Sonic Jam commentaries tell all~

Well honestly, it makes more sense than not. I buy it.

Sonic 2 and Sonic CD were both being developed at the same time. The press probably just started assuming or spouting out of their ass that this Sonic game for the Sega CD was just a beefed up Sonic 2. And we know how that works; one news source reports something half baked, tons of other news sources follow suit, to remain "current". Spreads like wildfire. To add to it, we have absolutely nothing to indicate that there ever was a completely unique version of Sonic 2 being developed on the Sega CD.

And of course, we have concepts that were scrapped from Sonic 2 on the Genesis that got implemented into Sonic CD (time travel). I think it's safe to assume there never was a "Sonic 2 CD", and that there was only ever one Sonic game for the Sega CD that was ever worked on.

 

But it's equally safe to assume that the possibility is open that they could have not been misinformed.

My point is that you cannot determine for sure either way without getting some sort of testimony. Until then, all we can do is report (Sonic the Hedgehog 2 CD) based on the details that we're given. If those details are proven false, we remove that information. Until then, this is the documentation that we stick by, no matter how many logical assumptions you make. I'm not willing to take the chance of removing information if we don't know with 100% certainty (based on dev/magazine staff confirmation) that it is false.

 

The article calls the pictures intermissions. I don't for a minute think that the author of the article intended for them to be seen as "loading screens." I think they are trying to convey that they were cutscenes meant to further the story in some way, or just for the "WOW THIS GAME LOOKS LIKE A CARTOON" factor. I mean, if you were designing a supposedly enhanced CD version of a game, would you bring a bunch of loading screens to evidence how the CD version was the superior version? I doubt Sega would try to sell you on a more expensive version of a game by touting the fact that you got to sit through loading screens.

It seems far more likely that they were showing off animated intermissions, a sort of reward for finishing a level type deal that you couldn't get from the genesis.

The magazine calls this a demo - in a sense it could be a proof of concept type deal, an engine test, which is why the author explicitly stated that it may not end up in a hypothetical final version. That would explain why Sonic is flying around on a CD and angels are writing him messages - it could be just a bunch of random crap to show off the kind of real time animation the Sega CD is capable of and the devs intended to use between levels of Sonic 2 or CD or whatever the heck.

 

The most logical conclusion, based on the evidence, is that the press, early on, mistakenly assumed that Sonic 2 CD was meant to be an upgrade of Sonic 2, and not a separate game.

No magazine "source" both mention Sonic CD and Sonic 2 CD at the same time frame (odd, wouldn't you think?).

The naming progress seems to follow a pattern. Sonic 2 CD -> CD Sonic -> Sonic CD.

We have even more proof to the naming system. We have a prototype from May 10 which says CD Sonic. We have prototypes (and final versions) from July 12 up to September 10 saying Sonic CD. Look at the dates of these articles. One is marked 'Apr 1992'. Meaning it was written in about February, or March. WAY before any prototype was sent to ANYWHERE.

Now let's examine your supposed 'evidence':

http://info.sonicretro.org/Image:Sonic_2_CD.jpg

Nowhere in this article does it say that their claims are based on gameplay or official Sega statements. No. It's based on a rumor from a game show. Plus the usage of 'is said' instead of 'we know' etc. It's obvious that the mention is based on a rumor and that it's not substantiated by any evidence whatsoever.

Now, another fact (that has been proven by me time and time again) is that magazines were sent screenshots of games on slides by Sega. More often than not, the screenshots had nothing to do with the preview/review at hand. In this case, a much more plausible case is that:

They made a mistake and assumed Sonic 2 CD was a separate game or something. Then they got slides from Sega for a project called "Sonic CD". They assumed they were the same game -- an upgrade of Sonic 2. And since it's EGM, a respected magazine with many dev connections, everyone else assumed the rumor to be true.

My conclusion of the EGM article: the information contained in it is worthless and cannot be used to base any serious theory as to what was Sonic 2 CD.

But, you say you have another article scan?

http://info.sonicretro.org/Image:%28segapr...%29sonic2cd.jpg

This one is even a bigger joke. One sentence they're saying "Sonic 2 is coming to the Mega CD" and next sentence they are saying "The only question now is, will the game be a huge RPG type game or a total arcade freak-out".



Now, we've got the Sonic Retro wiki article about it:

What the hell? This is an absolutely non-substantiated out-of-the-ass theory, passes as a fact. Some of the "facts" here aren't even based by any of the crappy articles at all.


PS.

As for the 'intermission images' and what they are - they could be scrapped imagery from Sonic CD. We'll never know that until we get a much earlier Sonic CD prototype.

Don't you think it's weird that despite so much early Sonic 2 Megadrive/SMS/GG coverage, so many prototype screenshots of all three versions, so many prototypes around, so much TV coverage, there is no direct (or even believable) proof that Sonic 2 CD so much as existed? I mean, this is not proof of anything, but it does show something.


