Sonic Generations technical oddities & flaws (Unpaid betatesting)

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by ICEknight, Jun 23, 2011.

  1. Azookara

    Azookara

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    I do believe automation and scripted events is kind of silly to have, but I don't see any problem with the "dynamic camera angle" bit. Especially whenever movement is already limited mostly to a 2-dimensional plane. Why can't we have full-control movement and dynamic camera angles simultaneously? Now <I>that's</I> something I don't fully understand.
     
  2. Solaris Paradox

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    Cinematic camera sweeps and so forth do their part, but everything in moderation, you know?

    The actual scripted events aren't even that, they're just scripted gameplay elements like ramps that are intended to launch you just-so to make the layout work.
     
  3. OSM

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    <!--quoteo(post=599087:date=Jun 24 2011, 07:54 PM:name=Solaris Paradox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Solaris Paradox @ Jun 24 2011, 07:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=599087"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The actual scripted events aren't even that, they're just scripted gameplay elements like ramps that are intended to launch you just-so to make the layout work.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    And this is the problem. If they have to rely on scripted events to make a level function for them, then there is clearly something amiss with their development philosophy.
     
  4. Covarr

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    <!--quoteo(post=599087:date=Jun 24 2011, 04:54 PM:name=Solaris Paradox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Solaris Paradox @ Jun 24 2011, 04:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=599087"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The actual scripted events aren't even that, they're just scripted gameplay elements like ramps that are intended to launch you just-so to make the layout work.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Fun fact: even other games with scripted gameplay elements often give more control than this. In Portal 2, for example, aerial faith plates will automatically launch the player to land on a designated target, but holding left or right CAN effect your actual landing location; depending on how the level is designed a player could theoretically reach a platform, hit a wall, or fall into a pit that the plate wasn't necessarily aimed at. These are SCRIPTED GAME EVENTS that give more control than things in a game which should be completely without such things.

    At the very least, if something must be scripted, it should be natural enough that the player either does not notice or does not care. There is a spring and a ramp in the Generations demo that sends you straight up and then pushes you to the right to land on a platform. This is bad enough if the player wants to land on the next spring just to the left (which <I>would</I> be possible if it were unscripted), but it's made worse by the fact that once you land on this platform, it starts moving and will not stay still again. If you fall off and need to get back up there, it's gonna take a few tries, because the spring sends you to the same place every time and if you don't time it perfectly against a platform that THE PLAYER CANNOT SEE FROM THE SPRING, it'll miss. All this when there's another spring that the player will think he can land on, and in fact will intuitively try to land on if the platform is off-screen at the time.

    No screenshot, but everyone who has played this segment knows what I mean. It's extraordinarily aggravating, and a perfect example of why scripted events are a bad thing.
     
  5. synchronizer

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    The s-tubes can be quite glitchy at times. Once one of them sent me backwards, and on another occasion I was able to enter one without initiating the scripted rolling. As in, I was able to run on the inside.
     
  6. Blue Blood

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    Okay, for the love of God what has happened? I can't hit buzz bombers, and I can't hit Choppers until they're very close to the ground (ergo, further forward than when you usually hit them). At first I thought this was because I'd moved Sonic forward slightly by messing around with the S-tunnels, but have since restarted the stage. Hopefully I can record a video. Either way, it's very odd.

    <!--quoteo(post=599090:date=Jun 25 2011, 01:07 AM:name=synchronizer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (synchronizer @ Jun 25 2011, 01:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=599090"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The s-tubes can be quite glitchy at times. Once one of them sent me backwards, and on another occasion I was able to enter one without initiating the scripted rolling. As in, I was able to run on the inside.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Hit X/Square button right before you enter the tunnel. Sonic won't start charging the spindash until you're already inside. Without letting go, hit jump to cancel the charge and presto! You can run in the tunnel.
     
  7. SmashX5000

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    I'm working on a cartoon based on the Genesis games called Sonic Boom.
    Well, that was weird. Sonic was running at top speed. He went through a tube, then at the end of the tube, he just shot right back up it and ran backwards. Not sure what caused him to just completely reverse like that, since I had been holding forward, but it certainly was odd.
     
  8. Chimpo

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    I have compiled my thoughts in this in depth video analyzing the flaws in the rolling system found in Sonic Generations.

    <!--id1--><object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/R16IBC_kD5o&"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/R16IBC_kD5o&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object><!--id2-->
     
  9. synchronizer

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    <!--quoteo(post=599092:date=Jun 24 2011, 08:12 PM:name=SmashX5000)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SmashX5000 @ Jun 24 2011, 08:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=599092"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well, that was weird. Sonic was running at top speed. He went through a tube, then at the end of the tube, he just shot right back up it and ran backwards. Not sure what caused him to just completely reverse like that, since I had been holding forward, but it certainly was odd.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yes that's a better description of what I experienced. So glitchy...
     
  10. Ravi Singh

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    So after downloading it and playing it, I have to wonder if this is based on a build earlier than the demo shown at Sonic Boom and E3. I'm noticing a lot more bugs and issues. Sure I had a drink or two at Sonic Boom but not only does alcohol generally make me more alert (and thus, more of a critic) but my friends who were sober feel the same way after downloading it, and I was sober at E3 as well. Not saying the Sonic Boom/E3 demo was perfect, but for example I did not notice uncurling after hitting enemies and strange friction issues with certain slopes.

    Still able to replicate Sonic standing on spikes and spindashing against the 2D axis.
     
  11. OSM

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    <!--quoteo(post=599094:date=Jun 24 2011, 08:18 PM:name=Chimpo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chimpo @ Jun 24 2011, 08:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=599094"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have compiled my thoughts in this in depth video analyzing the flaws in the rolling system found in Sonic Generations.

