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Sonic Generations Hacking (and More!)

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by Andrew75, Jun 23, 2011.

  1. As someone who hasn't played Unleashed, I would really like to play the day stages in Generations. I've heard bad things about the Werehog and deemed it not worth a purchase (learned my lesson with 2006, which I bought anyway).

    The icy surfaces in Cool Edge look really pretty.
     
  2. Falk

    Falk

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    Werehog is much more palatable than Knuckles/Tails stages in SA2. It's just such a break from the daytime stages (and something that really doesn't belong in a Sonic game at all) that the contrast kills it flat dead and really does break the momentum of the game. Heck, if I didn't have any preconceptions or were trying to get through them as fast as possible to get to the next day stage, I daresay I might actually have found them entertaining.

    That being said comparing Unleashed to 2006 is just plain unfair. 2006 was and is in its own exclusive level of suck, covering everything from the overly dramatized writing, awful gamebreaking bugs and ridiculous loading times/frequency. If you see Unleashed in the bargain bin for $10 and still can't bring yourself to buy it, you're really doing yourself a disfavor. It's a very playable game.

    edit: And I don't see how Eggmanland could ever get ported without some extensive renovation. You really need to experience that stage in its original form at least once. Especially if you have any masochistic tendencies whatsoever.
     
  3. darkspines35

    darkspines35

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    Just so everyone knows, the porting and stuff is pretty basic since Havok has the ability to place animations for one skeleton onto another, as stated on their website. So you should be able to swap anyone with who ever you want.
     
  4. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    Facinating. Could you perhaps explain this process to someone who knows pretty much jack shit about hacking? I'm extracting the files (probably should have extracted them in separate folders in retrospect... eh I'll just do it again), and I was wondering how would you go about editing the character models? Do you have to simply just rename the file of, say, classic_eggman to classic_sonic and it would just take over or is there more to it then that.

    I'm guessing there's more to it then that.
     
  5. JaxTH

    JaxTH

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    I hate to jump forward like this but is there any chance that Colors pretty much uses all the same files as Unleashed and Generations?
     
  6. Aerosol

    Aerosol

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    *I almost said it doesn't use the Hedgehog Engine, so no. I was this close to being a retard.

    Anyway, the possibility is there if Colors uses Havok (which it does, I think..), but the model formats are almost completely different. Atleast, I think so.
     
  7. darkspines35

    darkspines35

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    It actually uses PhysX. Like every other Sonic Wii game (Except the Olympics series maybe?). The model format, however, is brmdl0 which is the Wii proprietary format (I think that's the right term). This format is entirely different than .model, so it'd require a converter to use.
     
  8. Aerosol

    Aerosol

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    You know, the PhysX logo was nagging at my head while I typed that, and I kept telling myself "no you fool, you're thinking of something else!".

    So yea, no Colors level porting. You can certainly recreate Colors levels, though, but that might be more work than it's worth. Also, no double jump in Generations.
     
  9. Guess Who

    Guess Who

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    HEY GUYS

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vha6qrH23f0
     
  10. JaxTH

    JaxTH

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    Someone already did that before. A while ago.
     
  11. Chimera

    Chimera

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    Not only does Colors use PhysX (which is irrelevant since we're making the collision from "scratch" and then exporting as .hkx format due to platform exclusivity), if I recall right PolygonJim stated the level format for Colors (and possibly Secret Rings) is actually similar to Sonic 06 :specialed: (don't quote me on that). We're lucky because Unleashed has pretty much the same format as Sonic Genenerations when it comes to terrain files, and has similar objects/badniks to Unleashed. if it didn't, welll... Nothing other than the character swaps would be happing right now :P

    Colors stages CAN be imported if...

    A: We find out how to import level geometry or custom object geometry
    B: We find out how to render out lightmaps that will look accurate in Generations for said objects
    C: ...Actually I think that's it in terms of importing a level. Feel free to correct me, since we already have object editing (which includes physics properties) and collision creation. If anything, making replacement/additional enemies seems more likely.
     
  12. BlazeHedgehog

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    Generating real GI data from scratch is going to be the hard part. That typically requires networked render farms because it's so process intensive, and can take days. For guys like us, generating the kind of GI data used by Unleashed and Generations would probably take weeks, if not months.
     
