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Sonic Mania Plus (Consoles Physical; PC Digital) - Non-Leaks Thread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Chris Highwind, Mar 16, 2018.

  1. Frozen Nitrogen

    Frozen Nitrogen

    Wouldn't the door have been easier? Wiki Sysop
    I don't see how this is illuminating.
    Raise me an "X's favourite is Amy therefore X should be able to play as Amy", as I can (and will) raise you an entirely symmetric "My favourite is Metal therefore I should be able to play as Metal".
    It just boils down to an argument that "My tastes are better than your tastes" which doesn't get anyone anywhere.

    The argument "I haven't been able to play as Ray since 1993 and even then I could only play as him in one game whereas Amy's been multiply playable all the way up to 2006*" at least has the merit of an appeal to fairness.

    In fairness to the video, though, they did mention at the end that the main point they want to make is "YAY PLUS" rather than "BOO NO AMY", so fair enough, they agree with me on aggregate.

    * 2006 is longer-ago than I thought. Damn, '06 really did a number on the LoadsAndLoadsOfCharacters thing
  2. Laughingcow


    Resident Edgelord PHD Member
    I stopped caring when they dragged their daughter into it. So you have to be a little girl to want Amy in the game? Bullshit.

    I wanted Amy in the game too but this is plain dishonest. I'm being reminded of the terrible Ghostbusters reboot.
  3. Turbohog


    This fanbase sure sucks sometimes. Why complain so much about this? This is the 2nd best Sonic-related news in over a decade if you ask me.
  4. Drex


    Lazy perfectionist Member
    I think that the title of the video is off-putting in saying that Plus is literally a problem because x character didn't make it in. I get where their feelings are coming from on the representation end, but, since Amy's been playable more often then not in multi-character games, the inclusion complaint doesn't hold as much weight.. + - They lost me a bit when they started conflating girl reps with princesses, too.  

    I think a more universal reasoning behind people's disappointment about Mighty and Ray is that SEGA has done nothing to flesh-out the characters since the obscure arcade game. Outside of a few die-hard comic readers, majority of positive reactions were on a scale of "oh, I've heard of them" to "YEAH! I knew I was right! Not b/c I wanted or expected them, but b/c of the obvious hint they gave..." People can't truly get that nostalgic excitement from characters that basically didn't exist. Even the promise of a new play style is worrisome since these guys are literally just proto Tails and Knux.

    All that said, I still have some faith that the team can really make the characters feel like worthwhile additions. In a perfect world, they would have first announced Amy since she was expected and then surprised us with the inclusion of Mighty and Ray towards the end of the Plus presentation, + - then cap it off with the physical release reveal and price point because WHY would start with that??   Since that's not the case, I'm happy speculating about M&R's potential moveset in plus. I'm fairly certain that Amy will appear in the next inevitable Classic Sonic game so you'll hear no complaints from me about her exclusion.
  5. Lanzer


    The saber calls for its master... Member
    Glendale, AZ
    Living life.

    Very early indie start up from the looks of it, I don't think they even have any games out yet.

    I'm wondering just who they knew in the team to get attached to a project like Mania?
  6. Drex


    Lazy perfectionist Member
    I can only pray that they worked directly with Team Mania in some way. In fact I hope that the updates to the game were done before Team Mania went on vacation and the summer release is just to allow time for the animated promo shorts to be created.
  7. 360


    Light Vision Overdrive Oldbie
    United Kingdom
    Sonic Neon
    So a couple of things about Mania Plus from ResetERA. First of all they have a higher resolution version/better look at the Megadrive box:


    Which looks fucking amazing with the blue from the PlayStation 4 case. Also Sega Europe tweeted this:

    Thus confirming it's a true physical release which I guess we all assumed but it's nice to get confirmation. We need that UK/European pre-order link stat.

    EDIT: Sorted out the image via Imgur as it was super large. Super high resolution version here.
  8. Chimera


    I'm not a furry. Tech Member
    Castlevania prettyness
    Sure hoping the HyperKinetic games guys aren't an immediate corporate-mandated replacement for Stealth or PGW or w/e from business conflicts, either because SEGA found PGW to be too expensive and want to drop them or Stealth really got someone pissed off with his message on the steam page :tinfoilhat:

    In all fairness SEGA has a habit of hiring a new damn dev for every occasion, mostly for their port jobs; Hardlight for the PC port of Forces + the mobile game, Devils Details for Gens, Lost World developed in-house by SEGA Europe (which.. why not always haven them do that?), and Blit for Tax's own Sonic CD on all consoles that werent iOS and Android. They tend not to stick with one method, much like their games, and I can't tell if this is out of SEGA trying to find the cheapest possible contractors, bad business experience between SEGA and their hires, some overt lack of loyalty to any given third party company (like they don't WANT to stick with any one dev team), or trying to give "everyone a chance" to work with them... even though most of the time the people they hire come out of fuckin nowhere. The logic behind that all seems lacking.