    <!--id1--><object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/R16IBC_kD5o&"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/R16IBC_kD5o&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object><!--id2--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Magnificent.
     
  12. GeneHF

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    It does feel a little different. I actually had problems when playing this demo. Meanwhile, at Sonic Boom, as recorded, I simply picked up an open controller, told my friend to start recording and did my first playthroughs for each act and things clicked.

    Otherwise, I'm pretty sure this may be an older build. Hard to say since we don't know the compile date of the Sonic Boom one. On the surface you'd think they'd be the same, but it could be as something as small at a week or two later.
     
  13. SmashX5000

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    I'm working on a cartoon based on the Genesis games called Sonic Boom.
    This one isn't a problem, just something I noticed I found odd.

    While trying to turn around before a corkscrew, I ended up trying to turn too late and was in the corkscrew. Turns out that's a bit more automated than I thought. Holding the opposite direction of where I was going made Sonic continue to run, instead of slowing or stopping.

    Not something I think needs fixed (There's really no reason to turn around in the middle of a corkscrew), but I still found that a bit odd, especially since they automated that so you can't die, but they don't keep you from jumping in one (which is automatic death).
     
  14. Solaris Paradox

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    I'm working on working up the willpower to work on learning how to make my own Sonic fangames. Not quite there yet.
    <!--quoteo(post=599109:date=Jun 24 2011, 08:51 PM:name=SmashX5000)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SmashX5000 @ Jun 24 2011, 08:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=599109"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This one isn't a problem, just something I noticed I found odd.

    While trying to turn around before a corkscrew, I ended up trying to turn too late and was in the corkscrew. Turns out that's a bit more automated than I thought. Holding the opposite direction of where I was going made Sonic continue to run, instead of slowing or stopping.

    Not something I think needs fixed (There's really no reason to turn around in the middle of a corkscrew), but I still found that a bit odd, especially since they automated that so you can't die, but they don't keep you from jumping in one (which is automatic death).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    It's not automatic death "if you jump in a corkscrew." It's automatic death if you jump in a corkscrew that's above a bottomless pit. There are two corkscrews in the level; only the longer one at the end is above a bottomless pit. The other's above a lower route. I'm referring to the corkscrew that leads directly into an S-tube.

    Although that does explain why Sonic was inexplicably unable to stop himself from running backwards when the S-tube spat me back out. =/
     
  15. SmashX5000

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    I'm working on a cartoon based on the Genesis games called Sonic Boom.
    <!--quoteo(post=599117:date=Jun 24 2011, 06:07 PM:name=Solaris Paradox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Solaris Paradox @ Jun 24 2011, 06:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=599117"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=599109:date=Jun 24 2011, 08:51 PM:name=SmashX5000)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SmashX5000 @ Jun 24 2011, 08:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=599109"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This one isn't a problem, just something I noticed I found odd.

    While trying to turn around before a corkscrew, I ended up trying to turn too late and was in the corkscrew. Turns out that's a bit more automated than I thought. Holding the opposite direction of where I was going made Sonic continue to run, instead of slowing or stopping.

    Not something I think needs fixed (There's really no reason to turn around in the middle of a corkscrew), but I still found that a bit odd, especially since they automated that so you can't die, but they don't keep you from jumping in one (which is automatic death).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    It's not automatic death "if you jump in a corkscrew." It's automatic death if you jump in a corkscrew that's above a bottomless pit. There are two corkscrews in the level; only the longer one at the end is above a bottomless pit. The other's above a lower route. I'm referring to the corkscrew that leads directly into an S-tube.

    Although that does explain why Sonic was inexplicably unable to stop himself from running backwards when the S-tube spat me back out. =/
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Ah, I could have sworn I died in the first corkscrew once, but I went back and tried a few times, and you're right.
     
  16. BetaTwizzler

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    Geez, it seems like some of you guys purposely played the hell out of the demo so you had something to complain about, lol. The only thing I find annoying has probably been stated numerous times, and that's when Classic Sonic jumps he "feels" heavy. The Spindash could maybe be toned down a bit too, but if not I feel it's no big deal.

    Edit: I just remembered one more thing I have an issue with, uncurling. I can't say for sure when, but I know I've uncurled when coming off a ramp! Gah, why isn't this fixed yet?
     
  17. Aerosol

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    I dunno. While fairly lol-tastic, Chimpo's demonstration of the lack of proper rolling physics worries me a little bit. I like rolling :<

    I'll download this on my friends 360 sometime. Or, I'll just wait till the 30th and download it on my own. Not in any rush to play a demo (and an old one at that, I think?).
     
  18. Tyty

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    It's not like every 2D game since the dreamcast titles have had bad physics though. There have been good physics in a "modern" Sonic game. >_>

    Honestly, they just need to fix the rolling, and the spring control and they'll have it going good. Maybe make Sonic feel less heavy too. I don't particularily care for enemy rebounding myself, but... The rolling is really the biggest issue.
     
  19. Sik

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    I think the issue of rolling physics indeed lies within Havok, so I don't know if Sega can really fix it. Maybe Sonic still has too much friction when rolling - if that's the case then reducing the friction even more will probably be enough.
     
  20. DustArma

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    <!--quoteo(post=599155:date=Jun 25 2011, 12:12 AM:name=Sik)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sik @ Jun 25 2011, 12:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=599155"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think the issue of rolling physics indeed lies within Havok, so I don't know if Sega can really fix it. Maybe Sonic still has too much friction when rolling - if that's the case then reducing the friction even more will probably be enough.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I don't think Havok handles the gameplay physics, just the object physics and general physics eye-candy.