Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by TimmiT, May 17, 2013.
Is that why I saw so many bottles of formaldehyde coming in here? Shit!
I could say the same thing about you and your argument
but that'd just be dickish.
Especially if that's all I said and nothing else.
So, if you disagree, you're free to.
If you want to add something to the debate, do that.
But let's not go around just saying we're sick of each other like dicks while not adding anything worthwhile to the debate.
If you don't like the debate then just don't respond. I'm only going to respond to things I'm given so if you don't want to hear me, don't talk to me.
I could spend a while arguing the reverse. Lost World has heavier classic visual inspirations with some things but misses the mark hard in other ways. I certainly don't recall everything in classic Sonic being featureless simple vector art shapes and all the environments made of astroturf and fisher price plastic.
I agree that the non Sonic and Tails characters in Adventure are far removed from Sonic gameplay. I don't agree with them being the way they are at all, it's a mess of terrible design choices.
What Adventure does have, even if broken, is raw freeform gameplay and slope mechanics, which reflects far more what was established as Sonic gameplay. Lost World, like the other modern games, is a patchwork of disjointed mechanics and arbitrary gameplay segments trying to make a whole.
Level design is another matter. That's gonna branch into a whole lot more if we go down that road.
see what I did there
I didn't intend to insult you, and I don't want you to leave the conversation, I just wish you wouldn't keep saying the same thing over and over again. We should at least TRY to say something meaningful about the game's successes and shortcomings.
Or we could end this monotonous discussion and focus on the important things like how this game is poorly optimized (really how did they fuck that up) and mods.
Come on now guys. :v:
Okay that's more specific and gives me something to work with.
You're right, I've made my point to death now. The subject is just getting stretched out.
I'll focus on where the topic leads instead of where it's been.
On the topic of mods, I'm quite excited because this game is probably much more friendly towards porting levels from other games, given its more traditional gameplay style. I'd like to see some levels from Gamecube-era platformers converted, it would be interesting to see how they would play.
After all this talk of "hey Valkyria was a great port so this will be too" and SEGA Europe's PC expertise... it's kinda disappointing. Definitely is starting to look like this was just forced out to fill a void. Do we now know for definite who handled the port, be is Sonic Team, SoE, Devil's Details or someone else?
It wasn't me
Inspired by != doing it in the same way. It's a different iteration on what the classic Sonic games did.
And going by that logic, the Tribes games are the best 3D Sonic games cause of the slope physics and how open the maps are.
Also just gonna quote myself from a different thread here:
Level design isn't just another matter, it's the main thing that made Sonic, well, Sonic aside from the speed. And whether the speed is achieved through momentum, a boost button or a run button doesn't change it from being a Sonic game as they are all different means that give you the same result. And in the case of 3D Sonic, Lost World is probably the one 3D game that got the level design the most right outside of maybe Heroes.
I know but it's still weird to me.
I still can't get over that this game has a button for running fast. It's just...awkward... :v:
Also is it just me, or does the homing attack not always lock on as it should? I've ran through levels not losing a single ring until the homing attack lock-on suddenly sees a bird or a plane above the screen and locks on to that instead of what's ahead of Sonic.
Emerald hill and hill top (the two "organic" stages from Sonic 2) immediately come to mind which I can easily described as plastic. If anything Sonic Lost World's art style is one thing Sonic Team nailed this time. I'd love to play another main series game with graphics like in SLW.
preferably featuring classic Sonic cause c'mon SLW art style is simply made for Classic Sonic
AAAnyway... I'm using a generic (not xbox) controller and still can't figure out 2 things. How do I do a wind strike attack to stun enemies? And how do I scale walls horizontally when I used the parkour button to scale them vertically first (like when I need to get Sonic around the corner). Or I'm just fucked cause I don't use the xbox controller?
Admittedly the following segment is most definitely a tangent from the topic, but...
