Sonic Mania (Switch, PS4, Xbox One, PC...Netflix?)

I actually question whether Sonic X-Treme would have been any good though, or at least by modern standards? It looks like it would have been all right by the standards of the time from what I've seen but it looks cruder than Sonic Adventure wound up being.

 

I honestly think that Sega has resented the classic Sonic fanbase forever. If Sonic Mania outsells Forces I can die a happy man.

 

Of course, because we expect quality and get mad when we don't get it. They just want to churn out a turd that can make a quick buck and we don't take that quietly.

I also kind of wonder if it has to do with how Sonic is perceived in Japan. They don't like Sonic, and if the game is being made by a Japanese developer it's very likely that none of the people working on the game have the heart and passion to do what was done in the original games. They just do as much as is required to get it through the gate. That also might explain why they're so keen on changing how Sonic plays all the time, because they just don't like Sonic.

 

So... Sonic Team doesn't like Sonic. This actually explains everything. LOL

 

If Sega truly resented the classic Sonic fanbase they would have taken an ax to the fangames a long time ago, much less hired fangame devs and a fangame composer to make a new classic-style Sonic. I think they view the classic Sonic fanbase as a necessary evil at the absolute worst, because Sonic would be dead in Europe and North America by now if it weren't for the classic fanbase being so strong. That's why there's a detente on fan productions regarding Sonic that Sega does not permit for their other properties.

I think Dark Sonic is closer to the mark here, the Japanese dev team doesn't love Sonic and they're just trying to get a new game out to make money; but they would rather do something else other than Sonic. Sonic is not an icon in Japan the way he is in the Western world. In Japan he's just... A thing. This is why Sonic games don't often feel like Sonic games, because the Japanese devs that love the character are mostly gone.

EDIT: Part of me feels that the reason why Mania was commissioned was to give Sonic Team a kick in the ass too. "Step up your game or we will give Sonic to the Americans." I think the reception and sales of Mania and Forces will be quite interesting..,

 

Well Dimps made Sonic 4 and some of the more meh spin offs, they primarily make fighting games. But yea I imagine Sonic Team is like Initech from Office Space. A bunch of bored drones doing what they need to to not get fired, while someone is siphoning money away from the company in order to not have to work again.

EDIT: I'll be nicer, but Iizuka still makes dumb choices.

 

So why does "Sonic Team" exist then? If they really are a bunch of drones, or would rather work on other games (hence the multiplicity of half baked ideas)?

Sonic Mania is proving that a few outsiders who love the franchise can have remarkable success, and will likely be more profitable. So why base Sonic Team in Japan, if Sonic is just a "thing" with little love, over there? Sega is "just a business", right, hence the unpolished "turds" the push out the door. Well, if money is what they covet then why not restructure Sonic Team. Move it back to California, and put the talented fans at the creative helm. This means more money and more love for Sega??

 

Also Sonic Advance 1 2 3, Rush, Rush Adventure and Colors DS. They aren't bad at all. Sega is their client, it's them who have the final say. It's all SEGA's fault, actually.

 

Idk, Japan is strange. It would make sense but they don't seem to trust anyone outside of Japan. Then again, Boom was a result of an American company and that didn't do so well, but a lot of that might have been due to it being forced on the Wii U.

And yea I know you're right. It's just an easy target. Had he not made so many decisions I hated I wouldn't say anything.

 

I feel like Iizuka holds some sentimentality for the series. It's probably his baby to him. He likely sees "artistic merit" in the stuff his team makes, even if it fails to hold up under any other rational person's critical lens.

 

I thought Iizuka is based in CA now?

I don't think Sonic Team hates Sonic. There's just a couple of things at play.

First off, the team has changed dramatically over the years. Hirokazu Yasuhara was the driving force behind the level design of the classic games. He left after Sonic R and it shows. The series changed quite dramatically under his departure. It's only really with Colors did Sonic Team start to go back to the platforming of the classics.

Second, for a long time, Sega milked Sonic hard, forcing Sonic Team to release multiple games every year even when they weren't finished (e.g. Sonic 2006). There was also a greater emphasis on focus groups leading to things like guns in Shadow. Again, it's only since Colors that they dialed back the pace.

