Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Hinchy, Apr 25, 2018.
Does anyone know whether the update changed the final bosses in any way?
I dunno, Sega is selling Encore Mode as having "remixed stages", which in reality generally don't amount to much more than palette swaps. I think it's fair for people to be disappointed with the mode since Sega was vague enough about the mode for people to easily speculate that it'd be more than it is. I think it's an alright expansion for five bucks, since it has two new characters, and the changes (though mostly minor) are neat, but Sega should have been much clearer with their messaging.
It's been a while since I've played the game so might be that I'm misremembering, but I don't think there's anything different about the Titanic Monarch boss? I haven't gotten to the true final boss in Encore Mode yet though cause of how hard the new special stages are.
Oh wait, the cutscene at the end of Encore if you don't have all Chaos Emeralds is different, so that's something. It's a pretty small scene and very clearly a bad ending thing but still.
There is no Egg Reviere boss now, even in the emeralds ending, so that was simply removed.
None of the bosses have had any graphical changes aside from Metal Sonic, but the boss attack patterns/timings have nearly all been tweaked to make them harder, with it being especially noticable in the final boss. The two lower tentacles are the last 2 to get destroyed now (meaning he doesn't get an obvious weakness from the ground in the first half of the fight), and his period of vulnerability is much smaller, dragging out the fight a lot more if you're not super.
I mean color changes and slight changes to object/badnik/gimmick placement qualifies as "remixed," doesn't it? Also I think it's pretty clear Sega set the review embargo early/so many days in advance of release and apparently had little to no restrictions in terms of whether reviewers could stream all of Encore and give specifics on everything in "Plus" exactly so people would have a clearer idea of what the DLC is and whether they are interested in it or not. The DLC (and physical copy) doesn't technically go on sale for four more days. People have plenty of time to make up their minds.
HEDGESMFG had a good post about some of the changes in Encore here. Titanic Monarch Act 2 boss (Eggman) definitely has differences that make him harder.
Oh, I meant changes in the main game, not encore mode
I don't think there's been any changes to the final bosses in Mania mode. I have not seen someone with "Plus" play through Mania mode yet, though, so definitely can't say for certain. Doubt there are any, though.
I'm sure someone will make a detailed account of every major and minor change (including for bosses) for both Mania mode and Encore once "Plus" is actually broadly available/released.
So we're already working on getting mods ready for PC Plus. Tpot and I are working on the files list to easily extract the rsdk and SuperSonic16 has already added the newest GameConfig support to the Maniac Editor (it was changed to accommodate Plus and there's a new flag). I got the new Mirage Saloon extracted and placed it in regular Mania PC as a test. (https://youtu.be/zVEUck0QP1k).
Interestingly, it seems like the Encore palettes are loaded by a special new "Palette" entity and I'm FAIRLY sure that they're loaded by .act files (which is interesting because Mania usually uses the palettes from the tiles gif/StageConfig) and I am trying to get those out of the RSDK. Haven't found much unused content yet. Chibi Mighty's second gif is a copy of Knuckles'. The Good Mirage Saloon ending is the second scene in that folder, not the first.
That's all I have for now.
Holy balls! My copy of Mania Plus arrived 3 days early! Now I've gotta wait until finish work!
Mine did too! So excited to play it.
Figured I'd post this for folks that haven't gotten their copy of "Plus" yet/anyone that'd be interested. Looked up Encore runs available so far on Youtube and Twitch and one that caught my eye immediately was from Joeybaby69. He holds the #2 speedrun record for Sonic & Tails "beat the game" category, as well as #1 for the same category unpatched and #1 for Knuckles unpatched. He got an early copy of "Plus" and streamed his very first Encore run--first major speedrunner to do so, I believe. Interesting to see someone like him run through Encore; I feel like it is more informative in terms of learning the changes made than watching most/all of the other people that have done playthroughs because every time his momentum comes to a halt, he outright says "that's different," or remarks that a speed shoe monitor or shield monitor is no longer where it used to be, you know that's a part where a change was made. Like I suspected, there seems to be a lot more subtle changes that those of us who don't have the entire game memorized and aren't speedrunners wouldn't immediately pick up on or might not notice altogether.
