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Sonic Mania Plus SPOILER THREAD with UNMARKED spoilers!

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Harmony Friends, Apr 25, 2018.

  1. The grass is a huge improvement. I'm not sure why anyone is upset, both versions depict grass except for the fact Mania's depiction is vastly better
     
  2. Gestalt

    Gestalt

    Sphinx in Chains Member
    I see. It may be important to have some repeating elements, but the same goes for one or two exceptions. That moment when you're playing Sonic 3 for the first time and realise that things are quite different, not so cheerful on Angel Island, that mysterious new Jungle-type zone...not worth a reference? :colbert:

    Maybe I'll get used to it. :specialed:
     
  3. Glaber

    Glaber

    Has Beaten Sonic Genesis for GBA Oldbie
    I think the big problem could be Hard Times as so far, no other song has been found to be an exact match to any of the other "Problem tracks". The last time Sonic 3 was made available to buy was around 2011. I think after that, the Song Hard Times was discovered by the sonic fan base around 2013 and people began to make mash ups with it and Ice cap. That may be what caused problems with continued sales of Sonic 3 part 1 despite the fact that Hard Times was uploaded in 2009.

    To date, no other matching songs have been found. Just similar parts of Michael Jackson Songs. Key word, "parts". Not whole songs.
     
  4. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    I think the beginning of Angel island in sonic 3 was very cheerful. A lush green jungle thays right off a beach. It's a nice setting.

    This is exactly that but with different grass that fits the game's art style. Actually this angel island is darker, there's a lot more of the forest background than sky or ocean in this than in Sonic 3.
     
  5. RetroKoH

    RetroKoH

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    It IS a good choice. Why do people complain? Same reason this community complained over the minute artistic details of the old S2HD... Because this is the Sonic community. We get an fan-provided labor of love, this time released as an official title, and instead of just embracing it, and providing major points of constructive criticism over important things such as, oh, IDK... gameplay??? we bitch over minor aesthetic details which are undeniably improvements anyhow. Even if you preferred the original art style, how can you argue against a polished version that doesn't clash with the rest of the game and reflects effort from the art team for what is essentially extra content. We all know damn well that if stock Sonic Team did this, it would be a lazy copy paste of the original art with little if any touchups, and we'd bitch about THAT instead.
     
  6. Sean Evans

    Sean Evans

    Professional Dork Member
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    Hey man, let's cool it. That minor detail is part of what gives the stage it's character to some people. It's part of the epitome of the slighty rough, pre-rendered style the games had. I mean, I hate the old grass, but I get why people might be slightly miffed over losing it. Being nit-picky and specific is the attitude that got us stuff like Mania in the first place, so I don't think people would complain if it was over nothing. Besides, people have been providing criticism towards the gameplay, and many other minute features. And a lot of those points and features were then graciously added in the recent update.
     
  7. Xilla

    Xilla

    Super! Smashing! Member
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    Yeah my understanding is that Buxer didn't actually write Hard Times himself, thus increasing the legal headache.
     
  8. RetroKoH

    RetroKoH

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    You are completely correct, to a degree, being critical and nit-picky does lead to things like this. I can't argue that. And, I'm not even faulting someone for having a preference of old over new... but that goes both ways. My gripe is this: If the Mania team were to stop and re-do EVERY minor detail that someone had with Mania, and this isn't Mania-exclusive but I emphasize this game for how special it is to the community, it wouldn't go anywhere. I get why some people aren't overjoyed with the aesthetic, but it's not BAD by any means. Now, you'll notice I haven't complained about the GHZ recolor... that's a valid complaint. Not because I am personally biased and agree with it, but because it encompasses the entire level, dominates the aesthetic, is impossible to miss when you initially play it in it's normal version and then see the jarring difference... THAT is something distracting. Grass? I'll be completely honest, I didn't even notice the grass in my first run through of Mania... but again, maybe I'm selfishly letting my own viewpoint dominate a little too much here. I'll take a step back now.

    I think back to the days of S2HD, and while it's great that the project is BACK, there was a time where things like this only worked against that. I seem to recall fans having open input on all facets of the game, and IIRC we all got hung up on shades of colors in HillTop Zone, for multiple pages. Or perhaps let's look back at the blunder that was Project Sonic Retro? My point is that there are reasons why very trivial things like this don't matter in the grand scheme of things, and we should be happy that they took the time and effort to put the polish they did into it, even if it is visually different than some of us would've imagined... instead of tearing apart every detail when in reality we love the other 98% of the game.

