Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by TimmiT, Jul 23, 2016.
There's also the background in Flying Battery Zone, which's pretty mode-7-like.
...Oh. That makes sense XD
Got rekt. Thanks for the heads up :v
Alright, I've finally got the chance to look up the gameplay videos for Mania and I'm floored. What a gorgeous-looking game. There's… there's so much love being poured into it; all the little jokes and extras crammed into the background, like the wanted posters in Mirage Saloon to the SegaSonic Popcorn Shop reference in Studiopolis. There's a celebration of Sonic that hasn't been present in Sonic games in, it feels like, a long time.
Watching a bit of footage of the GHZ2 boss is pretty satisfying - it looks fun! Can you imagine: a fun boss battle? It gives me strong Level 1 Rocket Knight Adventures flashbacks. Auto-scrolling challenges showed up a bit in 2D Sonic, so it's good to see it acknowledged again here; it feels like the trope has mostly been forgotten about for modern titles.
Ah, to actually be confident in a Sonic game.
That is one glorious title theme.
I've trained my mind like a Jedi so that I can spot out that one transitional frame in the title animation at full speed.
Also, as someone who kept on listening to what music from Mania was released on loop, I had no clue the title screen music was already handed out.
Slightly unrelated, you peeps need to see this: [Linky]
Even Sonic Megamix put in a less obnoxious homing attack. There is no need to create extra targets like that in 2D to tell the player "Oh! You can use homing attack here!" It should just be implied...just like enemies with spikes on top implies "DO NOT JUMP ON THIS." Granted it's going to take some time to de-program this from my gameplay strategy as I've played Sonic 4 Ep 2 countless times. Playing Sonic Time Twisted non-stop is helping me with that.
When I first saw the Mania intro, I immediately thought of Mode 7. This makes the Sonic 4 intros look like complete dumpster fires. It's basically been a year and it has neither grown old nor boring. I'm all about the rotating bitmaps! Polygons are meh.
Having played Sonic 4 Ep 1 yesterday, I just noticed that the Mania title theme sounds like a remix of the Sonic 4 title theme...
Or am I just hallucinating?
Quite right you are, mistaking orchestral masterpieces for actual instrumentation... :P
(Aside from both having high notes they are nothing alike in the slightest).
FOR FUCKS SAKE SOMEONE GET RID OF THAT FILTER
I AM AN UNFUNNY SHITSTAIN orchestral masterpieces I HAVE NO UNDERSTANDING OF THE SONIC ENGINE
I remember when this first came out was at first was like "What dong mixes perfectly to this!" until I heard the whole thing and realized it was original! We need more of these! I demand Mirage Saloon!
I don't hear anything like that....but it does give me some 3D Blast Genesis vibes.
I raise you: One Chemical Plant Zone
The punched up bass in Chemical Plant along with the heart rate monitor beeps at the start really make it sound that much better. I wasn't a fan of Chemical Plant's theme, but the Mania one sounds pretty good.
OK, so this Metro interview with Iizuka regarding Mania and Forces has been going around, and people are latching onto this bit:
Does that direction involve having more (Genesis) Sonic games made outside of Sonic Team? Because that's honestly the most important takeaway from Mania's potential reception in my opinion.
Sonic Team doesn't know or want to know how to make a proper Genesis Sonic game, while Sega of America and Taxman/Stealth/PWG do understand and are delivering on that front. If Mania's success means SoA will collaborate with Taxman and co. and/or other talented studios to make retail 2D Genesis Sonic titles (or even take a crack at a 3D Genesis Sonic) without Sonic Team's involvement (outside of maybe the supervisory role, I guess), then I hope Mania's reviews and sales delivers that opportunity to them on a platinum-plated platter.
Unfortunately, Iizuka and company think there is a conflict between 2D Sonic games and 3D Sonic games, in that fans of 2D in principle won't be accepting of 3D regardless of quality. They do this, while fully aware that Sonic 4 exists and was widely panned. I'll also go out on a limb and say that probably more than 90% of ALL Sonic fans would absolutely adore a truly great 3D Sonic game (we haven't had one yet), as well as non-Sonic fans. Its all anyone has wanted from Sonic Team since the 90s.
These guys do listen to fan criticisms...while at the same time, have not in 20 years learned their lesson about the importance of a well-constructed core gameplay and identity. Iizuka in particular, seems to care a lot about Sonic fans, but simultaneously spends so little time deconstructing the franchise's biggest problems and fixing them at their core that he hasn't a clue why his efforts don't ever truly seem to work. There are obvious reasons for this, summed up simply as they have no idea where to go with Modern Sonic from here. They actually tried fixing Modern Sonic when they designed Sonic Lost World (which I thought was actually a good idea after Generations "boost" formula seemed to be a dead end conceptually and technically...and still is) but LW was a failure as well, so again they can't do anything but throw stuff at the wall and hope people like some of the stuff they've done before while adding new gimmicks. The same exact thing they've been doing since 2001.
I don't want to call for Iizuka's head. Doesn't seem appropriate. But if Mania does as well as it seems it could, SEGA should really seriously plan for a fresh infusion of development talent in the main series games, as well as a reboot of some kind for the franchise in 3D.
I get progressively more and more irritated in reading Iizuka's responses in interviews. The 3D titles are his babies, and he clearly wants them to be in the spotlight. He claims to understand what the older Sonic fans want, yet he opts to not utilize their suggestions. He tries to market the 3D titles to little kids, which is not a bad thing in its own right, but he knowingly does it at the expense of older fans. Then he goes off and says that he is uncertain how well Mania will be recieved. How? The game is not only precisely what fans have been clamouring for, but has been met with great fanfare since its reveal. I just don't get it. Good news is that not only will Mania outsell Forces in quantity, but probably also be one of the best selling Sonic titles in recent history.
That part really came off as rude, I thought. It's starting to feel like Iizuka holds a good amount of resentment for the fanbase.
I honestly can't stand Iizuka. I think he's done a terrible job with the franchise and he always comes off as resentful of the fans of the franchise. I was completely unsurprising when I learned he was responsible for Mania having old levels rehashed again. I think he just doesn't get it. I'd like to see someone else at the helm of the franchise.
Think you guys are reading his words wrong. I think he's saying that he doesn't know how well Mania can perform outside of the established fanbase, because unlike Forces, they didn't do a bunch of focus tested bullshit to prove it has market appeal. Pretty sure he knows Mania is getting heavy praise and reception, but that doesn't always translate to good sales and public image.
This is how I took it as well.
Iizuka has definitely had more of a vested interest historically with the 3D games, and he has shown irritation towards the fanbase as well, but I don't think that is really the cause of this statement. Original era Sonic has not had a major release in over 20 years so it is understandable that a company would be nervous about Mania's performance. As much as I dislike Iizuka's vision and direction for the franchise, he IS the one who gave the green light on this game during a time when Sonic Team has been struggling.
This may be a very good thing though. Many assumed in the past that Sonic Team already understood how important a return to the original era gameplay could be for the franchise but clearly they do not. Iizuka in particular has always perceived Original era Sonic as having little potential for relevance or impact in Modern gaming. This could be lesson#1 in correcting that.
They NEED to get through their skulls once and for all that a game like Mania, one with focused and fundamentally sound gameplay as the foundation, is timeless. Sonic in the 90s did follow some trends, but revolutionized one all his own with a unique design that hasn't been replicated. Sonic's design and intent is still unique 26 years later but it hasn't be done justice for nearly that long.
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