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Sonic Mania: Hacking Discussion

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by Chimera, Aug 29, 2017.

  1. LukyHRE

    LukyHRE

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    This is most likely; I don't think that the HBH were even a concept at that point. So something must have been in place for the miniboss.
     
  2. Shoemanbundy

    Shoemanbundy

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    It's honestly not all that great of a boss. Very basic and not much to it. Makes sense they thought they could do something better. I still love the fact they kept it hidden in there though.
     
  3. codenamegamma

    codenamegamma

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    Always the last to come here and find my videos posted. but at least people like it.



    Well i sent him a tweet, and i haven't gotten any response, luckily it got picked up a retweeted a lot, but nothing so far.
    https://twitter.com/Codenamegamma/status/910858893164605441
    also sent one to @SonicTheHedgehog to see if i can provoke some kind of response but i haven't seen anything and it seems like this tweet didn't get picked up at all.
    https://twitter.com/Codenamegamma/status/910998857839816704

    as you can see here, he mentions the original pitch and shows a little of the level, it also shows that it was the first one made, so if SPZ was pitched as originally it could have been designed as an ACT 1 with an Act 2 to come later, but then later in development after the decision about the hard-boiled heavies was made they decided to make Act 1 and Act 2 and make a new act 1, and since it wasn't needed anymore and they needed an eggman boss for act 2 it had to be scrapped, there was no point in redoing it for Flying Battery because it's just full of Style Cues for this level.
    http://youtu.be/ZtZYJSPOp2o?t=397

    one thing I am getting tired of is in the comments of my video there's tons of people getting it wrong that it was a scrapped Flying Battery boss. when that's nowhere near the case. if it was in the assets for FBZ then I would have been forced to use FBZ to spawn in, in this case, the object and sprites were in the SPZ act 2 folder and just removed so the game would never load them. After getting it to load, I found out that it crashed as soon as I hit it.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vakz01ms6Bo

    so my thought was that every time I've seen a crash using my unrestricted debug its mostly because the game tried to spawn or use an object that wasn't loaded. that's why Egg Reverie Sonic only worked on Mirage Saloon and Studiopolis Zone act 1 is because they share the Flash object with Egg Reverie Zone to make the screen flash. so dashing in those stages worked fine. in green hill, because the object isn't loaded that makes that flash it just doesn't know what to do and crashes.

    so my thought was either a companion object was missing or the object itself is just not fully coded. so i took another look at something in the sprite folder that wasn't in the stageconfig list but was in the folder, and sadly only EggJanken.bin was the only extra file. so i took a look at the RSDK Extract Object list, sure enough, there were 2 listings.

    [EggJanken]

    [EggJankenPart]

    After that, i was sure it was fully there but missing that companion object, so i ran a search on the folder for "Part" and got no results. so i just figured id give it a shot and tried to find something that's 13 letters long in the stage config.bin i can replace with this needed "EggJankenPart" object and sure enough i the weather boss, has the perfect length but replacing it crashed the game on load. so i tried something else luckily there was one other object with the same name that wasn't as needed so i replaced it and sure enough after spawning the boss in and hitting it, it didn't crash.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vZbWXPp46s

    now there was still a problem, as you can hear at the end the signpost definitely dropped and it's in the list of objects that get loaded on EVERY stage so I thought maybe its hardcoded to get dropped at the end. so i used a different method where instead of spawning the boss with debug, i hijacked 2 rings at the beginning of the stage and got their object ID's then used the Manic editor to place them where i needed them, then got rid of the existing WeeatherMobile and TV Screen, moved the new ones in position and sure enough as i already knew. forcing those item id's cause those objects to spawn without me going into debug, and because i used the level editor to move those 2 ring locations they're in the right place in the stage to be used. but there was still one problem.
    [​IMG]