    Could I've worded it better? Absolutely, you are right. Will I change it or apologize? Absolutely not. It really irks me to see the sheer number of people up in arms over such a small thing. I'd honestly rather see 8 more pages of us complaining that Amy isn't in the game, to be completely honest (Not that I agree or disagree with that point either, but it's a far more viable complaint than this).

    I don't want to make it a point to just argue with you, since I do actually agree with and respect where you are coming from overall, but I do feel the need to point this out. I think we both can find TONS of instances where this is proven otherwise... and we wouldn't even have to look very far.
     
  9. Gestalt

    Gestalt

    Sphinx in Chains Member
    Ok, then why did they change it? 'To match the quality of the rest of the game.' Ok, but GHZ-stripes won't do the trick IMO. Sonic 3 looked gorgeous in every way. Except for that grass and the impression that I get is that they had problems with the screen resolution back then. The grass on Angel Island had long and thin straws. Maybe they could work around it a little bit more? ...or not.

    I can already live with that.
     
  10. rata

    rata

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    Trying to be useful somehow.

    For sake of consinstency one of them have to go, and aparently Green Hill without striped grass isn't Green Hill, so, Angel Island have to acomodate for it. The long thin straws are still there so it's still Angel Island'z grass, just a bit striped.
     
  11. RetroKoH

    RetroKoH

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    I can understand that it feels more Green Hill-esque and less Angel Island-esque, but yea. Consistency is the answer. It was the most time-efficient manner in which to give us a remaster. Go with an already established art pattern and tweak it to fit the art style. Stripes aside, I gotta say I REALLLY LOVE the darker, more lush palette.
     
  12. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    To those who don't get why some complain about the grass in Angel Island: The new one looks like Green Hill's and the old one was its own thing.
     
  13. Gestalt

    Gestalt

    Sphinx in Chains Member
    If we'll ever get a Generations 2 with Angel Island in it...

    edit:
    ...good for you >:/
     
  14. Naean

    Naean

    Naean H.F. (Nez Man) Member
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    The very first time that I saw the grass in Sonic Mania's Angel Island Zone, it didn't strike me mainly as Green Hill Zone grass, but instead of Emerald Hill Zone grass.

    If you look at how the stripes and grass height are done in Sonic Mania's Angel Island Zone, and compare it to Emerald Hill Zone, I'd argue that they share much more close similarities than Green Hill Zone. (Although obviously Emerald Hill Zone takes after Green Hill Zone in general, too.) :)
     
  15. I think Mania's Angel Island looks great. I always found the original grass a bit weird, the new one has more volume, I like it. The other changes are cool too, everything suits the Mania style really well.
     
  16. Drex

    Drex

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    If they didn't like the grass, they should have updated it instead of copying pasting from a different Zone. That's all I'm saying. Outside of Marble Zone and the Green Hill clone stages d Emerald Hill / Hilltop, every other grassy Sonic Zone has been unique. I literally can't think of any reason for the decision outside of "it's the first stage of Sonic game *derp*"

    It doesn't look bad at all, I'll give it that.
     
  17. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    How long until we see an "original grass" mod for Mania Plus :v:
     
  18. McAleeCh

    McAleeCh

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    Honestly, guys, at this point we almost need a separate "Angel Island grass" thread or something - every time I see a new post in this topic I click hoping there's been a new nugget of Mania Plus info, only to find everyone's still discussing a minor aesthetic decision we've known about since 2017, haha. XD
     
  19. Plorpus

    Plorpus

    Previously Hitlersaurus Christ Member
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    Never underestimate the pedantry of the Sonic fan base.
     
  20. Sir_mihael

    Sir_mihael

    DON'T TRUST THIS MAN Member
    Oh come on, you all make it sound like we're having some wild political debate...

    Now if you'll excuse me, I've got a MAGA campaign to run!

    [​IMG]

    MANIA TEAM CUT ANGEL ISLAND'S GRASS AT THE TAXPAYER'S EXPENSE. SAD!!!