  13. Lobotomy

    Lobotomy

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    Folding@Retro anyone? :v:
     
  14. That has to be the greatest idea I have ever heard. I would totally help out with it if it ever becomes a reality, my computer is online every day, all day long. (I'm trying to download a massive torrent that's larger than I originally thought.)
     
  15. Portalboat

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    I'd be happy to contribute my computer as well.
     
  16. Twilightzoney

    Twilightzoney

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    I still need to work on my collision mesh some more. I forgot at the water part it caves inward since I only did it topographically. So I have to redo that part and put up some more boarders and dividers into it.
     
  17. Digiku

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    Does Colors already store some sort of lighting data? Of course the lighting is rudimentary compared to Unleashed, but as far as I can tell, Colors follows the same principle of placing textured shadows on the terrain and calculating when 3D objects should be shadowed. Sweet Mountain 1 is chock full of this: see 0:25, 0:46, and especially 1:40

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsDwm_I1_VM[/youtube]

    First I'd ask if this "lighting data" -- terrain textures and object lighting -- is stored separately from the level geometry. If it is, then I'd wonder how hard it would be to interpret Colors' data and reconstruct it by hand to Generations' GIA format: could the GIA format be simple enough to construct something rudimentary from scratch. Best case scenario, does Colors store lighting in a similar format?

    But of course, Colors GI would be epic :P
     
  18. This has probably already been covered, but what's your method for making this? Are you replacing levels in Generations to do this, or have you found a method of ADDING levels to the game?
     
  19. Joe T.E.

    Joe T.E.

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    Big the Cat in Sonic Generations, High-Res HUD for Sonic Lost World, Metal Sonic Lost World (Version 1.0,) Sonic Generations: Episode Metal (Version 3.0.)
    Judging from what I've seen within the Super Smash Bros Brawl modding scene (that game uses the same model formats as Colors), the Wii does seem to support stage lighting in some capacity. I'm not exactly sure how it works, but I do know a little bit about the mdl0 format's role in it.

    Some notes (I may be wrong on some of the minor details, but the general concepts are right):
    1. Most of the models in Colors use similar textures and UV-maps compared to Unleashed. In fact, Sonic's textures are a mix between Unleashed textures and Brawl textures (The Unleashed ones have slight color differences, lower resolutions, and SD in place of HD in the filenames, while the Brawl ones are mostly unaltered besides the names.) There's a bit more to it, but I'm not the best guy to be explain it in full detail.

    2. The Wii uses materials and shaders (allowing mutliple textures to be layered onto objects, and coordinating how the environment and lighting affects the textures) to create shadows, highlights, and color tints on the models themselves. Technically, all Wii games can do this, but not many games utilize them to full effect.
    For example, Super Smash Bros Brawl uses them quite well. Hilariously enough, Brawl uses the Havok physics engine (though it still uses mdl0 and all associated animation and texture formats.)

    3. The shadows are actually just untextured low-poly models. The game flattens them (similar to how the Brawl characters are flattened in the Flat Zone 2 and Hanenbow stages), places them at a similar level to the ground, and has them replicate the animations of the main model. For example, Sonic's shadow is a low-detail version of his ears and upper spines, while the ball shadow uses the ball model without the textures. (In Brawl, the shadows were done in a better way, and used full low-poly copies of the Character models.) I can assume the game keeps track of where to place these model-based shadows, as well as how to manipulate them outside of copying animations.

    Generations doesn't do any of that from what I've seen. I can safely say that porting Colors stages would require all collisions and lighting data to be made from the ground up.
     
  20. Dario FF

    Dario FF

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    So far we're just replacing the levels in the game's slots, but the files should be easy to change with a mission file for example. I bet it will be possible to add extra gates if that's what the majority demands.

    As for my work, I'm afraid I'll have to stop working on this as much as I have for most of the first half of February. Real life gets in the way and I have to study, but never fear as I'm excited as hell to keep working on this, and as soon as I'm done after mid-February with pesky exams, I'll get right back on this.

    That doesn't mean the project won't get worked on while I'm busy these weeks. I've pretty much dedicated the entire day to ripping all the remaining day stages(except for eggman land) for the other two to play around with. While there's still some texture glitches, they don't need my help to fix it as they do when dealing with the stage imports.

    Since I have no collision for these stages yet I just took some air shots. Ignore the missing texture glitches. Click on the spoilers for the shots.

    Jungle Joyride
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    Arid Sands
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    Savannah Citadel
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    Skyscraper Scamper
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    Rooftop Run
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