Sonic Mania Plus SPOILER THREAD with UNMARKED spoilers!

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Hinchy, Apr 25, 2018.

  1. 360

    360

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    Excellent post as per usual from you dude. Yeah I think it's unrealistic to expect stratospheric sales here and we should all probably be realistic and reasonable - but Mania Plus doing quite well considering that Mania did in the charts and so on is a reasoned perspective given it'll likely perform well at retail (that impulse-buy budget price point) and comparable releases like the original Sonic Mania and Sonic CD also charted and sold exceptionally well. It's probably impossible to accurately calculate/predict sales but the game performing quite well relative to similar releases is a reasonable expectation.

    With Mania Plus dropping tomorrow and then the Sonic Comic-Con panel - in addition to the new episode of Adventures - it's an awesome week for us Sonic fans.
     
  2. Sorry but I too expect something on that zone, 150~200k. 250k at most.
     
  3. KingOfBunnies

    KingOfBunnies

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    I'm so glad Sega is using Nathan Barnatt. I love him as an actor and this brings everything full circle from Keith Apicary, CEO of Sega.
     
  4. Laughingcow

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    I'd say 100k is a fitting estimate in that I doubt they've printed that much. As things stand, physical is for the hardcore. Everyone else will just upgrade their digital versions.
     
  5. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

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    The patch is live on Xbox One.

    Encore Mode is not yet available.
     
  6. Vangar

    Vangar

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    I'm streaming the Australian release that came out today on twitch right now: https://www.twitch.tv/vangar3

    EDIT: well, trying to.

    EDIT2: Live on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kbf853AasDI
     
  7. Beltway

    Beltway

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    Something intended specifically for the hardcore is what something like Mania's Collectors' Edition is for. Sega is clearly not handling the Mania Plus re-release in that manner, which is where my contention lies.

    There are plenty of options Sega could had explored if they felt a physical release of Mania would only be bought by a niche audience. Make the Mania Plus re-release exclusive to a certain platform. Make it exclusive to a certain retailer. Decide not to produce a physical re-release for a specific region. Bundle it alongside an existing game. Designate a very limited print run. Give it a premium price. License it out to a smaller publisher (like Limited Run Games), etc. The list goes on.

    But Sega's not only treating Mania Plus as a mainstream release (wide distribution); they're adding the artbook, hologram slipcover, and reversible cover in every copy, and this is all being put together to be sold under a budget price. The only corner Sega could be said to cut with this re-release is the lack of an Xbox One release in Japan....which is not only an arguably negligible loss considering how unpopular that platform is in that region; but is also somewhat mitigated by Sega going a further extra mile with the Japanese release, since JP PS4/Switch releases will also be receiving the game soundtrack and a region-exclusive reversible cover.

    You don't go this far for a retail re-release if you're making it for or think it is only going to sell to a diehard audience. (Same goes for producing tie-in products like the Mania Adventures animated miniseries and today's uploaded retro informercial, although those are clearly supplementary materials that don't have as much of a public reach.) Mania Plus with the publishing format Sega is taking here is clearly being produced for and aimed towards a general audience who may or may not have bought Mania already--not just for (retro) Sonic purists willing to throw down additional money for multiple/physical copies.

    If --all of this-- was intended specifically for a enthusiast market, then it goes without saying that whoever in Sega responsible for handling Mania Plus's physical re-release clearly fucked up somewhere and is wasting a significant amount of resources in the process, which I'm pretty skeptical of suspecting is what actually happened.

    But hey, that's just what I think. We'll see how things unfold in the following weeks/months.
     
  8. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    Its surreal playing as Mighty in an official way after all these years. I love it. Currently playing through Mania mode as Mighty & Knuckles (charging through the blue spheres stages now).

    What are the chances that this new Ray Sprite set will lead to mods of Sonic 1 - 3K?
     
  9. Laughingcow

    Laughingcow

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    My judgement is partially based on the current situation with Octopath Traveller.

    http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2018/07/square_enix_issues_apology_after_underestimating_huge_octopath_traveler_demand

    Keep in mind that Square has already established a new division focused on making games like this.
     
  10. Sir_mihael

    Sir_mihael

    DON'T TRUST THIS MAN Member
    My local store's getting Mania Plus in today, so I'm just waiting on the text to say "It's in motherfucker" before I go storming there after work.

    The wait has been a tough one but hot damn. We finally made it.
     
  11. Oh wow. And I picked up my copy of Octopath Traveler last Saturday. This demand overload is getting out of hand, like that time it got so bad with Splatoon and some nut stole a truck from GAME.