    i had wanted to reuse that unused TV, but sadly because i hijacked a ring, the layer was all wrong and i had to remove it. After that, it was just as easy as making a video that turned out to be a pain in the ass as the positioning just didn't feel right. if i placed the boss too high knuckles couldn't hit it, and any player could just stand under it and not get hurt. if i place it to low, there's no way to get under it without getting hit and its too easy. so once i got the positioning right and killed my discord sounds and steam notifications and told people to leave me an alone. After 4 tries i was able to get this footage, as what i think is the most accurate representation of how the boss would have looked and felt like in game. sadly the signpost never dropped and i have no clue why maybe the top of the stage was open at one point where now there's geometry above it. either way, this is the best it's going to get.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up4dXMHp4j0

    it took me 400+ hours in game to get to this point so as of now, besides trying to get the SP500's working i think we're pretty much done finding unused stuff in mania.

    sorry about the jank links but apperently the forum doesn't like me properly documenting everything.
     
  4. codenamegamma

    codenamegamma

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    Might as well post it before someone else done.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nbed_pTmTlo

    i left what i think is a pretty detailed account of my findings and thoughts in the description of the video so hopefully, that will last a bit longer than doing another post like I did above.
     
  5. Atendega

    Atendega

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    It's so goddamn cool that these things are functional. Excellent work on all this stuff!
     
  6. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    Question: I don't suppose bonus stage layout editing has been looked into yet?
     
  7. codenamegamma

    codenamegamma

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    not by anyone I'm in contact with.
     
  8. MainMemory

    MainMemory

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    Mr. Potatobadger was looking into it, but he lives in Florida, so he's got other things to worry about right now.

    As soon as anyone figures out how to extract the relevant data from the scene files, I will make a fork of S3SSEdit for Mania.
     
  9. EyeKey

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    If you are talking about the blue spheres bonus, it is just tiles map. With very small modification to my editor it is possible to edit it.
    [​IMG]

    EDIT: I updated my editor, it is now possible in the latest release.
     
  10. Frostav

    Frostav

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    That Egg Janken video makes me think. Comments on the youtube video say that SZ1 was supposed to be act 2, and not act 1 as it appears in the final game. It was like that in the original pitch, and Heavy Gunner is the only HBH to be a mid-boss, something that makes sense if he were originally an act 2 boss.

    So what was the original plan for SZ1? Well, the Love Tester object for SZ2 (which, of course, used to be act 1) makes me think that it was NOT going to be a studio theme--that gimmick doesn't really fit graphically or thematically with the whole "Egg TV" business. I think that Act 1 of Studiopolis was originally supposed to take place in the alleyways of the city in the background of what is now act 1 (with Egg Janken as the midboss), and then for act 2 you'd go high up in the city with the buildings in the background.
     
  11. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    Doesn't each bonus stage file contain a value indicating the number of blue spheres it has? I would think it does, as the counter is off in one of the bonus stages, so it ends before you get all of them.
     
  12. EyeKey

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    No. When I edit the blue spheres the counter change accordingly. Do you know the number of that bonus stage?

    (and now it is in the latest release)

    EDIT: Added support for UFO levels editing too:
    [​IMG]
    (In the latest release now)
     
  13. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    Luck-based, twitchy attacks that can't be anticipated, insta-death, stays invincible for too long...

    It seems to feature every wrong thing that people have pointed out about the bosses, and then some more.
     
  14. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    It's the 16th stage:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  15. EyeKey

    EyeKey

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    The counter starts at 127. So maybe it is just the limit? it is CHAR_MAX (0x7F).
     
  16. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

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    This was already explained in the Mania topic. The blue sphere counts are correct, there's a bug that reduces the counter by one too many if you clear them in a certain formation.
     
  17. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    Oh, just another bug :v:

    Funny how the best Sonic game we've gotten in recent years is also the glitchiest.
     
  18. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    Perhaps, but the base game is so good that they can be looked over :v:

    Plus they're being fixed so it's not like they've just said "hey screw it, here's your game. Enjoy having the music pitter out 10% of the time"
     
  19. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    Touché.
     
  20. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

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    Well, it's still less buggy than Sonic 3 & Knuckles. + - Also less good.