Third, Sonic Team used to work on properties like Nights, Burning Rangers and Giant Egg. But these days, it seems to be exclusively Sonic (and PSO, although a lot of the people that work on Sonic don't work on that). It wouldn't be surprise me if ideas like Silver and the Werehog were other game concepts that weren't approved by Sega and so were folded into Sonic.

Finally, Iizuka has talked in the past about how he prefers to reinvent Sonic as he doesn't want to make the same game twice. It's a laudable aspiration, but it doesn't always work out, which is why we get games like Lost World.

So I don't think Sonic Team hate Sonic. It's just that they've been pulled in different by directions by staff changes, corporate mandates and different visions.

 

If the one single entity responsible for the direction of the series doesn't have a consistent direction, then why have the entity exist? what potential harm could come from letting personnel drift around the company to experiment with new ideas, and letting others who want to do actual Sonic-based things with the franchise pursue those ideas? The practice of constraining the people you put the most faith in makes even less sense in Sega's current situation because their current approach hasn't really been very good. We've had a lot of misses get released over the years; why bog down the Sonic license with them?

This is why Mania is so hotly anticipated; because TaxStealth
A. Have a plan for their slice of the series, and
B. Actually want to execute on it and develop a real Sonic game,
they get to use the Sonic franchise as an asset instead of letting it restrain them. Hopefully Sega learns from the inevitable success of Mania.

 

It would be dumb because what I said is the truth and therefore not up for argument. Love ya, hoot.

Assumption Hoot.

Despite all the talk of "Sonic isn't liked in Japan," they've sure as hell put a lot of advertising for Mania in that country. We saw the subway train, the cafe, the posters when we went back in November. I haven't seen any of that in America.

 

Nah, it would be dumb because what I said is the truth.
https://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/aboutseasons.html Love ya too, hoot.

Eh, from what I can tell the astronomical definition is more often used in the Americas, whilst the meteorological definition is more common place over here. Not that it really matters; you've managed to rope me into discussing fucking classifications of seasons when we should be talking about about about that fancy new Sonic game.

You win by default, hoot.

[Inspoiler]I don't understand "hoot".[/iSpoiler]

 

I don't recall any games that were going to be in the style of the classics. S3&K was something of a magnum opus for the original Sonic Team, and they wanted to move on to new projects afterward (which I can completely understand). It was in the 00's that SEGA really started treating the series as a cash cow (rather than it just being one as a result of its popularity).

While I am hoping that Forces turns out to be a good game, I'm also really hoping that Mania crushes it with critical reception, fan reception and sales. After Sonic '06, Sonic 4 and Sonic Boom (among others), SEGA deserve nothing less than to be publicly humiliated. It'll be cathartic for classic fans, too. Proof that we were right all along.

 

Didn't Sega approach Taxman and Stealth to produce Mania? So I don't think Sega would be publicly humiliated if Mania did better than Forces. It would just show that Sega was wise to hire Taxman and Stealth and give fans what they wanted. I don't think even Sonic Team would be humiliated as they have had a big hand in Mania. Plus Mania and Forces are aimed at different audiences.

 

I REALLY do hope that GameXplain didn't leak official rehashed levels...I just seen a screenshot of their YouTube spilling beans via video upload with a title citing "3 MORE CLASSIC ZONES REVEALED" (the video was deleted before a cover image populated). If that level reveal was true and from an official source...then I'm disappointed by the choice of tropes and reuse of a zone we've already got another rendition of!!! I'm hoping, that it was an April Fools kind of thing, and that it was a mistake based on false news or rumor...

If that list just so happens to be true by some long shot chance, then: you can pick more varied tropes! Don't resort to typical or "easy to go to" levels! That's too predictable and becomes redundant, even if you do revamp and overhaul them! Please pick zones that aren't of the exact same trope style.

Not trying to drop spoilers, or seem like a madman going based on falsehood, I just want to express my deepest concerns due to the nature of such, if TaxStealth is still following this thread. I'll take it with a grain of salt...but I'm very much disturbed.

 

I'm not sure whether Tax/Stealth approached SEGA or vice versa. Lola said "[Tax/Stealth] pitched the game to