don't click here

Sonic Generations technical oddities & flaws (Unpaid betatesting)

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by ICEknight, Jun 23, 2011.

  1. ICEknight


    Researcher Researcher
    I just thought it would be a good idea to make a topic where the guys at SEGA who usually lurk in here can take a quick look at the (few?) complaints people are making after having tried the demo. This way, there will be a place to focus on the stuff that feels off or unbalanced as well as their possible fixes. Also, this way the megathread can be spared the continuous mentions of the same flaws over and over again.

    From what I've read, there's some problems with rolling physics, spindash strength and the jump angle in certain slopes. Feel free to post as many examples with extensive details as you can, so SEGA can be kept well informed about them and hopefully polish this engine a little more before the game gets released.

    For starters, I'll quote some stuff that has been noted at the megathread:
  2. Lanzer


    The saber calls for its master... Member
    Glendale, AZ
    Living life.
    Found this in the generations topic:

    So far I've found nothing but I'll post as soon as I do. was this glitch found in the demo as well?
  3. JcFerggy


    Do you want to taco 'bout it? Member
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    GoldenEye: Source, Other Stuff
    I personally hate how much scripted sequences there are, and how/when they are used. I want to control Sonic. If I want to break sequence, I should be allowed to.

    The second thing I hate is how rolling and spindash is handled. I'm just going to quote a pervious post by me, since all of my previous thoughts stand through after playing it.

    I still had fun with it, but stuff like rolling and spindash bug me.
  4. BlazeHedgehog


    A "Community Enigma"? Oldbie
    I really like the demo, but...

    • I don't like how Sonic cannot accelerate while in mid-air (whatever his speed is when he jumps is the fastest he's allowed to travel in mid-air)
    • I don't like how freakishly overpowered the spindash is (charge time is too short, the speed gained from a full charge is too fast)
    • I don't like how S-curve tubes automatically set Sonic's speed to max the moment he enters one (they are meant to function as ways to build momentum naturally, not as scripted boosters)
    • One particular scripted scene bothers me: Sonic gets launched up in to the air, with a yellow spring on his left and a swinging platform on his right. It's scripted so that you always land on the platform, even though you have enough height to move over to the spring. Pushing left on the stick does nothing, but I should be able to hit that spring from the air without touching the swinging platform.
    • Rolling has more meaning here than it does in Sonic 4, but it still doesn't function "correctly". Rolling emphasizes slope momentum no matter when it's activated. It should do the same here, but doesn't.
    • Similarly, unless running at full tilt, there are some (not terribly steep!) slopes that Sonic seems to have trouble walking up.
  5. Ell678


    Am I Annoying You? Member
    Barrow, England
    Sonic Incursion
    I have had a similar bug, I spindashed at the preceding loop, he stood on the opposite side to the one in the picture for about half a second then dropped down. Other than that, no bugs, only what others have mentioned before about the rolling and spindash. Jumping feels a tiny bit off, but still good.

    Good job Sonic Team!
  6. Andrew75


    Technical Artist Member
    Project AXSX(Sonic Xtreme) + Misc Projects
    My biggest complaint is the lack of true sonic physics rules.
    Small slopes in Generations don't even have physics.

    Edit: the spring in the first tree shoots sonic directly up, there is no directional control going up.
    Its as if sonic is being propelled up an invisible tube.
    There is also a lack of Momentum passed on from Sonics run direction when using the springs as well.

    Edit 2: Sonic doesn't seem to roll very far when attempting to roll down slopes.
    In the classics Sonic gained quite a bit of momentum allowing Him to roll around much of the levels using the slopes.
    I don't see that working out so well in Generations.
    Its especially apparent on mid sized slopes facing each-other, sonic should be able to roll between them forever, gaining momentum each traversal.
    instead he rolls down and stops at its foot in a ducking position.

    Here is a video that I made some time back to help reference for the 2 fan game projects I'm working on.
    Its a real shame Sega doesn't seem to do deep deep research into there own games when recreating the engine.
    Quite a few Fan game engines ( some 3D) already pull off many of the rules listed in the below video.

