Sonic Genesis Collection/Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection

The context in which that post and applies and this one applies is different, and you should know that. "SEGA's Ultimate Genesis Collection" has far different implications in the long run than Chip being a Flicky—one affects nothing about the character and the other completely the changes the light in which the game—and subsequently what to expect from it—should be seen.

"Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection" implies a Sonic-based game collection, first and foremost. You expect every Sonic game that was ever relevant to your interests on the platform. S2K and S3K are some of the most relevant—and arguably most fun—games related to Sonic on the plator; to imply focus on Sonic so strongly and to veer otherwise afterwards is nothing short of deceptive.

On the other hand,, if the game was called "SEGA's Ultimate Genesis Collection," then you know what to expect—a collection of Genesis games that may or may not include Sonic, being played off as one of the biggest Genesis-related collections that you could get for any system that isn't the Genesis itself. And for all I know or care, it probably is. But one thing I know not to expect is every single Genesis Sonic game that I could think of present on the collection. And that's completely fair.

You're basing the bulk of your argument based on the notion that there's no point of it being on another compilation; with that mindset, why make another compilation at all? It's inherently redundant. If you're going to market something as "ultimate," then the least you could do is actually live up to that name. It's not a Sonic compilation, and it shouldn't be labeled as such. I don't see how that's an unfair position to hold.

 

It was not labeled as such. You're making wild accusations about something that isn't true. Sonic is on the cover, and his name is in the title... he's Sega's MASCOT, of COURSE he's going to be on there. It's a little sketchy he's in the title, but you know what, I don't care. This is a SEGA collection, and you know that just by looking at the box or reading about it. Sonic stands out. People see him and go "hey, OMFG, that's Sonic the freakin' Hedgehog, he's from Sega", and then they see that it's a Sega Genesis collection. It's marketing. This isn't unusual.

And again, how did they lie? They didn't lie about anything, unless you have evidence to back it up. "Lie" is a strong word that is sometimes used inappropriately to describe someone's ignorance rather than actual deception.

This isn't a Sonic collection. If that's what you're after, buy Sonic Mega Collection or something else. I think it's silly for anyone to complain because one combination game wasn't included in the otherwise big collection of games.

So relax. Don't get so overly emotional and passionate about one game. It has Sonic 3... if that's not good enough, guess what?... don't buy it!! There's plenty of others out there who will buy it. There's nothing "disrespectful" about this collection unless you really believe they owe us something. They don't owe us a darn thing.

 

Not only is it sketchy, but it is the entire bulk of my argument as to why the name does matter in this particular case. It's one thing if Sonic is on the cover as the most prominent character—hell, many SEGA games do emphasize him in a similar way as their mascot—but it's another thing entirely to label it explicitly "Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection," compared to the far more sensible "SEGA's Ultimate Genesis Collection."

It's a SEGA Genesis compilation—you're absolutely right. So why the hell was Sonic's name explicitly in the title? That's far beyond any reasonable inclusion of Sonic to market the product; hell, it's downright deceptive. I look at the title and I think "Oh, this must be a Sonic compilation." Whether you try and rationalize it otherwise, a majority of people will also gather the same thing solely from the title.

It's like the difference between "Sonic 2" and "Sonic goes to the Grocery Store to Eat Dicks." They're both the same game, but does the other title really represent the game proper?

They lied about why Sonic 3 & Knuckles and Sonic 2 & Knuckles were not included on the compilation. It was a bold-faced lie with absolutely no basis considering all factors involved, and it's extremely likely that they made it up on the spot after being questioned as to why one of the most obvious Sonic games weren't included on the collection.

...if a game compilation is supposed to be dedicated to some of the most hardcore SEGA fans and otherwise video game enthusiasts, then they'd bloody well know about the lock-on present in the classic games. Sonic 3 & Knuckles, if nothing else, was heavily marketed after the release of Sonic & Knuckles as the "true" Sonic 3. I can't think of any group of gamers who have ever actually played a Sonic game that don't know about lock-on or Sonic 3 & Knuckles.

Then it shouldn't be named as such.

I don't recall not being relaxed, nor do I recall putting a great deal of GRR RAGE EMOTION into this decision on their part. However, I do call things how I see them, and I see this whole situation as a big festering pile of money-grabbing bullshit. The difference between when they did it this time and when they do it every other time is the sheer lack of effort or thought into the decision. At least SEGA Genesis Collection for PSP and whatever else was properly labeled.

