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Sonic Generations Megathread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Scarred Sun, Apr 8, 2011.

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  1. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    I just say get rid of rails permanently. They add nothing to the game and if they're so concerned about having to fill space just make a pathway or something seriously. Besides rail grinding has just turned into like quick step sections over the sky since unleashed came about. They're useless
     
  2. snow toilet

    snow toilet

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    Sonic Grand Prix??
    <!--quoteo(post=578554:date=Apr 15 2011, 04:26 PM:name=serpx)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (serpx @ Apr 15 2011, 04:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=578554">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=578523:date=Apr 15 2011, 11:28 AM:name=snow toilet)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snow toilet @ Apr 15 2011, 11:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=578523">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, old school Sonic grind railing is going to make me a happy camper. I would like to see that in this game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Please, god no SEGA. Classic Sonic never did grind railing in the classics, and believe he shouldn't start in this Generations game. I personally can't stand grind railing, and I think it's a very lame gimmick that needs to go away, ESPECIALLY the times where the grind railing is over a fat pitfall. Those are the worst.

    The rails in the Advance games just felt like a forced and unnecessary add-on. SOAP is over.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This was an excellent gimmick and probably one of the best included in the series. It adds more to the speedy experience to be honest. At first, I thought that it just wasn't needed in Sonic Adventure 2 with the Final Rush being "xtremely" difficult as well as having difficulties in the Sky Rail but as I practiced more and more on those levels where these rails played a big part in I soon realized how fun they actually are and how much more of a great experience it gives to game play.
    That's just my opinion though.
     
  3. Slingerland

    Slingerland

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    To pad out my "fuck grinding" sentiment, here's an excerpt from my <a href="http://www.sonicretro.org/2010/12/review-sonic-colors-wii/" target="_blank">Sonic Colors review:</a>
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Can I also ask why grinding still exists? The game already plays itself on foot sometimes. Do we really need these “on-rails” segments to literally be “on rails?” Grinding hasn't been relevant since Sonic Adventure 2 and yet it keeps coming back.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yes, please. Get rid of it. It adds nothing.
     
  4. Rokkan

    Rokkan

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    Grinding was okay in Sonic Adventure 2. Grinding was influenced with your speed, you had skill while using it (tilting left and right at the right times) and they were some times sort of hidden. Like in Green Forest and Metal Harbor's "edges" that could be grinded on. "Oh, this can be grinded?". So it was somewhat cool, I'd not mind grinding in modern Sonic if it worked like that - as hidden shortcuts and that actually requires some skill to balance and have speed on it and everything. One example of how well they were used there was in Final Rush - that stair-grind thing. That was a pretty cool stage gimmick.

    On all games after Sonic Adventure 2, though, they became useless. Specially in Unleashed/Colors that you didn't have to worry about balance or starting momentum or anything, they were either retarded quick-step sections, or just useless sections to make the levels slightly longer and Sonic look cooler :I
     
  5. Guess Who

    Guess Who

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    <!--quoteo(post=578587:date=Apr 15 2011, 04:42 PM:name=Rave)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rave @ Apr 15 2011, 04:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=578587">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you had skill while using it (tilting left and right at the right times)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Hold down X. Never worry about balancing.

    Seriously, I never bother balancing and I don't think I've ever had a problem.
     
  6. Spanner

    Spanner

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    A lot of stuff have been added in games and they have remained ever since. Stuff such as the homing attack, dash pads, power-up balloons/rings and of course, rails, have been around since their 3D introduction. Whilst some things could be removed, some things have become locked into the Sonic experience and if they work well, there is no point removing them.
     
  7. Azookara

    Azookara

    yup Member
    I thought that in SA2 grinding was a fun momentum-based physics toy that fit with the rest of the also-momentum-based traditional Sonic stuff, and it was neat how it was hidden within certain parts of the stages, like the sides of half pipes and stuff.

    I could easily go with the current grinding stuff disappearing though. Can't say tapping shoulder buttons on an automated path is that fun.
     
  8. Malpass

    Malpass

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    An example of when it doesn't work and is just annoying is <strike>Sky Rail</strike> Rail Canyon, from Heroes. What an awful zone that was.
     
  9. TheKazeblade

    TheKazeblade

    "Our Life is More than a Side-Effect" Member
    I'm the exact opposite. I think that there are smart ways to use boost, and I'd like to see Sega continue to work on implementing it in better ways than they have previously.
     
