Sonic Mania (Switch, PS4, Xbox One, PC)

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by TimmiT, Jul 23, 2016.

  1. Okamikurainya

    Okamikurainya

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    Im worried about the ratio of old and new zones as well, but not for the reason I see most are.

    I'm looking forward to the game and am happy to play the old levels being reimagined, this game is Sega reluctantly letting go of their own inability to go back to what made Classic Sonic so Classic and the reimagined levels are simply a trade-off to allow that.

    What I'm worried about is Sega seeing Sonic Mania as a success and jumping for joy, telling everyone that the reason for the game's success was the old levels rather than anything else that is so awesome about the game. This has already happened and I think Sonic 4 may be to blame, though correct me if I'm wrong. Sonic 4 was marketed as a return to form and the release of all the "old made new" bits of concept art were pretty loudly well received. We then got Generations which was a critical success and Sega seems to have attributed all that success to two things: Classic Sonic and Reimagined Levels.

    So what do we get? Classic Sonic and reimagined levels in heaps, Classic Sonic in Sonic'17, and I fear that this will be a future trend, that Sonic Mania 2 will yet again be mostly reimagined levels if Sega doesn't have it loudly shouted into their collective brains that the reason for the game's success is because the game is good and made well and so there should be a new content follow up.

    Geez, it's like Deadpool teaching hollywood that it was a success because it was R-rated rather than on its' own merits. :argh:

    Rant over. :v:
     
  2. Deef

    Deef

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    I also dislike a big part of Sonic CD's level design, but I was remarking earlier how clearly Studiopolis was keeping the player flowing in exactly the way Sonic CD didn't. Gimmicks, including slow ones, are a good thing. Verticality is a good thing. Both are great things really; just more tools to lift a level from dull to fun & interesting. CD's levels are annoying not because of these 2 factors, but because of the overarching thought behind their design.

    So looking at Studiopolis, for a person to focus on some gimmicks that slow things down is surely missing the forest for the trees, because Studiopolis is already very clear at not mimicking the clunky, unguided design of CD levels. I thought that was really apparent.


    There are good parts of CD's designs that I miss in the Megadrive titles too, namely, the reduced hand-holding and greater freedom. What I saw in Green Hill and Studiopolis appears to be more similar to the Megadrive style -- paths that combo easily, sometimes too easily, fairly directed, etc. -- but now a bit more CD-esque with bigger chunks of air and freedom (in GHZ) and more pathing options being more often thrown at the player (in SZ). And I have to say that's pretty much exactly the kind of direction I want.

    Yeah, I agree with this concern. It did appear that they received the message after Sonic 4 Ep 1, but maybe not.

    If there's a Sonic Mania 2, and I hope there is, I don't want more rehashes. :( One as a hidden Easter Egg? Sure. But not more.
     
  3. I dunno, I always enjoyed just fucking about in CD's levels. It's almost like I'd play S2 for a quick blast through, and CD for a fun explore the physics n chill kind of thing. Somewhere between the two would be good, although 3K is king in level design for me. The only thing that bothers me to this day in CD is time travel loading. It should have been instant :)

    I thought the level design in Hidden Palace was great & inspired, so I'm confident in how it's gonna turn out.
     
  4. V-Pixel

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    Personally I'm also a little disappointed by the fact that there'll be more remixed levels than new ones, but the reason why I'm saying only a little is because of a few factors:

    Firstly we don't know the exact ratio of old to new, for all we know it could mean there's one more old level compared to the total amount of new ones. Although to be fair there could be much more than one, we don't know either way just yet.

    Secondly we don't exactly know what "more classic remixes" may mean exactly. To explain myself, based on the official Playstation Blog post about Mania we know that only Sonic 1, 2, CD, 3, and & Knuckles will each get a remixed level. A lot of people, including me speculate that each of them will get one level in Mania, meaning five old ones, but there's no way that that there will be only four new zones, since Taxman has already mentioned that Mania will be a longer game than Generations, which had nine zones total. So either the amount of returning levels is inconsistent between each classic game, or alternatively each of the five classic games does in fact only get one returning stage each, and the rest of the remixed levels could be the Sonic 3 multiplayer courses remade as fully fledged out zones, just like Stealth said he wanted to do in the proposed Sonic 3 Remaster. Of course this isn't confirmed anywhere to be actually happening, but it's still a possibility worth taking into consideration.

    Lastly do keep in mind that Green Hill is the tamest remix, and that the rest of the returning zones will be treated like real places that changed over the years, as said by Taxman in this part of the interview. For all we know every classic level (besides Green Hill of course) could be drastically changed up, to the point where they feel like brand new zones, even from an aesthetic standpoint.

    Basically what I'm trying to say is: chill out, be rational as well as patient until we get to see more than one act of two zones. So don't jump to conclusions this early when we've seen so little of the game.
     