Also, if you read my earlier posts, you'd know that I don't plan on buying it; hell, I don't even have an Xbox 360. I wasn't aware that this was a factor that determined whether or not I was able to express my thoughts, though. As for whether or not they "owe us anything"... I don't remember that ever being part of the equation, or even the slightest focus of my complaints. As far as I'm concerned, they do us well enough by not actively condemning emulation. This is still pretty retarded, though.

 

You have fair points. But not this one:

I hate to keep beating a dead horse, but what proof do you have? The fact that Sonic 3 is 33MB should say something about the software they're using. For whatever reason, each game takes a big bulk of memory. So do you know for CERTAIN that they can simply combine the two ROMs without any complications? You don't know that. They named time constraints and space being two factors. Why do you automatically call them liars and disrespectful when you don't have any proof one way or the other?

 

Wasn't the 33MB screenshot from SEGA Vintage Collection? As far as I know, they're not even related.

That said, if they did store the games in the same way, then yes, the two ROMs could be stored together without any complications. The method they use to store their games consists of both a standalone emulator program packed with a raw Genesis ROM. Any game can be transplanted into the collection by simply replacing this ROM; and, in fact, the best custom Genesis emulator for PSP was produced by reverse-engineering the emulator in SEGA Genesis Collection.

The increased filesize is a result of the fact that the games have no sound emulation—they use external, PCM-based music and sound effects in order to play. You could claim this as a fair reason for why the game was not included... until you consider that Sonic 3 & Knuckles had the exact same music and sound effects as Sonic 3, bar a couple of tracks that can be easily replaced, making them a trivial change. Sonic & Knuckles would be included similarly using the same music without too much trouble.

You know what I think? I think they weren't able to reverse-engineer Sonic 3 & Knuckles enough to recognize the music calls. Thumbing through the Wiki, we have RAM locations for Sonic 1 and Sonic 2 that document where the value that handles music and sound effect calls are handled. The calls in Sonic 3 are, if I recall, the same as Sonic 2; however, in Sonic & Knuckles, a majority of the RAM locations are shifted by about $15 bytes or so. I'm not going to outright insult their developers, but it's a very open possibility that they simply couldn't reverse-engineer the game enough to make music calls valid for them. I would actually buy this as a valid excuse when it comes to the development time thing, but it would make a lot more sense to outright state that than make a cover-up for it after lying outright about it at first.

Because the first PR representative to speak up on why the compilation did not include the games cited "space issues" as one of the reasons, which can not possibly be valid any way you stretch it. Forgive me if I take this as some sort of sign that the people responsible for this game are full of shit. I certainly wouldn't be that off-course—after all, they provided the incentive, not me.

 

I feel that they should have given it a name like "Sega Genesis Collection - Starring Sonic" or something to that effect. It doesn't imply that the collection is based mainly around Sonic, but will still grab the attention of the public with Sonic's name. "Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection" has people thinking that it has mainly Sonic games. The word "Ultimate" implies that it is complete, with every game you could possibly want. It was the naming of the collection that caused all this fuss in the first place.

I may get this, I may not. I probably will wait to get all the Sonic games on XBLA, as I like collecting the achievements (One achievement per game isn't enough in my opinion). When Sega finally release a collection that includes the Saturn Sonic 3D (Or PC, but the Special Stages aren't as good), Knuckles Chaotix and SegaSonic Arcade that will get my attention for sure. Even a collection with difficulty selection and time attack in the originals like Sonic Jam would be cool.

 

Except because of the fact that to support the new system they would need to edit the ROMs. The only easy way to do it through source code would be editing Sonic 3C, which I highly doubt they've ever heard about. Then again, like I said the sound driver runs entirely on the Z80 side, which also does only that. It wouldn't have been hard to override Z80 emulation and just intercept the writes to play the sounds.

But let's be honest, the whole truth is that they wasted time. They could have forgotten about Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles and just do Sonic 3 & Knuckles directly.

