don't click here

Sonic Lost World (Wii U, 3DS, PC) Megathread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by TimmiT, May 17, 2013.

  1. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    I don't think this has ever happened to me in that game... I mean, the graphics in Lost World are cool and all but, in all seriousness, Iizuka is full of crap when he says that Generations was way too detailed for a Sonic game.

    Maybe Classic Sonic doesn't fit so nicely against those too realistic environments (now this could indeed be argued), but thing is, Modern Sonic wasn't even created with this kind of cartoony worlds in mind. He felt right at home in Generations because the art style showed an evolution from the Adventure games, which tried to show as many details as the Dreamcast could handle, and thus became the style of Modern Sonic from then on (Sonic 2006 just pushed this hilariously too far). So each Sonic "model" (Classic and Modern) had its own style pretty well established and in my oppinion, by seemingly ignoring that, Iizuka is proving that he doesn't really know where to go with the franchise.

    In fact, after seeing most of the locations in Lost World, I'm even more convinced that something like this mockup I posted earlier would have made more sense in those environments:
    Hell, that would have forced me to buy a Wii U for it, had the game's flaws not been so glaring.


    In the meanwhile, while preparing their next big Zelda, you have Nintendo releasing a new game featuring Classic Link, in a completely remade world that can be considered an upgrade of the SNES classic, since not only it does retain the art style and the character iteration that was specifically designed for it but, more importantly, keeps the game mechanics that worked back then and adds to them rather than fixing what's not broken. Going by the reviews, this game is really well designed and is going to sell like hotcakes among current Zelda fans, while possibly bringing back some old fans that were turned off by the "realistic" and "toon" branches (which haven't been discontinued, as far as we know).

    Now that's knowing the potential for the many sides of a brand, so perhaps Iizuka should take more cues from Zelda rather than Mario. Thank goodness that Taxman and Stealth are making those sweet remakes, while waiting for the next Sonic game that I'll enjoy at least as much as the classic side of Generations.
     
  2. Tiller

    Tiller

    Member
    836
    0
    16
    HDK & World Runner
    Really that whole section makes me wonder why didn't they go with giant setpieces to explore and screw around in instead of floating junk and tubes. The parkour would have been much more fun.
     
  3. Josh

    Josh

    Oldbie
    2,123
    1,087
    93
    USA
    Had an interesting experience with the 3DS demo. After absolutely DESPISING the controls and feel in the Wii U version, the 3DS is such an improvement! Just having a tutorial level helps. Double jumping neither cancels your spin dash nor makes you vulnerable, you have some actual control in mid-air... Sonic feels SO much more like he's supposed to, and less on a glitchy auto-pilot. I daresay it's crunchy, even.

    I found myself replaying Windy Hill Zone 1 over and over again 'til I got an S-rank, and speedrunning is not even REMOTELY something I'd be inclined to do on Wii U. (Actually, the other day I was looking to replay some levels, but I'd keep quitting out of each one after remembering how infuriating it was.)

    Shame, then, that the 3DS level design breaks it pretty quickly. If the Wii U version could've had some better level design and controlled like THAT, I'd have been okay with it.
     
  4. Overlord

    Overlord

    Now playable in Smash Bros Ultimate Moderator
    19,319
    1,014
    93
    Long-term happiness
    Actually, to some degree I agree with him - at speed in Generations it CAN be difficult to pick Sonic out from the rest of the scenery. Lost World is much better in this respect.
     
  5. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    Well, I can think of other factors that could lead to that situation, which aren't related to the background detail.

    For example, the blur that's applied when (Classic) Sonic gets some speed was absolutely unnecessary, and makes me wonder why would anybody think it was a good thing to be added in a fast sidescroller where you need to clearly see what's coming to you.

    And then there was this tint Sonic got depending of his surroundings, making him greenish in Green Hill, etc, which made him not stand out as much as he should. Toning down or just completely eliminating these two things would have improved the overall visibility while being able to keep the graphics as lush as they wanted.


    + - Of course, there's also the framerate in the console versions (which did suck for such a fast game), but as you all know it was fixed for the PC port, so I'll keep it hidden right here. =P  
     
  6. Mastered Realm

    Mastered Realm

    Member
    3,835
    560
    93
    -
    In fact that should HELP you picking him from the scenery because that was only applied on the background and making the background blurrier makes thin objects (like rings and spikes) stand out against it.