  10. <!--quoteo(post=578619:date=Apr 15 2011, 07:22 PM:name=TheKazeblade)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheKazeblade @ Apr 15 2011, 07:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=578619">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm the exact opposite. I think that there are smart ways to use boost, and I'd like to see Sega continue to work on implementing it in better ways than they have previously.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I think BOTH can be done effectively.

    For starters, boosting on rails should NOT be allowed.

    Rails should only use the momentum in motion when hitting the rail. Rails should only go DOWN. Never up, or in loops, or along random long stretches.

    Boosting should act like in Colors, but be far more rare. Spin Dashes and rolling should be used most of the time. Boosting is like having the Invincibility and Super Speed Boxes meshed into one move, so it should only be useful for certain situations, like running on walls.
     
  11. SteelBrush

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    In an ideal world Sonic would go into "boost mode" and become invincable as long as maximum speed is maintained. It would be a neat reward for gaining and keeping speed. It would be better than instant boost button. Although I've never played Unleashed or Colours.
     
  12. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    I never quite understood the point of sliding, since Sonic is supposed to be able to roll, and isn't that the same damn thing?
     
  13. <!--quoteo(post=578622:date=Apr 15 2011, 07:33 PM:name=SteelBrush)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SteelBrush @ Apr 15 2011, 07:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=578622">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In an ideal world Sonic would go into "boost mode" and become invincable as long as maximum speed is maintained. It would be a neat reward for gaining and keeping speed. It would be better than instant boost button. Although I've never played Unleashed or Colours.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Wait...you mean <a href="http://info.sonicretro.org/Bolt_Attack" target="_blank">like this?</a> Except more controllable of course...
     
  14. Azookara

    Azookara

    yup Member
    I think upward rails are actually a good idea, but only whenever they are led into by another downhill rail, giving you the ability to have enough speed to slide up the rail. Either way, you are challenged against gravity and momentum, which I think the Sonic series should have more of regarding ground or object-attached movement. Even so, I wish to not see rails randomly suspended in midair with no purpose again. Handrails, halfpipe edges, fencetops, ropes, railroad tracks and building beams? Yes please. Stuff like from Apotos and such? Erm, no thank you.

    I wouldn't mind seeing classic Sonic grind as long as it functioned like Sonic Adventure 2's mechanic. Otherwise, no; do not want.

    <!--quoteo(post=578624:date=Apr 15 2011, 06:36 PM:name=Dark Sonic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dark Sonic @ Apr 15 2011, 06:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=578624">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I never quite understood the point of sliding, since Sonic is supposed to be able to roll, and isn't that the same damn thing?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yeah, except sliding is used somewhat as braking because of it's incredibly high friction. Then again, pressing the opposite direction on the analog stick does the same thing yet more effectively, so it makes the slide even more useless. Maybe lose some of that friction, and then get that stupid slide to become a roll. :v

    <!--quoteo(post=578622:date=Apr 15 2011, 07:33 PM:name=SteelBrush)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SteelBrush @ Apr 15 2011, 07:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=578622">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In an ideal world Sonic would go into "boost mode" and become invincable as long as maximum speed is maintained. It would be a neat reward for gaining and keeping speed. It would be better than instant boost button. Although I've never played Unleashed or Colours.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Sonic Advance 2?
     
  15. Vaiz

    Vaiz

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    Man, thank you guys. Up until right now I could never pinpoint why SA2 grinding felt so much cooler than anything after it. It was an organic feature in Adventure 2; the things you had to grind on were supposed to be there, such as hand rails, walls, and the like. And it was very momentum based. I remember trying to grind up a rail only to find myself sliding downwards after a moment all too well. Now-a-days it's just sort of like HEY GUYS A BRIGHT YELLOW RAIL IN MID AIR GOGOGO.
     
  16. nullaccnt

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    <!--quoteo(post=578652:date=Apr 15 2011, 06:17 PM:name=Vaiz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vaiz @ Apr 15 2011, 06:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=578652">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Man, thank you guys. Up until right now I could never pinpoint why SA2 grinding felt so much cooler than anything after it. It was an organic feature in Adventure 2; the things you had to grind on were supposed to be there, such as hand rails, walls, and the like. And it was very momentum based. I remember trying to grind up a rail only to find myself sliding downwards after a moment all too well. Now-a-days it's just sort of like HEY GUYS A BRIGHT YELLOW RAIL IN MID AIR GOGOGO.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    That's a very good point that I don't think I've ever thought about. It makes a lot of sense, though at the same time it's hard to deny that grinding doesn't look cool regardless of where or why it takes place. It's just that it's implemented in a much lazier fashion recently, and, like what was mentioned above, mainly used to lengthen stages, for opportunistic "extreme" shots etc.
     