I think speedrunners will probably generally be pretty happy with the new patch/"Plus." Being able to easily skip cutscenes is great (both for them and normal players), and Encore has enough variability to it with the character monitors that it might make that category kind of interesting to some of them. But I suspect Ray in Mania mode is going to be the most popular category for speedrunners; wouldn't be surprised if they're able to get the lowest patched time with him (or at least one of the lowest). Will be interesting to see what Zaxon, Claris, and Argick think about it all, too.
Anyway here's the link to Joeybaby's first playthrough of Encore.
So I got Mania Plus today on Switch (and PS4 but haven't played it yet). I ordered from ShopTo. Reall pleased to have gotten the game so early. It's fantastic. I might post a full review later, might not. Here's a summary of my thoughts for now though. I've beaten Encore Mode with all the Emeralds. The ending is a little disappointing, but I'm not bothered by it.
Mighty isn't what I was expecting. I'm pleasantly surprised by his missing wall-jump, since the levels aren't built in any way to benefit from it. Not having it also limits his vertical movement, like Sonic, so he's keeping the cast a bit more balanced. His stomp is surprisingly very, very useful. It brings him to an almost dead stop, which is great for careful play, and also defeats enemies in a short radius. Plus the quake that it causes will make any hidden item boxes fall to the ground. It's very useful. I had thought about how they could use Mighty's shell, but couldn't come up with anything concrete. The decision to give him semi-immunity to spikes and projectiles while in a ball is genius. He is able to briefly traverse spike traps that other characters would be vulnerable to, but it's not permanent. It also makes the GHZ2 and FBZ2 bosses way easier. His sprite work is really nice too, although I'm kind disappointed about the fact they they went the Knuckles Chaotix route and used Sonic as a base. Many of his animation are totally original, but his standing sprite is obviously recycled. A bit of a shame, that. But there are several call-backs to his Chaotix appearance in his animations, which is also nice to see.
Ray is also really good. He's very similar to the cape or racoon suit in Mario, but it far easier to use. He can build up a lot of speed very easily in the air. But unlike Tails and Knuckles, he lacks much recovery, to ensure he's not too over-powered (in some levels though he is totally OP and it's ridiculously fun as a result). Once he hits a wall of cancels his glide, he can't start gliding again he's landed. His sprites are lovely too. He can't ascend as easily as Tails in narrow areas, but on the whole he's much more fun than Tails to play as.
The Encore Mode setup with two characters and the full cast replacing the traditional lives system is genius. I absolutely love it. Having two characters to swap between at any point and plenty of monitors to completely change your team at any time means that you're constantly on your toes and the game is always switching up how you play. This was a total surprise to me and I love it. You also instantly respawn as a new character upon death (provided you have any left), rather than have the screen fade to black. It's a nice way to keep the pace going.
The Encore levels are okay. If you're not overly familiar with Mania, you might not notice much different apart from the palettes (and Mirage Saloon Act 1 as it's totally new). They're mostly pretty tame changes to existing layouts to challenge your muscle memory. Fun, but nothing groundbreaking. I can understand why some people would be disappointed. Bosses have been rebalanced where necessary (and one changed entirely), but are otherwise identical to the originals. They didn't ever modify the arenas to add a bit of challenge. Definitely the weak-point of Encore Mode. Oil Ocean 2's boss went from being borderline unfair to one of the easiest in the game.
The new palettes for the Encore levels are very hit and miss. A few of them, like Oil Ocean, Flying Battery and Mirage Saloon 2 are really wonderful. Then you've got things like Press Garden 1, Lava Reef 1 and Stardust Speedway 1 which are basically just off-hue versions of the original and look a bit ugly. Then there's real disasters like Hydrocity 1, Lava Reef 2 or Studiopolis 1, which just look bad. The new palettes seem to favour dull colours with hues of yellow, orange and brown and colours that generally clash. The levels that try to change the entire atmosphere (Oil Ocean, both acts) tend to come out the best.
The new bonus stages are perfect. The higher ring requirement to enter them makes them more of a reward than Blue Sphere, plus you now can earn items or extra characters in them. They're a lot of fun, and don't outstay their welcome. The new Special Stages are haaaaaaaard. All of them are entirely new layouts with new challenges. I only managed to get three Emeralds in my playthrough. They're tough, and 90% of the Big Rings have been moved. I'm in love with the newly added level transitions. One of the still doesn't make sense (Hydrocity to Mirage Saloon)
The art book is absolutely bloody wonderful. And, slight story spoilers here... it establishes that Sonic Arcade is canon. That's really cool.