I don't know why we are even talking about this, but meh.


PS2. (Edit): Let's not forget where taking magazine "evidence" at face value takes us:

http://sost.emulationzone.org/sonic_knux/kighz/index.htm

 

Ah, so your argument is more speculation also. I almost thought I wrote a article for nothing. I'm sure the reason there wasn't screenshots of Sonic 2 CD is because none were released. And since it was only a enhanced port of sonic 2, gameplay images wouldn't be much different. I think they probably put off doing part 2 on sega cd because the sega cd team was tied up with sonic cd, they may have been the ones that were supposed to do the sega cd port. I think Sonic CD was supposed to be released way earlier than it was.

I'll also point out this article:
http://sost.emulationzone.org/sonic_2/scan...eview4of4GB.jpg
Despite the ports early announcment, and as far as sonic 2 development seems to be along, it says that the sega cd part hasnt been worked on much. Not only that, it released new information that the EGM article didn't and mentions that the game was going to have new levels. For that information they would have had to contact Sega, or someone. If they are going through that trouble that means Sega would have to think they meant sonic cd. Meaning they both had to be mistaken. Which isn't likely.

Edit: Everything in that sonic 2 cd wiki entry is based off a article.

 

This too?

Not even the 8 bit version was released simultaneously, and none of the interviewed staff remembered a CD version.

 

I don't know what you mean by your first retort. It's true the sonic 2 games werent released on the same day. I don't know if it's the norm for the team for the original game to work on a port.

 

...I was asking if that quote was also taken from somewhere, or somebody just made it up.

 

"Edit: Everything in that sonic 2 cd wiki entry is based off a article."

That was obviously my own words and not used in the wiki article.

 

...Let's try again, as there's some strange misunderstanding going on here.



In the first quote, you say that everything in the wiki article was taken from the magazines.

Then I ask "this too?", while quoting something from said wiki article. Meaning, was this quote from the wiki article also taken from a magazine, as claimed?

Then I say how that last quote has some wrong info in it.

 

I am not going to read all of this bullshit, but I am pretty sure this is turning in to a bigger dick fight, so how about we put it as it is. All arguments are pure speculation without a shred of proof, and thus, all theories could be put in to the wiki article to make you all feel like you accomplished something. "Sega wouldn't do this" or "Sonic wouldn't have angels" it's all fucking speculation. Get over yourselves.

 

If your talking about the alternate name, Super Sonic, that wasn't added by me. But it was based off info from this article: http://info.sonicretro.org/Image:Sonic2MDM...eview4of4GB.jpg

Hell, I think if there was a chance that name were used they would call the game Sonic the hedgehog 2 CD: Super sonic and not Super Sonic alone.

As for the megadrive and game gear being released simultaneously thing, I revised the wiki article to be closer to what the magazine said, and that Sonic 2 CD was originally going to be released simultaneously with the Mega Drive version.

 

Wow, dude, no need to be such a dick about it. Chill out.

 

Because asking nicely on the internet has always done a whole lot of good. It's just tiring to flip through this thread to find information on these commentaries and what secrets they may hold, along with speculation, only to find most pages to have bitching and flaming about something we currently do not have enough information about to even begin a war over.

 

I think Sonicandtails is proposing a topic split, and I approve of it. Sonic 2 cd thread and the original.

 

IceKnight, let's remember the staff interviewed for this community are all American devs. If the idea that "Sonic 2 CD" was really "Sonic CD" in the end is true, then it would have been developed exclusively in Japan. And come to think of it, with the supposed lack of communication between the Japanese Sonic Team and the STI Sonic Team, why would the Japanese team be working on a Sonic 2 game? I suppose what little information got through between the two would have caused the creation of the Sonic CD we all know. So who knows...

 

Don't know if anyone noticed this or not, but take a look at this.



What do you think?

 

<!--quoteo(post=197722:date=May 28 2008, 01:18 PM:name=Trunks)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Trunks @ May 28 2008, 01:18 PM)

What do you think?[/quote]

This is what IceKnight was pointing out earlier, but this is a well illustrated explanation. Nice. Maybe this should go in the wiki?

 

<!--quoteo(post=197722:date=May 28 2008, 12:18 PM:name=Trunks)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Trunks @ May 28 2008, 12:18 PM)

What do you think?[/quote]It was already pointed out before:<!--quoteo(post=197472:date=May 26 2008, 09:08 PM:name=ICEknight)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ICEknight @ May 26 2008, 09:08 PM) [/quote]

 

Sorry bro, didn't read the full thread (because most of it was drama and arguing over little things), but we noted it in the chat.

I just wanted to make sure it was fully illustrated, but no doubt, you were the first to "find" it. Good show.