    Now yeah to the public, Mania's devs "came out of nowhere" as Pagoda's only notable games before Mania were Major Magnet and Spirit Rush... but the guys behind Magnet at least were an offshot of the S2HD team--including Tee--so they + Tax and Stealth were at least known by the community. I don't think ANYone's heard of Devil's Details, certainly not SINCE they ported Generations, especially since that was their last project they even worked on.

    While I'm on this, I don't wanna be all actual conspiracy theory, but Pagoda didn't even retweet the Sonic Mania news on their twitter, let alone post anything besides the Playstation GotY nominations back in december and retweet another company's indie title in February. Also their websitesare down. So yeah that's a bit concerning.

    Though this likely happened recently and no one on their staff has caught it yet; at the time of writing both sites are down and return this image. Also, some of their devs on Twitter (such as Brad Flick and Tom Fry) retweeted the Mania Plus news, and some of them posted a lunch meetup with Tax at GDC... sooooo the more likely answer is SxSW and GDC overlapped and they're prioritizing GDC since, well, of course they are--especially since they're probably trying to branch out past/on top of Sonic at some point.

    Honestly the simpler answer just looks like "Pagoda is mad busy right now" and the new art assets for Mighty and Ray need to be done by SOMEone, so these new guys at HyperKinetic are probably friends of the people at Pagoda and were referred to by them to work on the extra content. That seems like a best-case scenario bc it would mean this is still under trusted hands, to SOME capacity, rather than SEGA throwing out devs that made... their most successful game in years...? That would be a really boneheaded move even for them, since nothing, not even Generations, got as much a landmark success by comparison. Granted this is the same company that saw Gens be MUCH BETTER RECIEVED than any 3D title in recent memory and went to reboot into Lost World, so.. I HOPE they aren't doing that again.

    The SxSW pannel showed that they want to either milk Sonic Mania or develop it further into a true resurgence of the pre-Dreamcast era. Hopefully they realize that means keeping the same people, instead of the Konami school of thought "ANYONE can make a Silent Hill game Sonic game!!," a mentality they have for their own fucking studio.
    (yes people come and go in companies, but there seems to be no designer consistency. That's the point.)

    Seriously the more I look at SEGA the more I see them as a way less vindictive Konami. I hope I'm VERY wrong about that, but with their pattern of shuffling their employees and gameplay styles like Konami does its corporate structure... I'm not convinced otherwise right now.

    Either way let's hope they're serious about keeping the people important to the creation of these games, is all I'm saying. I hope the best to HyperKinetic and look forward to what they bring; I'm sure they'll do fine.

    This is just a pattern I don't like seeing is all.
  9. ICEknight


    Researcher Researcher
    I don't think that most of the people who expected Amy have any actual problems with Ray and Mighty's inclusion. I for one love that they're playable again and I hope that they look as good as the other characters.

    And I've never read the comics, I just know them from seeing the magazine previews of SegaSonic back in the day and from playing said game in MAME a few times.

    EDIT: Chaotix too, of course.
  10. Drex


    Lazy perfectionist Member
    Okay. Throw in Sonic loremasters and forum geeks into the comic fan pile. I'm still saying that most people don't know who they are outside of the extremely minor nods in a couple recent games and whatever YouTube video they stumbled across talking about them being MIA. That could build up some interest, but not a ton.

    Not claiming that people necessarily have a problem with them either. Just that the general response that I've seen from people around the net is that they are either cool with it or underwhelmed with their inclusion mostly because, well, nobody asked for them.

    Just throwing this one out there, but I'd imagine people would be even more excited if the Hooligans were playable instead since they've already been introduced, they're bad guys, and haven't been playable in any side-scrollers before leaving the door wide open for new styles of play.
  11. ICEknight


    Researcher Researcher
    ...The Hooli-what now?
  12. Okamikurainya


    Somewhere in Africa
    Sonic: Time Attacked - MAX
    That isn't what is meant by the video at all. It's not about Amy as such it's about adding a female character which is something I think should have been a major consideration (and I'm sure was). The daughter was just being used as a representation of the younger female demographic.

    Though considering Mania is a celebration of the Classic Universe's roots, I think Mighty and Ray hold seniority over her? I'm about 90% sure Amy will be part of Mania2 or even a future DLC.

    Team Hooligan, the Archie Team name for Fang the Sniper, Bark the Polarbear and Bean the Dynamite.
  13. Chimera


    I'm not a furry. Tech Member
    Castlevania prettyness
    I mean, Team Hooligans is kinda in the same boat as Metal Sonic in that they're boss characters, so their inclusion as playable enemies would be a bit off to say the least. Granted, they're not, well, "real" when they show up, but I'd imagine the logic would play out similarly. You'd have Fang/Bean/Bark fighting themselves, essentially.

    Any reaction to Mighty specifically I think has been positive; it's RAY I think people are more on the fence about.