    That's called life. The sun on the grass was so strong that it reflected on the grass and then illuminated his muzzle from below with the color of the grass. That actually happens in real world:

    [​IMG]

    Look at her arm.
     
  7. Andrew75

    Andrew75

    Technical Artist Member
    2,032
    108
    43
    Project AXSX(Sonic Xtreme) + Misc Projects
    I felt that the camera was pulled back too far in Generations and even in the 2.5D sections of LW. For me its harder to control a small little dot on screen vs a larger dot. Especially if the camera distances changes in the same area the feeling of speed also changes a little bit as well as judging jump distances.
    that's actually no problem for me, but it gets annoying to have to adjust to it everytime.
     
  8. Mastered Realm

    Mastered Realm

    Member
    3,835
    560
    93
    -
    Try Lost World 3DS so... the camera is so zoomed it you can't see where you're going to, specially in Windy Hill 3.
     
  9. Andrew75

    Andrew75

    Technical Artist Member
    2,032
    108
    43
    Project AXSX(Sonic Xtreme) + Misc Projects
    Hmm.... will have to watch a video

    Actually watching that video now.. The camera feels fine. but the level props and environment pieces are kind of on the big side. Perhaps they should model smaller to match classic scales?
    I guess that's why things are zoomed out in the Wii U version so you can see past all the huge ass props and platform placements.. that or draw distance lol
     
  10. Mastered Realm

    Mastered Realm

    Member
    3,835
    560
    93
    -
    Do you seriously think this is 'fine'?

    (Turn the volume down, heavily clipped audio)


    No it not. If you try going the upper routes you can't tell if theres a pit below you or not!
     
  11. Reddie

    Reddie

    Member
    7
    0
    0
    Still stuck on Labyrinth Zone...
    Sonic Adventure 2: Genesis Edition
    I bought the 3DS version.

    Seriously guys. The game's fine. Frozen Factory 3 might be (IS) terrible, and the parkour might not work as it should in some parts, but that's pretty much it.
    I mean, they even got a better, more Sonic-ish 2D level design than the Wii U version.
    Also, even if it abuses of speed boosters and springs, it's not on the Wii U version's level, where sometimes the parkour is completely ignored and you just bounce up through hidden springs.


    Special stages are terrible though. I bet nobody's gonna play that in Online Multiplayer. What were they thinking? Nobody plays any 3DS game (or any game that isn't a dancing game) standing up, usually people SIT or LAY DOWN. Just sayin'.
     
  12. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    That looks like it would be impossible to play properly unless you have the layouts memorized... Kinda like Sonic 2 for the Game Gear (not the Master System version, that one had enough reaction time).
     
  13. The 2D levels in the 3DS version are just awful for me. The camera is too close, and the amount of times there's been bottomless pits is really bad, I can't tell you how many times I've fallen because I can't see far ahead to know if there's a platform or not meaning I have to go back to find a spring or something to land on some slow moving platform as it goes along said bottomless pit.

    I know people will say that Sonic 1 has slow moving platforms like marble zone and the like, but there it was much shorter and the platform was over lava, which hurts you but at least it doesn't instantly kill you if you have rings. You can even pick up an invincibility box and just run across which was cool to do.

    Also, getting assist jets or robots is frustrating when you need to go across a homing attack chain and it shoots the one I was homing for. This is worse in the 2D sections because it's harder to avoid the capsule because it's right above you.
     
  14. Edited about half of my own Lost World review over the weekend. I'll try to have it online by next weekend.
     
  15. Mastered Realm

    Mastered Realm

    Member
    3,835
    560
    93
    -
    Also notice how on 3:48 the serial homing attack puts him over a pit, you COULDN'T have escaped that and it happens a lot on every other zone.
     
  16. Reddie

    Reddie

    Member
    7
    0
    0
    Still stuck on Labyrinth Zone...
    Sonic Adventure 2: Genesis Edition
    Yes, it looks fine. It's not spectacular or awesome, just fine. It's not that bad, either. At lease feels more Sonic-ish than the Wii U version's layouts anyways.

