Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Hinchy, Apr 25, 2018.
Good for them. We got toast.
Minor update to Mania on the Switch charts. Nintendo Everything recently updated their format for their weekly Switch eShop charts postings (starting in early June), so now they show two charts--the "All Games" chart that covers both games available digital and/or physical (which has been the "standard" method of documenting Switch charts in the past postings); and a new "Download-Only" chart that only covers games available exclusively on the eShop. The list of rankings has also been increased from 20 to 30 for both charts.
For the past two weeks (06/09/18 and 06/16/18), Mania hasn't shown up on the standard/"All Games" charts (and has yet to after it last appeared in March); but is still shown to be near the bottom of the "Download Only" charts; at #30 (6/19) and #25 (6/16), respectively. Will add to the wiki eventually.
On that note, I hope we'll start seeing marketing for Mania Plus' release (DLC and retail release, as well as the coinciding QoL update patch) pick up over the coming weeks. Granted, E3 2018 (and regarding Sonic, TSR) has taken up current priorities for Sega/Sonic's PR team, and they're likely now winding things back down. But that E3 Sonic Mania Toaster Plus showing from last week was ridiculously inept, and I really hope we don't get a repeat of that (or barely any effort at all) for Plus' launch...
They'll probably just stick to promoting the Plus dlc in Sonic Mania Adventures (including showing-off more Encore gameplay in the end-credits), which to be fair has been a clever way to advertise the dlc.
Minor thing from the latest Mania Adventures short - Ray's monkey-bars animation's shown during the end credits, and he alternates between using his arms and his tail, just like in SEGASonic the Hedgehog! A lovely little visual touch that shows the Mania team really know these characters well. = )
The new Mania Adventures episode is the best one yet imo!!! The friendship between Mighty and Ray is adorable, and honestly - while I usually don't find slapstick very funny - the way they interact with each other is absolutely hilarious to me.
Another small thing I noticed: if you slow down the footage at the VERY end of the credits, you can see Mighty using the Hammer Drop after destroying that Chemical Plant badnik. If I'm not mistaken, it looks like the Hammer Drop will be able to bounce off of solid ground, because in the footage it looks like Mighty starts to bounce back up after hitting the floor. Maybe someone else can confirm this better by Looking frame by frame, but if Hammer Drop can act like a bubble shield then I'm interested in what you can do by bouncing off item boxes and such.
I loved seeing that, it made me happy to see a unique take on that animation!
PS: Does anybody know where and when the birthday livestream will be viewable today? I know I saw an article about it earlier, but I can't find anything that has a solid date and time on it.
EDIT: Just found out it's starting right now on the JP Sega YouTube channel! Hopefully there's some nice surprises in store
While we're awaiting anything new spoiler-wise (or waiting for Mania Plus to release - just over 3 weeks away now!), a quick question prompted by some discussion in the Mania Adventures thread: exactly which games/other media make up the "Mania-verse" timeline at this point? Thought it best to post in here as anyting re: Encore Mode's placement is probably considered a spolier, so this seemed like the safest place to discuss.
As far as I can tell, it goes something like this:
Sonic the Hedgehog (MD) - A de facto inclusion - first classic game, introduces Sonic and Dr. Eggman, yada yada.
SEGASonic the Hedgehog - Introduces Mighty and Ray; moved from release order to avoid disrupting the Death Egg saga. Could easily swap places with the next entry, but feels earlier due to no spin-dash (or equivalent) and a smaller-scale story.
Sonic the Hedgehog CD - Introduces Amy and Metal Sonic; moved from release order to avoid disrupting Death Egg saga. Placement before Sonic 2 due to Sonic 1 styled graphics and different spin-dash - feels almost like an "imperfect" spin-dash which could have developed into the one we're more familiar with through further practice.
Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (MD) - Introduces Tails. First game in the Death Egg saga.
Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles (Sonic & Tails' story) - Introduces Knuckles; second and third games in the Death Egg saga.
Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles (Knuckles' story) - Many details present during the game suggest this is a separate narrative taking place after Sonic & Tails' story, hence its placement here.
Sonic Generations (Classic Sonic) - TIMELINE SPLIT due to the plot's time travel shenanigans - Sonic and Eggman become aware of their future through the events of this game, and even if not consciously, end up doing things differently in future. From this point on, the Mania-verse is considered a separate world, which is how it's later described in Sonic Forces.
Chaotix - Although the Sonic Mania Plus trailer isn't canon as such, it heavily suggests Mighty and Knuckles are supposed to know each other already by the time Mania occurs, which would suggest the events of this game happened at some point beforehand. Charmy plain not knowing who Dr. Eggman is in Sonic Heroes suggests that if this game happened it's now a Mania-verse only game, hence the post-Generations placement. Mighty's capture also gives a good reason for Ray to be searching for him in Mania Adventures - presumably he went missing and Ray started searching for him; Mighty seeks to reunite with Ray after helping topple Eggman's Chaotix scheme, and the two don't finally run into each other until Mania Adventures Part 4.
Sonic Mania (Mania Mode, Sonic/Tails/Knuckles) - The original Sonic Mania plot - both this and Chaotix seem to take place shortly after Sonic 3 & Knuckles, so I've simply placed them in release order.
