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Sonic Mania Plus SPOILER THREAD with UNMARKED spoilers!

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Harmony Friends, Apr 25, 2018.

  1. Gestalt

    Gestalt

    Sphinx in Chains Member
    The switching mechanic is excellent. That way you have all these different play styles without having to worry so much about which one is next. The core of 2D Sonic remains untouched, but gets slightly more varied. My only complaint is that their abilities, even though highly praised, seem a bit cheap. Take Tails' propeller flying for example. Very creative. Hammer drop and Ray's fly 'n' dive-style? I immediately knew when to use them and when not. That's not a bad thing of course, but seems different from the way they originally conceptualized abilities. Dropdash almost closed that gap.
     
  2. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    I wouldn't call them cheap, they're definitely different though. They may have the potential to be a little OP in someways but I think that comes as a result of them being extra characters, but even then neither of them are as OP as Tails IMO. Ray has the most potential but is harder to master. Mighty has a ton of protection but lacks the ability to fly making it harder to correct mistakes (Mighty is almost fittingly like an easy mode for Sonic). Tails' flight can be used anywhere at any time to reach anything. Sure there's a limit to it, but it's a lot easier to get around and to fly back up to places you fell off.

    But I think each character has a place, and while Mighty and Ray might not fit as snugly into the game as the original trio we've also had years and years to get used to Tails and Knuckles. Mighty and Ray we've had less than a month. I think in time we'll figure out how to use their abilities in creative ways similar to Tails and Knuckles. Of course it doesn't help that for the most part this is like a Knuckles in Sonic 2 deal for Mighty and Ray. The game wasn't built for them. Ray can get around anywhere but Mighty I can think of like, 4 levels where he has special routes (Angel Island, which doesn't even count really, Green Hill Act 1 Encore, and Lava Reef Act 1 in both Mania and Encore mode, and Mirage Saloon Act 1 Encore, because that's a level that was more built with Mighty and Ray in mind).

    Also doesn't help that both Mighty and Ray seem to have ripped off Mario moves

    :v:
     
  3. Boxer Hockey

    Boxer Hockey

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    Honestly, the character switching is such a natural next step I'll be disappointed if it's not a standard feature for any possible future 2D Sonics. My ideal future play-style is just Mania mode that lets you pick your main character and your partner. Like Encore mode with a little more control.
     
  4. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    Yeah, I was a bit surprised that they didn't take the chance to add a more Sonic Advance 3-esque character selection system.

    Now that there's even more characters into the mix, it feels just a bit odd that Sonic+Tails is the only possible combination in the main game.
     
  5. Linkabel

    Linkabel

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    I was thinking the same thing because Encore mode feels like the test ground for an evolution of 2D Sonic. But then I was wondering how that would affect the level design and some of the mechanics of the game.

    For example, I found encore mode to be easy because you can switch characters. But the mode becomes 100 times easier if you stick to certain combinations like Mighty and Tails. It's so easy it sucks the fun out of it because the game no longer throws anything at you to make it exciting.

    So would the level design become harder than what we got in this game to accommodate every combination you can do? Would this break the flow (like it happened in Sonic Advance 3) that people expect from 2D Sonic?

    Or would the characters be divided in teams (Sonic & Tails or Mighty and Ray for example) and have each have certain levels of difficulty?

    Then there's the lives system. Do they go back to it or do they stick to what they had in Encore? But as people are realizing is that losing a character is not a big deal since the game gives you plenty of chances to get them back through the bonus stages.

    I know that people play at different levels when it comes to certain genres, but 2D and 3D Sonic games have always been easy to beat.

    And so the challenges I see from making a Sonic Mania sequel with this gameplay is that it might turn out to be harder than usual that people might be turn off by it or that it might become a bit too easy.

    Saying that, I hope Sega gives the Mania team the chance to try to tackle this dilemma in a new game (*coughs Fall 2021 plz *coughs).
     
  6. Zephyr

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    One of the reasons I love the Classic games so much, and one of the reasons I hold their design in such elegantly high regard, is how seamlessly so many different aspects of player agency are blended into the core gameplay experience. If you want a change of pace, you can simply enter a Bonus Stage or a Special Stage and play a different game for a bit, potentially acquiring rewards in the core game, without having to quit out and sift through a menu to manually select the different game. This contrasts with a lot of the 3D games where these changes in pace and genre are either mandatory, placed in a specific sequence, and don't really give you rewards to use in the core game, or are largely only playable by quitting out and selecting them through the menu.

    Encore Mode feels like a genuine step further in this direction. Being able to manage a party of five characters, having a clever new twist on the Lives system, and working out who to use in which Zones. It all blends together in a way that makes "choosing your character" an organic part of the gameplay itself; and given the difference in aptitude each character has for each level, this also means that choosing the difficulty is also an organic part of the gameplay itself.

    I'd love to see the template set by Encore Mode be the main mode going forward. I'd still love a Mania Mode sort of thing as well, though, for those who just want to play it in the more traditional way. In such a mode, I think freely selectable combinations of two characters ala Advance 3 would be a must.
     
