Sonic Mania Plus (Consoles Physical; PC Digital) - Non-Leaks Thread

While the Phantom Ruby is seen in both the Modern and Classic Universes, it's clear that what the ruby is capable of differs between the two. Most notable of this is the literal warping of space and time which transports Classic Sonic into the Modern dimension. Had this all been nothing but virtual reality perception BS, then Classic Sonic wouldn't end up in the REAL modern dimension but in an illusionary one.

Now, consider this: What if there are TWO phantom rubies? One in the Classic dimension which is that legendary eighth timestone (or rather a Master timestone) and one in the Modern Dimension that creates illusions?

Given the events of Sonic Forces (including the prequel comic) may just be about a year of events, it doesn't line up too well with Sonic Mania. Keep in mind that the Ruby in Mania was indeed the original in that it was usable by multiple parties (Robotnik, the Heavies, and possibly Classic Sonic at the end). So unless for some unnecessary reason that at the end of Sonic Mania, the phantom ruby is sent back in time in the Modern Era (or Classic Sonic sent forward), it seems to me that both the modern Eggman and Classic Robotnik had an original phantom Ruby at the same time.

Now, the one chink in this is that at the end of Sonic Forces, Classic Sonic doesn't go back until the Phantom Ruby is destroyed (I don't know if this is ever stated anywhere but it is what happens). Granted, it took what looks like several hours for that to happen but whatever.

 

Let's think about it this way, the Phantom Ruby was written as some kind of element to bring Classic and Modern together, much like the Time Eater.

So, the discrepancies between the stones seen in the game are probably due to the writers being different and the rushed development, both for Forces and Mania.

 

A lot of people won't be happy with that answer, like that's basically saying screw cannon, continuity and consitency. For me the Phantom Ruby remixes the space time which is why the HBH end up turning into unique robots, why the stages change terrain and why the events of Sonic 3 are in a way rewritten. The timeline in Mania is parallel to 16bit Sonic 3 so that can remain untouched but having it set up this way also allows different versions of characters to jump to different universes if they have the tools to do so.

 

In Sonic Runners, it's revealed that Knuckles has been keeping the Master Emerald in a secret temple to hide it from Eggman and also to allow Knuckles to go on his adventures. It's not clear where the temple is, but it seems to be on "Sonic's world". Given that we see the island floating in Sa3, the temple must have some special power to allow the island to float (although Runners doesn't hint at this).

During Runners, Eggman invades the temple and destroys the Emerald. After re-assembling it, Knuckles moves it to a new location (I think. It might also be that he puts it back in the temple). Omochao and the animal friends take over as guardians to allow Knuckles to continue adventuring with Sonic & Tails (so I guess this means Knuckles is no longer a guardian, or at least just the guardian in name only).

It's interesting the Emerald is shown back in the comic, as it doesn't really fit in with what happened with Runners.

 

That's providing you agree with the two-dimension idea. I don't, I'm content to have one long timeline of Classic Sonic growing into Modern Sonic.

Because lets face it, the only reason they changed the younger selves to alternate dimension selves is so they don't have to answer "when will Classic Sonic grow into Adventure Sonic?" and to let the Mania subseries go unopposed by those of us who have a timeline in mind. And yes, they were temporal counterparts, not dimensional.

"If you would be so kind, gentleman genius Doctor Eggman of the Future?"
"It would be my pleasure, most excellent and efficacious Doctor Eggman of the Past!"

Otherwise, Sonic Adventure shows scenes from Sonic CD, using the Adventure models only to save space, and Sonic Pocket Adventure shows Robotnik actually change into his Adventure attire after the whole game in his classic outfit. There was some clear evolution going on around the time as the series shifted from the Classics to the Adventure games.

 

I don't like with the two dimension idea, but I'm guessing they probably did it to avoid stepping on each other toes. E.g. Modern Sonic can do something without having to worry that it will contradict with a Mania game and vice-versa.

Although they brought up the two dimension without any explanation, so I wouldn't be surprised if they later change their minds.


Going back to Runners and the Forces comic: I guess if Eggman was no longer causing trouble, Knuckles could have taken the Master Emerald back to Angel Island and resumed guarding it.

 

The irony being that there wasn't much writing in Sonic Mania. The Phantom Ruby being a powerful space warping mcguffin worked well to explain just about everything in the game. It is only the explanation given in Forces that makes things fail. As separate games, the logic is mostly sound but as two games united by a singular object, the explanation falters. Having two separate Rubies (seeing as how we're going the dimensional route ala retcon) is the simplest solution.