    Endless pits aren't that terrible or anything. Seriously, you're raging over something really trivial. You only lose a life, duh. It's not like checkpoints don't exist. I mean, they are everywhere these days.

    I must agree on the camera issue though. I don't know exactly why they didn't put the camera a little more farther. I don't think Draw Distance was the issue, since in 3D stages it's alright if not that impressive, and most slowdowns happen on 2D. Weird.
    Still, I think there's too much bashing in this thread, or for this game actually. It has a lot of good stuff that people (not only here but on almost every site) tend to overlook.
     
  17. GeneHF

    GeneHF

    SEGA-ier than you'll potentially ever be. Site Staff
    8,429
    59
    28
    Scenic Studiopolis
    Complete Global Conquest
    >defending bad level design

    My goodness, the fanbase really does have beaten spouse syndrome.
     
  18. SonicHyuga

    SonicHyuga

    Member
    48
    0
    6
    Tennessee
    Sky Rail (Generations) and Aquarium Park (Generations)
    The real issue with both of these games are the levels that most of us will never go back to. Honestly I only ever play like 4 of the levels from the Wii U version. The rest are just uninteresting or too frustrating to have to go through again.

    Bottomless pits aren't terrible, most platforming games use them; it's when they are placed everywhere that pushes it too far. The controls is another thing that doesn't make it enjoyable, either. I was noticing also on the 3DS demo that, just by going left or right, Sonic is literally thrown to the sides of the stage when in-air. The only real issue with the Wii U version is the parkour, unresponsive lock-on, and that he falls like a rock at times.

    Hell, this game has potential, but they can't just keep doing little test games (Unleashed/Sonic4Ep1 for example) like this.
     
  19. Covarr

    Covarr

    Sentient Cash Register Member
    4,233
    3
    18
    Trapped in my own thoughts.
    Two stageplays, a screenplay, and an album
    Lost World 3DS has the same very specific problem that I've observed with the levels in virtually every Dimps-developed Sonic game (except Advance 1), and it isn't that there's too many bottomless pits. Rather, its how those bottomless pits are placed. They like to put a gimmick right before a pit to slow you down, so you'll be able to see the pit coming, and respond accordingly, whether that means jumping onto a specific spring, pressing a button, or doing a platforming-heavy section. The reason this goes wrong is that it's really easy to completely miss the setpiece that slows you down. Far too often, I'll be moving really fast, and jump in a seemingly safe stretch. A jump at full speed from a high point can get a lot of distance, and it's far too common to jump right over a small set of spikes that would dead-stop me if I were running. By the time I see the pit (or in some games, the warning sign), I'm already moving WAY TOO fast and in the middle of a jump over which I have little control, and there's no way I can recover.

    What they're basically doing is making level segments that actively discourage cautious play, and then immediately following these segments with areas that require precision platforming or otherwise hyper-cautious play, without adequately considering how the player will transition between the two, or how decisions made in the former will affect the latter. Falling into a bottomless pit because you didn't homing-chain correctly is one thing, but when it's because of a jump you made before there was any way to predict the pit, it's a problem. This does have the bizarre effect of making their games easier for shitty players who hit every obstacle and can't build speed, and harder for better players.

    That said, the footage that Master Emerald embedded does not have this problem nearly as bad as other areas in the game, but even so there's a few places where it's really obvious.
     
  20. Tiller

    Tiller

    Member
    836
    0
    16
    HDK & World Runner
    Once you've played the one of the 3DS 2D stages, you've played them all. There aren't nearly enough level set pieces or gimmicks to go around in a stage and they end up feeling even more barren than Gens 3DS. They rely heavily on just filling entire acts with parkour spindashing up walls into speed boosters and overuse that fucking gravity flipping mechanic. Then it just drones on and on where you're doing the same thing all the time without much variation. You have no sense of direction or progression since it just feels like you're going through the motions on the exact same chunk of level over and over. They just do nothing interesting with any of their levels. What they end up doing is just frustrating or annoying. Same can almost be said for the 3D portions, but they're still handled a bit better since you can do more things.

    I also agree that it's way too far zoomed in for the hazards it throws at you.