    Mighty was at least in one more game in the series that wasn't as obscure as a rolling ball arcade cabinet, while Ray's ONLY non-archie appearance has been SegaSonic. Granted the general public doesn't know either of them at all because Chaotix, correct me if I'm wrong, didn't exactly sell well, so you only know about Mighty if you knew about Chaotix for any reason other than its music. Outside of that, the only non-Archie comics connection these characters have is that poster in Generations City Escape. At that point, that was Ray's only appearance in a mainline Sonic title, assuming Chaotix is included. Mighty has been seperated by Ray and made playable, while Ray was always part of the 3 characters in the arcade cabinet. He's so obscure by comparison that announcing him as playable would be like if they anounced Ashura, or Blue Knuckles, or fuckin Wechina. NO one knows about them outside people who watch glitch videos or read Wikis, or diehard fans. The only difference here would be legitimizing glitch characters, which would be kinda cool I guess if they didn't look like fan abominations, but would have the same effect on people thinking "I don't know what this is but why is THIS playable before Amy."

    Hell Ray's only other appearance IS Archie; he's not even relevant in Sonic the Comic like Mighty is, so that's even MORE cultural obscurity! Mighty was at least a figure exposed to british readers in the era before the Dreamcast, associated with the Chaotix early on. Ray didn't appear in that at all, and for Archie he first showed up in Penders' nightmare Knuckles series sometime in the 2000's, well into the Dreamcast era starting to take over. Sure, we love the little guy, but his relevance is so obscure that he functions more as a background character for now.

    so idk I'm guessing people are more understanding of Mighty since he was at least playable once in a traditional Sonic game, whereas 2 staple pre-Dreamcast characters feel almost snubbed by someone, as you said Drex, no one asked for. Why Ray BEFORE Amy?
  14. Jen


    #lapidot Moderator
    Various drawings
    I've been a Sonic fan since I was a kid - and even as a little girl, I couldn't have cared less about having a female playable character in Sonic. Representation is important, but putting in a "token female character" does nothing.

    I'm so happy to see Mighty and Ray again though! It's nice to see such obscure characters getting some love :)

    "But no-one asked for them!"... implying that developers always have to do what people "want" as opposed to what actually works for them and for their game.
  15. MastaSys


    Well i want Amy because the hammer is fun in the Advance series and Psi's hacks, not because she's a girl.
    And i don't buy the one button excuse, when Super Sonic is triggered with a second one.
    And if that's too much you can implement her with a peel-out + instashield combo... And curl when she really needs too ( know like in Advance?)

    But i have nothing against Mighty and Ray. In fact I'm glad Ray's back, he have such a fun design that's a crime not to use it since 93.
  16. Lilly


    United States
    Shang Mu Architect
    Maybe Ray was included specifically because he's such an obscure part of Sonic's past? Mania overall has been great at giving the limelight to many older Sonic and SEGA-related things very few would remember, as well as characters no one has seen in literal decades, so Ray's addition must be like the cherry on top.

    As much as I would have liked Amy to be in Mania, I also don't get the salt over it. My bias towards female characters has more to do with preferring cuteness over "coolness", so if the (unusually) rare cute male option shows itself, I'll play as them too. Tails, and his new adorable animations in Mania, more than satisfied my personal preferences.

    Strangely, I've also gotten bored of Amy over the years. Her obsessive personality is less and less appealing to me as other new female characters are introduced. I find myself doodling Blaze, and now Tangle, much more often. Either of those two have an especially microscopic chance of ever officially being in a classic Sonic game. :v:
  17. Harmony Friends

    Harmony Friends

    it's the whole gang Oldbie
    Honestly this actually makes me way MORE confident - if they're a complete nobody, it's way more likely that they're working on it because they're connected to Tax/Stealth/PagodaWest, and not because they're just a random contractor for Sega.
  18. Fadaway


    Everybody is waxing poetic about Mighty and Ray, and Amy's apparent absence. Meanwhile, I'm over here wanting Ristar. They should do an Amy & Ristar crossover spinoff game.

    Although not a big Ray and Mighty fan myself, I'm excited to see what they can bring to the game and I think it'll be great if done well. The inclusion of those specific characters is intriguing if nothing else.
  19. I'm not sure HyperKinetic is "replacing" anyone, truth be told. Stealth RT'd all the Plus news and whatnot, their names are still in the fact sheet, Tom Fry RT'd the news, etc. etc. That being said, if HyperKinetic came as a recommendation to the project, then honestly they'll probably do a good job, whatever their part in it is.
  20. Antheraea


    Bug Hunter Member
    >Is a chick
    >Honestly doesn't give a single crap about no Amy

    I've never been the biggest fan of Amy TBH...especially after they basically retconned her character development post-Adventure 1. Her story in Adventure 1 was pretty interesting for her char development at the end but then they just...threw it out and she became a fangirl again, and I've always found her two-dimensional and kind of pointless at the end of the day.

    And what is Classic Amy's personality? "oooooh I'm gonna follow Sonic and then get kidnapped in the second stage!" No thanks. She just doesn't have much going for her in terms of being an interesting character outside of "she is pink and wears a dress, therefore chick". Ray and Mighty at least have both novelty and a 20-year absence from the series going for them. I don't have any special place for them in my heart but I'm at least curious to see what they'll do with them, as well as what this means for their appearances in other Sonic titles and works (such as Mania Adventures).

    If we're talking about lady characters that I'd want in, I'd kinda kill for a retro Classic version of Blaze, who is just plain cool.