  5. Deef

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    Pretty much agree with all that, though at times I think Sonic 2 has better levels than 3, sometimes. The problem is so that they're over so fast you don't get a chance to even notice. Mainly it's when a level sticks to the high-mid-low open approach, like Emerald Hill or Aquatic Ruin. I like that stuff. Sonic 3 kinda ditched that to make more of the giant ant colonies.
     
  6. Retroman

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    Huh, so that's another reason why there's the time travel cutscene when travelling to the past/future. It's basically a loading screen disguised as a cutscene, due to the 8 seconds of updating different tiles, palettes and layouts to the ram since Sonic CD was made for the Sega CD add-on for the Megadrive. Then obviously the ports kept it in since it's part of the game :)
     
  7. Felik

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    As much as I know you can actually cut those cutscenes short by pressing jump or something.
     
  8. You can in the original, not sure about the remake... I thought they just shortened it slightly, but I could be wrong.

    Instant time travel would have been awesome, just a flash of the screen or something. I know it's short but the sequence really bugs me and breaks my flow!
     
  9. big smile

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  10. Stealth

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    Sonic Mania, HCGE, Sonic Megamix, SonED2, [...]
    With respect to Ohshima-san (and Naka-san), I get the impression that his statement regarding Naka-san and its feasability was probably just blind faith speaking rather than any basis in known technical fact. Though, the faith would be well-deserved anyway. It might have been possible if they approached the port to CD the same way I went with the new Megamix engine considering the amount of space available in ProgramRAM and how much data could still be left in WORDRAM (and this is basically what they did with the newly-written Special Stage, but the Sonic 1 code was written to run on the Genesis side anyway so it was just plain simpler to keep it there). Seems like the best chance

    Also, knowing what I do about the state of Mania's level roster makes the general reaction to the ratio seem pretty ironic in a way. I think everyone has the best interest of this project in mind, and had you the knowledge we did, you'd find much of your worries less justified. I see where you're coming from, though
     
  11. steveswede

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    Is there any confirmation on how many new levels we are getting or is this being kept secret under a NDA?
     
  12. VectorCNC

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    Well that is reassuring. I love it when a member of the triad pops in. I've never been worried about the ratio, honestly. Even if all the zones were re-imagined classic zones, we could still expect the second act of the zone to be basically entirely different than the first, a la Green Hill Demo. So at a minimum there will be 50% new styled acts. Then when you consider that the first half, while having the same sprites, is basically a new layout, that counts for something. Also, Green Hill being the most "tame", and with what we know of the zones having changed over time... It sounds like arguably at minimum 75% will feel subjectively different, even if only 50% were objectively different.
     
  13. Slingerland

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    No Don't Ask
     
  14. Okamikurainya

    Okamikurainya

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    Fixed. :specialed:

    We know that there are more stages than Generations, so if that doesn't include the boss stages, we have a lower limit of more than 9 zones, IIRC.
    As far as we know, they'll be focusing on Sonic 1/2/CD/3&K. 1 Zone each would be 5 remastered Zones so it's probably more than that. Then again, we've already seen elements of fusing various Zones with Greenhill being an amalgamation of Greenhill, Emerald Hill and maybe Marble Zone (mostly cus of Batbrains). So we know that one Zone isn't necessarily limited to the gimmicks of its' original and may reach through multiple games to form the remastered stage. Optimistically, I'd say 10 remastered zones with around 5 new zones. I'd also suspect that the Zones will be sprinkled throughout the game so you won't be necessarily going Sonic 1 to Sonic 2, rather new Zones may act as a mental breath of fresh air between the remasters. But hey, that's just some informed speculation.
     
  15. Slingerland

    Slingerland

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    Nah, mine was better.

    :emojis:
     
  16. TheOcelot

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    I'm getting the impression that the other reimagined zones are going be so different from the original versions, they will probably feel like new zones, which is fine by me.
     
  17. Having played through just the first act of Green Hill Zone, this is definitely the mindset to have and few people seem to get.
     
  18. TheInvisibleSun

    TheInvisibleSun

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    Though I feel the same way in that regard, I'd feel a little annoyed if any of the remixed zones are ones they've done before in either version of generations. As much as I love Chemical Plant and Sky Sanctuary, it would piss me off to see another level remix opportunity in this game wasted by either of them.
     
  19. Sparks

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    I don't remember if I mentioned this before, but I wonder if they're going to drastically reshade the S3K levels to fit Manias art style more. Those zones are practically an entirely different art style from 1, 2 and CD (and even then there's some differences, but S3K is the biggest difference).

    Fingers crossed for Launch Base and Death Egg. :v:
     
  20. Zephyr

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    The question burning on my mind is: will each Act have different remixes? Not expecting an answer, just thinking out loud.