  7. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    ...I'd say it's more of an evolution of Chaotix's Combi system, nonexistant lives and all, so... perhaps a Chaotix remake is next? :specialed:
     
  8. Gestalt

    Gestalt

    Sphinx in Chains Member
    Until the OST dilemma from Sonic 3 & Knuckles becomes obsolete, yeah, ...whatever it is, it better be good! Revisiting Sonic 3 & Knuckles or Chaotix would be ideal for now imo.
     
  9. Boxer Hockey

    Boxer Hockey

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    I agree that it does make the game much easier depending on your choice, but I think I still see that as an extension of the current system. Players wanting the recommended challenge will know to choose Sonic, and from there the difficulty scales downward depending on your choice of partner (or choice to not use one at all).
     
  10. Sir_mihael

    Sir_mihael

    DON'T TRUST THIS MAN Member
    Yup. Adding to this - I remember Breath of the Wild had some crazy OP healing foods later on (might have been Hearty Truffles + basic shit) that you could stock up on and not have to worry about any tough fights.
    Decided not to use them in the end, as it was killing the fun of there being any kind of risk - had way more fun taking it to the edge.

    Alternatively, Mega Man 10 also had challenge tied to characters (Mega Man = Normal, Proto Man = Hard, Bass = Easy) and I feel that worked really well.

    [Something about Monster Hunter weapons changing your difficulty curve also goes here] You get the idea. I think it's just cool to have the option there anyway. Each character feels great in their own way.
     
  11. XCubed

    XCubed

    Will Someday Own a Rent-A-Center Oldbie
    Thoughts/questions after playing over the past couple weeks:

    - I discovered that the best possible character combination is Mighty and Tails. Worst character is Knuckles unless you really NEED to enter his special areas.

    - They could have called Encore Mode "Sonic Mania 2: More Mania" for all I care. They still would have gotten my money!

    - After finally beating Special Stage 1, 2-6 were a cake walk which I completed on the first try! SS 7 is a bitch. Mach 2 is still the superior speed

    - The new Stardust Speedway Metal Sonic Boss wasn't as hard as I thought after all the complaints I read about it.

    - I'm confused as to who has access to the Heavy King Lava Reef boss now. Does it depend on route?

    - The incomplete Emeralds ending with Eggman tiptoeing away was cute and hilarious!

    - Is the HBH crew suddenly "Good" now?

    - My only disappointment was a complete lack of Egg Reverie, let alone the Egg Panicky pinch mode. The All Emeralds ending ALMOST makes the lack of it worth it. Ok, I'm also dissapointed that the Titanic Monarch robot itself wasn't carried further out then what we saw at the end of Metallic Madnes Act adn and the Zone itself. Like.....it needed to DO something. All this setup for a giant robot that ended up never doing anything is strange.


    This is the game Sega is going to tell us to play if we beg them for more Classic Sonic type games. They will say "GO PLAY SONIC MANIA PLUS." I mean there's a lot to experience which differs between playthroughs.
     
  12. Yep. Both routes are accessible to everyone now, so you can choose who you want to fight.
     
  13. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    But, did you go into the boss already knowing how to beat him beforehand?

    And how did you beat him? Did you spam Sonic's post-hit invulnerability?
     
  14. Covarr

    Covarr

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    Am I the only one who thinks Mighty/Ray is better? I've found that his ability to roll out of a glide and his SMW cape-style control have a MUCH easier time avoiding enemies and hazards in the air than Tails, who can build up dangerous amounts of vertical momentum in both directions.
     
  15. Overlord

    Overlord

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    For what it's worth, I went in completely blind and got him on the first try, though I did start the fight with all 5 characters available and a decent number of rings; and finished with only Tails left, and no rings. My tactic at the time was to rush in for a hit then fly off to the top right until the laser was done. By my second run at it I'd already seen someone do the Spindash attacking and was able to finish him off easily.
     
  16. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    I think Mighty and Ray is a more fun combination but Tails is easier to explore and backtrack with which makes him particularly good for hunting down Special Stage rings.
     
  17. Zephyr

    Zephyr

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    I always have one ground dude (Sonic or Mighty) and one air dude (Tails, Knuckles, or Ray). Early levels I go Sonic/Ray, because the Drop Dash and Air Glide let me blast around easier. Later levels I tend to go Mighty/Tails, because of the increased defense and Tails' ability to better explore more cramped areas.
     
  18. Felik

    Felik

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    Do people really make tactics and compose character tiers to play Encore Mode most efficiently? :v:/>
    I just get all the characters and hit question mark monitors first chance I can cause constantly shuffling characters is way more fun than sticking to the most efficient pair.

    Anyway I've beaten encore mode once. Was loads of fun.
    One thing I really disliked about Encore mode and Mania as a whole is a total lack of fun no-bullshit no-timewasting bonus stages. I can't believe Mania team managed to make an alternative to blue sphere that is even more unfun and shitty. The only thing that's good about new bonus stages is great music track. Everything else (wonky physics, repetition, slowass combi-catcher) sucks about them.

    Well OK blue spheres are not really bad as in themselves but I really wished for a good and fun bonus stages and still never got them.
     
  19. Covarr

    Covarr

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    That's gonna be my next playthrough. It is more fun, but I wanted to learn my way around Encore Mode first.
     
  20. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    Yup :v: Although sometimes I go just full on random, but I really love Mighty so I try keeping him for as long as possible.

    Mostly for me it's keep Mighty and, unless I'm ring hunting, avoid Tails.