If they say that they had to reverse engineer the ROMs when in theory Sega should still have the source code, nobody is gonna believe them. Though I wouldn't be surprised if Sega just gave them the ROMs and completely refused to give out the source code =/

 

...why would they have to edit the ROMs? The whole reason behind having a specific emulator per-game is because the emulator handles intercepting the music calls, not the ROM itself. Check if music ID is moved to RAM address; if so, play music file xx in external music player. Pretty simple stuff.

Hell, if I recall, that's how Qjimbo's Sonic 2 MP3 tool worked! It's not a difficult concept to grasp.

Well, I don't know about the availability most outsourced dev teams have to SEGA source code, but I know that Sonic 1 Revision 3 on Sonic Mega Collection with the "Spike Bug fix" is a ROM hack—it only changes a few bytes to fix the issue, and wasn't recompiled at all past the Japanese release of the game. It's not far-fetched to believe that SEGA has got used to reverse-engineering its own products.

 

<!--quoteo(post=279682:date=Feb 15 2009, 10:43 AM:name=saxman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (saxman @ Feb 15 2009, 10:43 AM)

Yet Europe has the far more sensible approach. It's called Sega Mega Drive Ultimate Collection. It implies what it is. A Mega Drive Collection. Where's Sonic? Not there, because he has no need to be, at least not unless any other series mascots are there. Yet it does mention Sonic on the cover, as well as the other prominent series. Europe did it right. Now, I know that Sega is more popular over in Europe, so the Sonic title's not needed as much, but it seems to imply the wrong message that Sonic's name has to be on the cover.

 

Funnily enough, that's just what I was thinking. We Europeans have always been the Sega hardcore (I don't think I'm alone in this perception) hence there is no need to stick Sonic on it over here. We are also less, shall we say, in your face. It should sell here because of what it is, which is a relatively cheap compilation of a lot of games which, let's face it, even without S&K lockons is remarkably good value for the convenience. You'd pay its retail price for either Shining Force game in decent condition, or for SoR3 on a good day, and despite the fact that many of the games have better ports available and that the whole thing is lazily put together, it's still a lot of good games. They don't get worse for being old you know. Counting out the games with better conversions, by my reckoning this release just became the best way to play quite a few of the ones it contains.

TLDR - good, but not for Sonic. Mindless marketing.

 

My thoughts exactly. It's been ages since (For shortage-of-money reasons) I had to sell a bunch of games including Streets of Rage 3, Story of Thor ("Beyond Oasis" on that cover image, do we not get the EU one? :/) and Shining Force II... it'll be very nice to get them again in a legitimate format.

And I tire of this disrespectful bullshit regarding one fucking overrated game we all already have about five times, even though the excuses for it's absence are bunk -- I would much rather support Sega for this than shit like Golden Axe: Beast Rider personally. Let Sega know that more money will go to their older games, and maybe they'll get the message somehow; or so the theory goes.

 

<!--quoteo(post=279809:date=Feb 15 2009, 10:18 PM:name=Dark Sonic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dark Sonic @ Feb 15 2009, 10:18 PM) [/quote]
Is it me or there are repeated pics of several games? o_o; (by repeated I mean more than one pic of the same game, not the exact same pic)

 

Actually I see completely duplicate pics.

 

Wow, now that you mention it so do I. Maybe the other 20+ games are going to be unlockable, or they got lazy and uncreative putting screens in. :P

 

Ecco, Super Thunder Blade, Ristar, Sonic & Knuckles, Streets of Rage 2, Vectorman
Sonic 3, Altered Beast, Sonic 2, Shinobi III, Sonic 1, Fatal Labyrinth
Sonic Spinball, Phantasy Star IV, Sonic 3, Alex Kidd in the Enchanted Castle, Streets of Rage 2, Golden Axe
Vectorman (duplicate), Mean Bean Machine, Golden Axe, Columns, Sonic & Knuckles, Ecco
Story of Thor, Alien Storm, Ecco (duplicate), Comix Zone, Vectorman 2, Phantasy Star IV
Golden Axe (duplicate), Ristar, Sonic 3D, Bonanza Bros, Streets of Rage 3, Kid Chameleon

 

You forgotten a "(duplicate)", JDAdams =P (Sonic & Knuckles is twice)

 

Ah, but different photos!

 

So, is anyone going to rip the interviews?

 

Doubt they are worth the time since we heard nothing from them, stock interviews with questions from sega to sega, yeah...