  7. Covarr


    Sentient Cash Register Member
    Trapped in my own thoughts.
    Two stageplays, a screenplay, and an album
    Having finally finished downloading this (PS3 version), and played through it a couple of times, I have a few thoughts:

    1. THE FRAMERATE NEEDS SOME SERIOUS WORK. If Sonic is going to be running this fast and there's going to be so much detail in both the background and foreground, anything less than 60fps will make the game difficult to play. I didn't do anything as serious as capturing and counting frames to get an exact number, but it felt like it occasionally ran as slow as about 20fps by my estimate.

    2. There are parts where the camera is too zoomed in to allow for a decent reaction time unless you're deliberately playing slowly. Since there don't seem to be any bottomless pits, this isn't a HUGE deal, but it's annoying that alternate paths are often inaccessible unless you know about them in advance.

    3. Gravity is too heavy. Sonic's jump height is okay, but it seems like there's too much force to achieve this jump. He should be rising and falling more slowly, with a smoother transition between the two states.

    4. On foot, Sonic accelerates too quickly on flat land, and not at all on even gentle inclines. I suspect the problem is, at least in part, related to friction, but I don't have enough of a physics background to know how it needs changed.

    5. The camera sticks too tightly to Sonic. It needs some give, otherwise it's really disorienting when Sonic turns around suddenly. I think this is also contributing to the heavy feeling jump.

    All in all, I'm not too disappointed, since even in early beta form this game appears to be generally better than the finished product we got in Sonic 4 final.
  8. My original post is quoted above, which says all I really have to say with regards to what I found, but I did experience some quirkiness regarding speed at points, plus various other odd glitches here and there.

    As has been said though, it's still pretty fun and overall quite good. A bit more spit-and-polish and it'll be great. Things I'd personally like to see fixed:

    - Spindash revving. This can probably be worked with the single-button spindash too, just hold the button longer for more revs.
    - Keeping momentum after forward jumps, even after the d-pad has been released.
    - The music loop. Hearing it loop right from the beginning is quite jarring.
    - At least a little variation in bounce height.
    - Probably REALLY nitpicky, but I'd like to see the "getting up after being hurt" animation gone. I feel it kinda breaks the flow of gameplay a bit.
  9. JcFerggy


    Do you want to taco 'bout it? Member
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    GoldenEye: Source, Other Stuff
    I keep playing the level, and I am getting more and more frustrated at how I am not in control of Sonic 100% of the time. I go off a spring? I have to wait till he's at the peak. I hit sideways spring, I can't jump for the next so many seconds. And the input lag is quite noticeable for me. Going off slopes sometimes messes with your speed too. Compare going off the slope that you hit the monitor in the tree, to the one right after the S bends. You almost seem to clip something, and your speed is dropped drastically.

    Then there are just visual stuff I would like to be changed. It looks like the original blue Buzz Bomber is one that does not fire, then why not use him on that bouncing section after the halfpipe up the springs? It would be nice to see him more in the level. The level also lacks a serious amount of monitors. In the first level, it should set up the player to everything they should expect to see more or less in terms of tools, so it would be nice to see a regular shield and a invincibility.
  10. Miles3298


    At the end corkscrew, you can "stand" on it in a running animation. In some small spots there, you can even do a tiny bit of 3D movement - pushing forward will up you just a tiny bit, down will take you a bit towards the screen, etc.

    At any ledge when you're messing around with the ledge animations, turning around quickly and then looking up or down will make Sonic do his animation facing either towards the screen or away from it.