Yeah, let's just Retcon Sonic Forces. Nobody would care anyway. Just let them keep Edgelord Infinite (so Shadow can kick him in the balls) and toss out everything else.

 

It's never bothered them before. I don't recall Sonic Adventure having the Insta-Shield or the Super Peelout, which I could easily see as a method of 'boost' at the start of a level in the Modern games. So I honestly don't see that as a viable explanation.

 

I meant story related things (not character moves). For example, they can bring back Metal Sonic in Mania without having to worry about contradicting Sonic 4. (Although Mania was quite smart with Metal Sonic, as they show multiple Metals on Little Planet, which gives them room to bring back clones in Mania allowing Sonic 4 to be the revival of the original Metal Sonic. And of course Sonic 4 fixed a problem that didn't need fixing as Chaotix had already explained Metal Sonic's revival).

 

It's worth pointing out that Sonic Team vetoed an Eggman Sonic origin story in the Sonic Boom pitch. They do care about continuity even if they aren't very good at it.

 

We see the Master Emerald in its usual altar in Sonic Advance 3.

 

I forgot about that. That Emerald certainly moves around! I think that was the last time we saw the Emerald on Angel Island, so the move to the temple must have happened afterwards.

 

Knuckles Chaotix, which is apparently canonical again.

So where DOES Sonic 4 take place in all of this? It's clearly following the original trilogy, but with Modern Sonic?

 

It's assumed Sonic 4 takes place like right before Sonic Adventure I think, given the designs.

Speaking of Mania, what were those broken Metal Sonics in tubes doing during the boss fight anyway? And why they weren't scrap heap versions of Sonic 2's Silver Sonic and Sonic 3's Mecha Sonic I'll never know, but it was a missed opportunity.

 

Didn't they say Sonic 4 takes shortly place after Sonic & Knuckles? I personally put it there, as that way Sonic The Fighters can finish of the story (although, of course, you have to ignore the designs).
Although, I guess with the two timelines thing, Sonic 4 is Modern Sonic's route after S&K, while Mania is Classic Sonic's.

 

Pretty much this.

Sonic 4 Episode 1's digital in-game manual (on Xbox 360 at least, I'm assuming the others, PS3/Wii as well).
-Featuring enhanced gameplay elements, including the classic Sonic Spin Dash, and the versatile Homing Attack, Sonic 4 picks up right where Sonic and Knuckles™ left off.
-With Eggman finally defeated, Sonic runs off to explore new zones and uncharted lands. Dr. Eggman, furious at the destruction of the Death Egg and the failure of his plans, puts all of his most devious schemes into action.

This same text is on Sega.com's description of the game online as well, but putting web promo stuff aside, the in-game manual definitely confirms the same thing which is what I go by - as the manual also mentions the events of Sonic 2 being on West Side Island and all that, we know it's still in line with the Japan MD story.

In other words, Sonic 4 and Mania are two direct sequels to S3&K depending on whether it's Classic or Modern Sonic. (although we all know Sonic the Fighters is really S4:Ep III :v: )

 

Iizuka's been pretty consistent about not regarding Chaotix as canonical to Modern Sonic. But it seems like it is probably considered canonical to the Classic Sonic of Sonic Mania.

The easiest way to think of it is, if it's green eyed Sonic, it's the Modern Sonic dimension. If it's black eyed Sonic, it's the Classic Sonic dimension. Beyond that, Modern Sonic also appears to have had adventures similar to Sonic 1, 2, 3&K and CD.

Do we know what the Japanese in-game manual says? The American website got things wrong about S3&K, treating Knuckles' story as parallel to Sonic's, when it actually takes place afterwards.

 

Man, I remember when I said I considered Sonic the Fighters Sonic 4 Ep. 3, and people thought I was being an idiot. Nice to see it's more popular now :v:

Regardless, does anything regarding Sonic Mania say WHEN it takes place? All I can recall is that it takes place "following Sonic 3 and Knuckles".

 

Out of interest, has Iizuka said anything about it, outside of the Sonic Heroes interview he did with EGM?

 

Yeah, ignore the American website, the English in-game manual was a bit more consistent I recall, and the Sega.com site doesn't include that part at all anymore.
Anyway, I've got a google translate from the Japanese Sonic 4 site and we've got:

-Eggman lost in the battle against Master Emerald.
-In order to fulfill the desire of overthrowing Sonic, challenge Sonic with a further enhanced power mechanism.

Although it would be cool to see if the actual in-game JP manual had anything more/different to add, but sadly it doesn't look like the manuals are archived anywhere except on the games themselves!