    Anyway, on a related note. I pointed this out on the Retro Engine Modding Discord, some sprites have new palettes in Plus, for some reason.
    [​IMG]
    Roller now has an ugly red with peach highlighting.
    [​IMG]
    And Shiver-Saw no longer has its unique palette. Now it's the default yellow and silver the items (Such as rings, checkpoint, monitors, ETC) use.

    Even in videos before release I noticed this.
     
  12. The reason for this I speculate is so that they can change these palettes in Encore Mode. Anything using unique/non-standard shades wouldn't conform to encore palette changes.
     
  13. HedgeHayes

    HedgeHayes

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    I've already got my pre-ordered copy at GAME an there was some little kid enthusiastically asking his mom to have Mania Plus while checking the package on the shelves. Seems like he was already a Sonic fan, because he was interested in Sonic funko pop toy too, but thing here is that Mania being on store shelves really works as a market strategy and more people will be buying it than just collectors only because they notice easily it exists.

    I'm a bit frustrated by the fact SMA part 5 isn't up yet, neither the DLC nor the update patch is available yet at Steam, and what I already have is a game for a console I don't own yet. Ranting aside, I love the physical edition, and my favourite part from the artbook is the Yasuhara-style concept art, which looks like he really did them. Another interesting thing is they included the illustrations that appeared in those little booklets they gave on hand last year and many of us couldn't get. It also looks to me like this book is the DLC for the 25th anniversary C&B book, and that's neat.
     
  14. CollectiveWater

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    Regarding sales: I'm not gonna make any predictions because who knows anything can happen--people rarely come super close with their estimates. But the one thing I will say is that if the physical version of "Plus" has a chance of doing well it's going to be the Switch version that will allow it to do so, and that's the version that should be advertised the most. (PS4 might do all right/well, too, but I really think the Switch version likely will be the best-selling SKU since it has a good install base that's going to grow a lot by the time "Smash" is out, it's the most kid-friendly platform/the one parents probably buy most games for at this point, having a portable version is a very nice bonus, the novelty of having a cartridge version of a retro-style game is fitting, and so on.)

    This will probably get buried since it's release day, but I figure now's the time to post about it since there will be even more activity once the patch/Encore is live on all platforms:

    There's been at least four confirmed instances of music cutting out in Encore. (I'm assuming if I watched all the streams that are currently available on Youtube/Twitch I'd find several more.) It happens twice in this video on Youtube here and here, it happened to Blue Blood here, and it happened to BlazeHedgehog here.

    Blue Blood's video from Hydrocity where retractable doors fell down on Ray and pushed him beneath inside a wall that Blue Blood then got stuck in since he switched from Sonic to Ray not realizing what had happened to Ray (I'm guessing the game let him switch because it still thought Ray was in close proximity to him) seems like a more forgivable issue to me. Of course the character switching system is going to lead to some bizarre moments like that. And that's the most major bug I've seen so far with the character switching system. (That issue of retractable doors falling on AI characters after you've gone through them and pushing them beneath the door has existed since the initial release. Here's a video from 8/17/17 of it happening to Tails. Obviously it wasn't an issue before because it just visually looks like the door squashed them and they respawn shortly after; only now that there's a possibility you can switch to playing as them right after it happens is it a problem, especially since we now know the door is actually pushing them into the wall/geometry beneath the door. But yeah like I said I think quirks like this from the character switching system are to be expected and not that big of a deal.)

    But the music cutting out seems like a more widespread issue and a bigger deal. I still occasionally have the music cut out on me in Press Garden Zone Act 2 on all versions of the game prior to 1.04/"Plus." I'd say it happens maybe 1/10 times. It's always a bummer when it happens, but it doesn't happen that often and it's only ever specifically PGZ Act 2 that it still happens to me. (PGZ Act 2 music cutting out has happened at least once on the Sonic official livestream as well.) Of course you can still play when the music cuts out, but it's not a great experience--hearing nothing but sound effects is pretty eerie, and having the music cut out only serves to remind you how great and essential it is to the overall quality of the game. (I know people had music/audio issues in other zones when the game initially released--thankfully I never did--but it does seem like the current version prior to 1.04 has resolved most audio/music issues, except for it still occasionally happening in PGZ Act 2.)

    Considering there hasn't been a patch for "Mania" in a long time it seems highly likely 1.04 is going to be final in terms of Mania mode. But based on what we're already seeing with the limited number of streams/videos of Encore, I do hope at least one patch is issued that clears up or at least improves this music cutting out issue in Encore. Because it already seems like a bigger deal/more frequent than the same issue in PGZ Act 2 the main game (prior to 1.04 anyway; no idea if 1.04 fixed the longstanding issue with PGZ Act 2 music cutting out or not) suffers from. Let's hope so.
     