Sonic Forces (Classic Sonic) - The end of Sonic Mania links directly into classic Sonic's appearance in this game, so its timeline placing is pretty explicit.
Sonic Mania Adventures (Parts 1-5) - Likewise, these shorts continue directly from the ending of Sonic Forces from classic Sonic's perspective, so no ambiguity here.
Sonic Mania Plus (Encore Mode) - Assumed placement, but given the above existing links, the fact we know Encore Mode will have its own story, and the fact that Mania Adventures has introduced Mighty and Ray to the narrative, it's very likely this will be placed here timeline-wise.
I think that's roughly how it plays out as far as I can see - obviously CD and SEGASonic could sit either way around, and I guess Chaotix could technically happen while Classic Sonic is spirited away into the events of Sonic Forces rather than where I've placed it, as it'd neatly explain why Sonic isn't involved in the events of that game... though he does cameo in the ending cutscene, so I've kept it prior to Mania to avoid that not making sense.
Not included the Game Gear games as they seem to take place in a separate universe where there are only six Chaos Emeralds which permanently reside on South Island.
The only other game I can think of which possibly sits in this timeline is Sonic the Fighters - while it would give a proper introduction of sorts for Bean, Bark and Fang, I've left it out partly due to the whole 8 Chaos Emeralds aspect, and partly becuase Bean and Bark are characterised as Sonic's friends in the official story for that game but are presented as villains in Mania - even though we don't see the real versions of them, they're still present on "WANTED" posters throughout the stage. Though I suppose that could just have been due to the Heavy Magician framing them by committing crimes while transformed into them, I guess...
Anything I've missed, or any thoughts on how you'd order things differently?
I might be suggesting blasphemy, but who says SEGASonic wasn't the first time Sonic and Eggman met, and Mighty and Ray just weren't game to tag along for later games? Eggman has a full, complete stranglehold on a single island with no particular need for ground troops, a feat we never see again until Sonic Forces, it's a smaller-scale story as you noted, and there's no hide nor hair of magical gemstones in any form.
Also, the Japanese description for Fighters says Fang stole his Emerald from its real guardian, so he isn't actually one of Sonic's friends after all. Bean and Bark, though - probably more difficult to reconcile, but not *impossible*.
An interesting take on it - that could work, though I didn't want to shuffle things around more than was necessary. Sonic the Hedgehog was intended as the first game and nothing causes problems with it holding that place, so I decided to stick to the simplest available option.
Yep, I'm aware of this - you'll notice I only flagged up Bean and Bark as being problematic, not Fang. Does make me wonder who's supposed to have originally held the Emerald he stole, though - it's not stated anywhere as far as I know. If you're going purely by what *is* in that game (even unused) then it'd logically have to be Honey - if not, then one of the other Chaotix characters or Ray are the next most likely bets, as those were really the only established characters at the time who don't already feature.
I've also been of the opinion SEGASonic might've been before Sonic1, but who knows...
Sonic1's backstory implies Sonic & Eggman knew each other from way before.
Yeah, either way there's definitely supposed to be unseen stuff pre-Sonic the Hedgehog - I get the impression Sonic's already aware of Eggman in SEGASonic, but since other unseen adventures are also supposed to have happened that still wouldn't stop the arcade game from being placed before the original Mega Drive title if you're inclined to do so. = )
An I right in thinking there are no animal-containing robots in SegaSonic as well? The Japanese manual for Sonic 1 says outright that it isn't Sonic and Eggman's first confrontation, and suggests it's also the first time Eggman has turned animals into robot soldiers.
Edit: D'oh, I see others beat me to it.
That last bit is an interesting detail I'd completely forgotten - if the SEGASonic robots don't contain animals, combined with this snippet that's actually a pretty strong argument that it should sit pre-Sonic the Hedgehog timeline-wise. It being fairly early on in the Sonic/Eggman conflict could also help explain why Sonic's able to be captured like a chump by Eggman, I guess. XD
I always place the arcade before the first megadrive game because Sonic seems to be far more scared about Eggman than in any other game, plus there isn't much fight or spinning in the game either. It could have been the first time Sonic and Robotnik met, and the reason why Sonic started being brave enough to fight such an enemy; you know, the thrill of the adventure, being heroic enough to survive one deathtrap after another and surviving that horror... it makes sense for me and also explains why Mighty and ray might not be capable enough to join as heroes in later games, but Mighty was mighty enough to become one in time for Chaotix.
4-player competition mode gameplay
Oh nice, finally a somewhat proper look at Mighty and Ray's gameplay.
The multiplayer starts around 30 minutes btw. I also want to add how much fun that looks and how much of a missed fucking opportunity they had not putting this online I'm sorry, I'm never going to have 3 people over who want to play Sonic.
That's awesome... for people with tangible friends nearby, I agree.
Maybe they're saving the online for the definitive anniversary collection in 2021 (wink wink). =P
Is there any technical limitation for them not to include online multiplayer? Like, latency issues, or whatever?
It looks fun as hell, but honestly I can barely match free time with my friends online, and I'm not THAT popular to host meetings to play games :P
Neat. At 31 minutes in Mighty bounces up a little on some spikes while rolling from a fall. It looks like he uncurls a split second later like the ground pound though.
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