You say this as if both games were genuine returns to classic Sonic gameplay (and if you want to factor in aesthetics, then sure, visuals too) that didn't have their own respective issues. I'd argue Sonic 4 selling badly can be directly attested to it widely being perceived as a mediocre attempt at reviving the Genesis gameplay by Genesis Sonic fans. Sonic Generations was better in some respects but was still off the mark in classic gameplay, and that game also had the modern Sonic half to it, so it wasn't entirely a classic Sonic venture on Sega's part.
You also gotta define what the common standards or your standards are for a game selling bad. I'll give you both Sonic 4 episodes selling poorly (Episode I was confirmed to have sold one million copies on four/five platforms...a year after its release. Sega seemed pretty proud of that though, so whatever. But Episode II as far as we know hasn't even reached that number, and the Sonic 4 charade stopped with that title). Sonic Generations though was confirmed to have sold over 1.63 million across all four platforms it was released after two months of its release, I'd hesitate to call that a flop, especially given the other holiday season releases around the time (Uncharted 3, Modern Warfare 3, Skyrim, and AC: Revelations to name a few).
But even if we were going to ignore all that and say yes, both games sold poorly, it's a moot point because both Sonic Boom games are on record for selling worse than most Sonic titles, let alone those two titles; to the point of arguably being the poorest selling games in the series to date. Which might be a reason all three branches of recent Sega PR have been speaking about taking Sonic back to his roots (again) or having future games play closer to the Genesis titles. Though I'm still highly skeptical that if they do it again, the third time will be the charm.
Oh right, Lost World PC. :v:
You know one change in Lost World I didn't like? The multiple iterations of the HA (kick HA, charged HA) that were used to defeat specific enemies, and how the standard HA was retooled to destroy multiple enemies. I hope both aspects get scrapped and the HA is reworked back to how it operated in the Adventure titles.
You know one change in Lost World I did like? The spindash. Admittedly it's more similar to the boost mechanic, but not only do I think it is really satisfying to use, I think I like it more than the spindash than the Adventure games. I hope they keep this for the next title.
I hope we get a Tails mod soon seeing as he's my favourite character.
That's a hint by the way guys, :v: . Me wants a Tails mod for Lost World please you beautiful talented people :v: .
Well on my end, it's not that I dislike Sonic's movement in LW because it's not like the classics. It's just that stopping on a dime, binary movement and being completely unaffected by slope terrain just doesn't feel natural; in fact it just feels clunky and just not fun to control in the context of a game like Sonic.
It kind of sucks because I feel like where boost games succeeded in speed/flow but failed in being a platformer, this game feels like it's the other way around, even when it's base ideas put it so close to gold.
It's funny because I feel Sonic controls better when he Boosts as Super Sonic than when he runs in his normal form.
I agree that his controls are really poor in Lost World. It's really sad, because I think Lost World gets quite a lot right but unfortunately it's let down by poor controls and a weaker second half. That said, I don't feel like it succeeds as a platformer seeing as the walking jumping is so awkward because he jumps such a short distance due to the lack of speed and momentum he builds up.
Tbh I think it does succeed a good bit at making a decent platformer. It's the first Sonic game I could think of in a solid long time that's given me a decent amount of higher and lower routes to explore, and some incentive to actually roam around the maps thanks to those mini-capsules and similar things. Sadly it gets ruined thanks to the sloppy implementation of parkour, that kick junk, and how much it wants to throw you on an automated sequence at every other turn, but it's still a decent start I guess.
And let me restate, I love those mini-capsules and I genuinely hope they return in the next game because they're just so much fun to find and boop on. Absolutely my favorite thing from LW.
Quoted cause I still want my question answered.
The "wind strike" thing is only in the 3DS version. The Wii U/ and PC versions have the kick instead. Hope you enjoy figuring which enemies to kick and which one to home on!
To move horizontally when you start climbing a wall vertically, just hold left or right and tap jump to make Sonic hop in that direction. If he gets to a corner, he'll swing around it and the run forwards along the wall.
The wind strike attack isn't a thing in the Wii U/PC version. You can move horizontally on walls after running up them vertically first by holding left or right and then pressing the jump button.
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