  17. MegaDash

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    Definitely in favor of either more sensible rail implementation or their utter removal. The only places I'd expect Sonic be able to grind on anything are in real life, and that would require him to be in some kind of city or on a realistic-looking Midwest canyon with a bunch of broken abandoned train tracks—less Rail Canyon and more Big Thunder Mountain. Sonic Adventure 2 remains a good enough example of where and how Sonic should grind. I enjoyed it then, but really didn't care for it in its 2D and 3D manifestations since then.

    As for the boosting and bolt attack, it's like RGamer2009 described: it's the invincibility and the speed shoes powerup rolled into a fixed refillable ability. Why not just export such a god-tier move back to Super Sonic and otherwise split it into its individual power-up boxes where it belongs? Slingerland already said it: Sonic's too powerful with it, rendering pretty much all badniks as useless and wasting space, so why even have badniks at all?

    Alternatively, I like Steelbrush's suggestion about replacing it with the bolt attack from SA1. It could provide a very satisfying reward for reaching and maintaining overdrive speed, not unlike the time travel gimmick from Sonic CD. Hey, maybe if you can collect time stones in this game, you can hit 88 miles per hour and jump through time for whatever reason. Eitherway, it would make speed far more rewarding in the game if you're also given the fluid but firm control, the freedom, and the room to work up to that speed. That could work wonders.

    Unfortunately, this all could be moot if the trailer reflects gameplay (I have my doubts, seeing as how it's a trailer). First you see modern Sonic boosting into the green hill facsimile, and then after he meets up with old Sonic, they both boost into the screen. Or at least it looks like boosting; it could just be like how Sonic would burst into a run in the old cartoons for dramatic effect, and the trailer really doesn't reflect gameplay.
     
  18. NomadTW

    NomadTW

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    I think having the boost work similar to Metroid's Speed Boost shoes or whatever they're called would be interesting. Build up a bunch of speed, and then if you want you can use that to boost at insane speeds like in Unleashed, or, if you want, you can save it for later and then just tap B to use the stored boost. And you'd keep boosting as long as you kept the pace up,. But as soon as you hit a road bump or slow down, you'd 'gear down' into a normal top speed, until you can build it all back up again.

    So that way you'd keep the meter, but instead of using rings or X power up, you'd build it up with your momentum. Sort of like a slow revving spindash that you can build up and store for later. Also not using rings or power ups to build boost would force the developers to create a level that allows you to build up your speed accordingly. Ideally, if you had any of that meter left upon completing an act, you'd also get a meter bonus.

    I'm probably explaining this wrong but you get the gist of it. :v:

    Oh, and no, I don't like the trick method Rush had. Mindless button mashing to build up boost feels cheap.

    Regardless, I doubt the boost will be anything more than an instant gratification button to spam. They've been spoiled with it for so long and it's pretty much a staple of 3D Sonic now. So much so that I fear it's the crutch that holds it all up. Too bad, I like the boost, but I really think the way it's implemented keeps the games from being truly great.
     
  19. MegaDash

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    That's a pretty elegant use of the boost meter. I definitely wouldn't mind playing a Sonic game like that. Again, it not only challenges the player to build up and maintain speed, but it also rewards them with that speed and whatever else the speed gets you in the given level. In your example, it lets them carry around a burst of speed for when they could use it. I could see a move like that breaking weak barriers or blowing enemies in or near your path away from you instead of destroying them. However, there might be bigger enemies that you can't blow out of the way because they're too big, or you get hit by a projectile.

    If we were to go with something like that, though, how would that leave the super spindash? Not the press-to-roll spindash, mind you, but the press-repeatedly-to-charge-up spindash. Building up the charge of a boost is analogous to charging up your spindash, except the former requires you to actually run around to build it up while the latter requires you to stand still. Now, I'm all for take a moment to stand still in a level for a moment, in that I don't need to be at going at an indefinite speed and pace per level, but which do you think could make for a more entertaining Sonic game and how?
     
  20. RGX

    RGX

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    Made this out of boredom, a simple what-if cover for 360. I'm actually wondering how the final box-art may look like.

    [​IMG]
     
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