  15. Glaber

    Glaber

    Has Beaten Sonic Genesis for GBA Oldbie
    Maybe we shouldn't be reporting bugs because the Mods may think it's not necessary.

    Let's get real, if we start a bug topic for Mania Plus, will it be shut down just like the bug topic for Mania?
     
  16. CollectiveWater

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    Oh I totally understand why we shouldn't be reporting each and every little bug that happens since most are minor. I just figured I'd post about the music cutting out issue in Encore because it does seem to be a more widespread problem than any other bug I've ever seen for "Mania." The devs probably already know about it, but still wanted to post about it just in case they do not. Won't be posting about any other ones. Can't wait to finally dig into Encore later today!
     
  17. HEDGESMFG

    HEDGESMFG

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    [​IMG]

    Guys, it's here. The real thing, I own an actual physical Sonic release product with the Whitehead, Headcannon, Pagoda and Hyperkinetic logo on it. To me? This is the culmination of over 20 years in this online fandom (I first started making crude fangames in the second half of 1998, and even back then Stealth was among us), so getting this package is a huge deal.

    I just wanted to give one last final congratulations to the team for their efforts and their well deserved success, with hopes for much more to come. Regardless of any critiques I've had for the game (many of which were actually fixed in this new version), this is a huge deal and something I am very proud to see. You guys did it. We did it, Retro.

    Here's hoping this isn't the last time we see these guys do another great title like this too!

    Edit: Also, if you haven't seen it yet... check the descriptions on the back of the Genesis reversible cover. A certain forgotten technology is back to rule the day again.

    Check out the spoiler below if you want to see.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. CollectiveWater

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    Very well said, HEDGESMFG, and ha, what you said in your edit is rad.

    Also I just noticed all the system stores do indeed now have a separate $4.99 listing for the Encore DLC--guessing you can get/play it now everywhere. (Well, I don't see a separate listing on Switch yet, but it might be there if you're looking at it on the system itself and not just via Nintendo's site--unable to check until I get home later today.) Really glad that's the case and the option in the 1.04 menu wasn't the only way to get it. Quick note that on Steam you should add the ability to buy the Encore DLC on the main store page for the base game itself--Steam allows you to have a separate "downloadable content for this game" section on your game's main store page. It will appear underneath the main "Buy Sonic Mania" section at the top of the page.

    Here's the separate $4.99 Encore DLC listing on the PS4 store, Steam, and Xbox One. (I'll edit in a link to Switch when it becomes available.)

    Don't know how long this has been the case for/if it's newly added for the 1.04 patch and Encore, but the Xbox One page for the main game says it is Xbox One X enhanced. Nice for that version to have parity with the PS4 Pro version. Of course 1080p is fine for a pixel art game like this, but like John Linneman pointed out in his Digital Foundry video covering the game when it initially launched, the native 4K version does look the best of all the console versions.

    (Just saw the Encore DLC has now been added to the main page for "Sonic Mania" on Steam, in addition to the separate listing. Nice! It is also listed in the "add-on" section for the main pages of the game on both the PS4 and Xbox One stores, too. The "add-on" sections for those stores is much further down the page than the "downloadable content for this game" section on Steam, though, so I won't link to them. Easier to just go to the separate $4.99 Encore DLC listings I linked to above for those two stores. Still this is all great for visibility; again, real glad the option in the new 1.04 menu wasn't the only way to get it.)
     
  19. Beltway

    Beltway

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    Been playing through Encore Mode for a bit and I'm honestly really impressed with Mighty and Ray. His gliding move is honestly delightful and way more dynamic in movement than Tails. I can understand some of the confusion on being able to control him by some, but I feel after a few minutes I generally understood how he's supposed to be used. Meanwhile I've absolutely in love with using Mighty's Hammer Drop on sloped terrain because of the amazing rebound movement it bestows to him. It varies based on how steep the slope is, a shallow slope can give him a short hop but a deep slope can give him a crazy lengthy horizontal jump, it's like Sonic's take on Mario's long jump. It's especially useful in keeping your flow on less simple/straightforward level setpieces and (in certain cases) can be used split-second dodges of enemy attacks.

    Really impressed with Ray and Mighty. I never thought I'd genuinely ask for them to be brought back for a future classic Sonic game but yeah, bring 'em back please.
     
  20. Glaber

    Glaber

    Has Beaten Sonic Genesis for GBA Oldbie
    Question, does the physical version of the game tell the digital version to download the DLC or does it just mess up the digital version?