Mighty and Ray get Super forms, which is awesome. But it's a real shame that it's still only Sonic who gets more than a palette swap. I'd kill to see new sprites for everyone else, but understand what a huge amount of work that would be.
A playable Angel Island mini act was so cool.
Encore Mode won't be enough for everyone and may even disappoint some, but the meat of this new content is the two new playable characters and the team system that it adds in. If Mania wasn't already the best Sonic game ever made, it certainly is now.
And who wants glitches?
Plus one more that can't be embedded due to the file limit.
Some minor news, I know nobody's talkIng about the Mania Plus feature on the Sonic official stream on Thursday (probably because the entire game is already leaking on YoutTube), but..
It seems Mania Adventures has been nominated for two film festivals: the Palm Springs Animation Film Festival, and the Los Angeles Shorts International Film Festival. They'll be screening in August and supposedly you can get tickets online somewhere. It's a tiny bit of news but it's good to see Tyson and the rest of the team getting recognized for what is an all-around amazing animated series.
Awesome news. It's all the more impressive given that Tyson indicated their budget is extremely limited meaning they're pulling off wonders to make it as good as it is. Throw in all the awards and nominations that Mania itself got and you're looking at the most successful and well-received Sonic project ever - if not ever then at least since the heights of the Genesis days.
Will second that Mania Plus seems a little less polished than I remember Mania being? I haven't run in to anything too extreme though, just some weird music stuff
Music bugs have been a widely recognized thing since release. It's disappointing that they'd still not be fixed.
I love this game to death but weird quirks and bugs like this always upset me when they pop up, which is much more often than I'd like.
Just a quick question for the people that got the game early: is it possible to play Encore mode with two controllers ? My sister and I played trough Mania as Sonic and Tails and it was really fun, we'd love to do it again with Encore mode.
Sorry if this has already been answered somewhere, but what happened to the drowning music? (Skip to 22:12)
It's suddenly using the Sonic CD alert, but... why? Does it always do that now, or is it a weird Encore Mode quirk?
Got my copy of Mania Plus today (Switch) and I've just finished Encore mode. Got the good-ending at the first attempt!
So much fun to play whilst switching between characters. The item-boxes which randomises characters and the item-boxes which cycle quickly between characters and and elemential shields are a really cool idea. The bonus stage is pretty good. You can earn continues easily by collecting 50 rings in the bonus stages and it's quite easy to collect items in the bonus stage using the "Catcher" from Knuckles Chaotx.
I earned 9 out of the 10 continues (as shown in the screenshot below) in the pinball bonus stage.
Mighty is incredibly fun to play as. Might be my favorite playable character in Mania Plus. In contrast I've yet to master Ray's move-set. It's sorta confusing.
I had a hilarious game-breaking glitch in GH act2; coming out of the tube after the special stage near the end (just before the Eggman boss); the camera locked so I couldn't get out of the tube.
I only lost a character once, which was Ray. Difficulty is slightly higher than Mania mode, but not by much.
The boss fights and their difficulty for Encore mode are exactly the same as in the leaked 1.04 version of Mania (for Mania mode & Encore mode). Mighty makes some of the boss fights a lot easier!
All chaos emeralds collected by the end of Studipolis. The seventh special stage was the only one which took me two attempts. The rest were easy (bare in mind I've already played them in the leaked 1.04 version on PS4).
Clip I recorded of the good-ending after defeating Eggman in Titanic Monarch:
Clip I recorded of the secret ending after the end-credits:
The transition between Hydrocity & Mirage Saloon still feels unfinished. The other transitions are really good.
I beat Heavy King in Lava Reef act2 (you can get to him without the need of Knuckles this time). I assume you can choose to fight either Jimmy or Heavy King in Encore mode.
I'm now gonna play Mania mode with Mighty.
Any clip of the not-all-emeralds ending, or is it exactly the same minus the post-credits sequence?
^ the bad ending is pretty similar except the ruby portal doesn't open up and after your characters and robotnik leave the screen, the heavy king drops in and grabs the ruby.
I feel like they were kinda stuck with the Hydrocity to Mirage Saloon transition. What could they have done? You go from a trapped arena on angel island to a plane in the sky somewhere else completely. I mean I can't think of anything that'd be better than what they did. At least now they can run out of the boss area, where as before honestly they'd of been dead, there was no escape originally :v:/>
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