prove I'm optimistic?). Maybe I'll see something I like better later on, that'll get me more excited. But as of right now, I'm just happy for Tax and Stealth, and happy that some decent 2D Sonic game is coming out soon. Fan-game or otherwise.
Just noticed this morning, the item monitors all appear to have a pretty-much-illegibley-tiny "SEGA" logo at the bottom. Cute detail! = D
I really hope this has physical release. I hate 'collecting' digital copies of Sonic.
They should sell it in a throwback Saturn style case :specialed:
Lol thanks,to tell you the truth I was a little bit confused for some moments there but I did want to explore more areas that other players weren't doing.
Though the level design really reminds me more of Sonic CD than something like Sonic 4 so that's a good sign.
Was just looking at Casshern's video and I thought Studiopolis played a lot more like Chemical Plant than CD.
(I am not a CD expert)
edit: Yes before you say it, I'm well aware even the video description says "this is like Sonic CD" hahahah
It reminded me of Stardust Speedway more than anything, but I can see where you get Chemical Plant from. Stardust Speedway is probably among my favorite CD stages though.
edit: I hadn't even noticed the video description till you mentioned it. That's pretty funny.
I am more of a S3&k guy as well. Sonic CD is intriguing but I don't replay it as much as the other classics. The platforming in that game was on acid and by that I mean it was all over the place. I don't think all of the stages will be like that. I hope not but if they are I guess I can live with it. Studiopolis zone's whole purpose is probably to call back to Sonic CD just like GHZ is paying tribute to Sonic 1 for obvious reasons.
I'm guessing that it will be, as remastered Sonic CD*, digital only (only my speculation, but I would tell that only "big one" Sonic game planned on the end of 2017 will have physical release). I understand what you're feeling, but on the other hand - for me it's not too relevant anymore, since PC releases are (recently) always Steam-only (which is making DVD inside completely useless, due to mandatory activation and updates).
*at least I didn't heard about physical release
I look at my collection of floppy games from the 90s, and while virtually none of those floppies work anymore, the manuals sure are a thing.
X-WING even came with a novella.
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