    Looking up or down... doesn't actually make you look up or down.
  11. Shadic


    Olympia, WA
    Home improvement eternal
    The last two loops before the final corkscrew can be glitchy. I managed to get enough momentum to jump to the peak of the first loop, even casting a shadow on the top of the loop, and fell right through it. Now I'm stuck with the camera thinking I'm somewhere behind the stage., so you can't see Sonic. Managed to get it fixed by falling off that platform and jumping to another.
  12. Nix


    "Watch out! It's that one guy!" Member
    Oh shit, I didn't realise I posted that in this thread. Sorry about that, won't happen again... :(
  13. ICEknight


    Researcher Researcher
    I don't get it. What's wrong in that picture?
  14. Jen


    #lapidot Moderator
    Various drawings
    Overall, I absolutely loved the demo. It looks beautiful, and I really liked all the small details like the Crabmeat laughing if you run into it. Sonic's animations and his attitude are spot-on, it's a joy to see him in his classic form again after all these years :D

    The physics overall aren't too bad; they're certainly much better than Sonic 4. The odd things I've noticed so far are as follows:

    - The rolling feels a bit funny. Sonic doesn't build up momentum quickly enough when rolling, and I've found he uncurls and starts running quite frequently when you try to roll on loops etc (unless I'm doing something horribly wrong; I'm rolling Mega Drive style, I.e. briefly let go of the d-pad and hitting down).

    - The spindash is far too powerful. There's no real need for THAT much of a boost in speed, especially when you consider that you barely have to rev it up to achieve ridiculous speeds. Also, I don't see the point of having the spindash mapped to the X button as well as the traditional "down and jump" method. Stopping, holding down and hitting the jump button was always the way to do it in 2D Sonics, why is that no so here? It's crazy that Sonic doesn't even have to stop moving in order to use the spindash now, that's very exploitable (not as exploitable as Sonic Adventure though, thank god).

    - The jump feels heavy. It shouldn't be really floaty, but Sonic shouldn't feel like he weighs a ton either. There needs to be a middle ground. I'm not sure if I'm imagining things, but Sonic's jump height seems to be a little lower than it should be - when I play this game, I always feel like Sonic should be able to reach higher areas which in actual fact he can't physically jump to.

    - It would be awesome if the bounce height was brought into line with the Mega Drive games. That is to say, if you jump on something from above and keep the jump button held down, Sonic should bounce back up to the height from which he jumped. A little detail, but it feels really strange to a life-long Sonic fan such as myself.

    I'll have another go on this demo at some point over the next few days when I'm feeling less tired and see if I can spot anything else.
  15. OSM


    retro is for losers! Member
    Doing absolutely nothing
    Nothing, he was just showing off his speed run record. Why he posted it in this thread I don't know.
  16. Runner


    Long time no see, old friend. Member
    I made a video showing some use for the variable bounce height:

    I really miss the variable bounce jump in Sonic Generations :(
  17. ICEknight


    Researcher Researcher
    Another example...

    I think there was another one from Sonic CD, with even more bounce chains.
  18. OSM


    retro is for losers! Member
    Doing absolutely nothing
    Colors had variable bouncing if I remember correctly. I did it multiple times playing through that game.
  19. DustArma


    Santiago, Chile
    Learning Python.
    I never got the variable bouncing, it was always a huge bounce regardless of the angle and jump height, and you had to keep the jump button held otherwise Sonic would uncurl and get hit.
  20. Nix


    "Watch out! It's that one guy!" Member
    Well I dun goofed sorry about that. Never realised I posted that in this thread; I thought as was posting in the other thread because I didn't know this one existed. Sorry...

    Anyways... on to oddities.

    -That one wooden path that does a loop and swirls around the mountain/hill thing is just so damn wacky. I honestly can't rely on that thing to work properly half of the time. One time I fell through it, another time Sonic somehow fell off of it. It's just crazy.

    -I don't know what causes this, but sometimes when you take the upper path in the beginning of the level (after bouncing off the purple bee thing above the S-shaped tube) and do a spindash, Sonic will sometimes do a short hop and halt at the loop. I may be pressing a button or something, but I really don't think I am, and it's really getting irritating when it happens.

    -I've gotten above mentioned S-tube to not work. Sonic doesn't curl up into a ball or anything, don't know how I got that to happen though.

    -The spindash... I think it's been said that it's overpowered. It is, and although I love it now, it needs to be fixed.

    That's all I can think of off the top of my head.