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Sonic Frontiers Thread - PS4, PS5, Xbox, Switch, PC

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by MykonosFan, May 27, 2021.

  1. JoseTB

    JoseTB

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    But really though, it takes a titanic amount of effort and talent to build an open world that feels substantive and interesting to explore; even well-tenured high profile game dev studios very often come up with bland, barren, cookie-cutter worlds with copy-pasted scenery. There's a reason why "wide as an ocean, deep as a puddle" is a very common thing to hear when talking about open world games.

    Mad props to Iizuka and Sonic Team for attempting something insane. It'll be nothing short of astonishing if they can pull it off, but it's the most ambitious thing they've tried to do in a long time, I'll give them that.
     
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  2. MH MD

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    I am surprised that you are surprised, i don't think you missed the glaring praise Sonic Utopia got, it was not just cause physics, but how open-ended and sandboxy it was, fans LOVED that shit, and asked for years for an open world sonic game to be made, so it just makes sense that fans are also excited about the idea of potentially finally getting it, i would honestly be surprised if the reaction was anything else.

    and while i generally agree that open world in itself doesn't necessarily means ambition -so i groan with other AAA games announcing they going open world, or basically all Ubisoft game-, but in the context of sonic games? of Sonic Team? of what they did in the past, how usually short and linear their games are? how the last game was just a retreat of older style? it IS ambitious what they are trying to do here, exploring thing they didn't attempt in the past that requires way more effort than their usual games, there is no need to downplay it.

    And i actually dislike Utopia, and dislike open world games in general, and Ubisoft style games, even GTA5 i didn't like it at all, and i used to like previous GTA games, so that should tell you my stance on what maybe i would think of this new game.

    That doesn't mean it's not ambitious what they are doing, or not interesting, cause honestly, the idea of open world platformer in this style is rarely explored at all.

    You can get and understand why fans or other people find something interesting even if you personally do not share the same opinion.
     
  3. Swifthom

    Swifthom

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    All I have to say about why sonic fans may be more keen on open worlds than expected?

    Four words.

    No more bottomless pits.
     
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  4. MontiP

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    Doesn't BotW have bottomless pits?
     
  5. Frostav

    Frostav

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    What I want to know now is mainly how the game is structured. Because the leak points to two things:

    -The main world is big and not just a hub that takes you to more tightly-designed levels...
    -...but there ARE "generations-style" levels in the game anyway

    Given how Sonic Team has said time and time again that making boost-style levels is very expensive and time consuming, so making them AND an open world feels like an odd choice--the alternate gameplay styles of Unleashed and Generations were specifically built around slower characters where they could maximize gameplay-time per square meter (with the Werehog being a near-farce). Which leads me to another thing: I'm not sure this actually is a boost game, frankly. I feel the leaker would have just said "there's boost" if it were, and the whole gameplay philosophy of the boost games is just utterly unworkable in a big open environment. Perhaps he just meant "there's linear levels alongside the main open world". I'm not saying we're returning to Adventure-style controls here, but it's a thing to think about. In addition, a slower, less hyperspeed control system means they can make longer levels that don't blow by so fast--if the open world has any meat to it at all, I just don't see tiny 2-3 minute Generations-style levels working in a game that may be like 20-40 hours long, unless there's like literally twenty of them or something. Which would cost a ton and eat into the open world so much it seems unfeasible unless this game has a MASSIVE budget.

    The other option is the controls are looser and freer in the open world and more boost-style in the "generations-style" levels. But this is probably unlikely because that would be really jarring, and the leaker mentioned nothing about the gameplay style changing. I think that would have been a notable but still vague enough thing to mention if they did--and open-world games generally don't change gameplay styles except in special mini-games, missions, etc.

    Perhaps Sonic Team is trying to actually create a singular unified gameplay style across the whole game here? What that would be, I don't know. I'm not going "ADVENTURE GAMEPLAY?!" here. But I just find it hard to believe this is a boost game.

    There is a "boost effect" in the trailer, but frankly I think that's actually the spincycle and not boost at all.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2021
  6. SonicGenesis89

    SonicGenesis89

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    I have a feeling that this game has been in development for a long while now maybe as far back as when Sonic Forces was either still in development or just released. The reason I feel this way is because a while back we had heard that Sonic Team recently sought out and rehired some of the Sonic Adventure field designers and programmers which is what sparked everyone's interest into thinking they were going to be making a Sonic Adventure Remake. Instead, I have a strong feeling that this game might actually be a spiritual successor to Sonic Adventure. I think the gameplay could possibly be a hybrid of Sonic Adventure gameplay mixed with Unleashed style gameplay and open world esque Hub World areas. The fact that according to the leaks you enter the Unleashed style stages through portals solves a problem of Sonic being in an open sandbox with nothing to do as is the case in most open world Sonic fan games. I believe it was Zippo who claimed that the next main 3D Sonic game was going to be an Adventure styled game with multiple playable characters. I think this all might actually be true and possible.

    Even though the teaser trailer only showed Sonic running through a forest, there's a lot of subtle little details you can take away from it. For example, the amount of realistic detail of the environment is visually stunning and beautiful and the fluidity of Sonic's movements shows a great level of care and attention to detail which hasn't been seen since Sonic Unleashed. We haven't seen Sonic looking so animated and expressive in cutscenes for a very long time. We can also see subtle design choices for Sonic's model that deliberately go back to his Sonic Adventure design. One of the biggest examples of this is when the camera pans close to Sonic's foot as it touches the ground and the speed of the video slows down to have you really focus on it. Sonic's shoes are more elongated like his Sonic Adventure 2D artwork and 3D model and his foot curves upwards exactly as it does in the 2D artwork in an exaggerated fashion. I find this incredibly interesting.

    [​IMG]

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    Sonic Team seem to be very secretive and protective of this game which leads me to believe that they are putting a lot of effort and care into it. This might be their most ambitious project in many years and they seem to really want it to be good and succeed. Even Aaron Webber stated on Twitter a while back that Sonic Team wanted to take more time and care into making their games for the future. I honestly think they are putting their all into this new project and that really makes me happy. I have a good feeling about this game. I think it might actually have the potential to be the best 3D Sonic game that can please a lot of the fans. Of course, we still have to wait until there is actual gameplay to see, but from the vibe it is giving me, the fact that they hired a bunch of Sonic Adventure team members back, and even the information from those leaks that I believe are most likely real, this game sounds very promising.

    I know that some of the leaks mention some not so great things about the game that will make anyone worry, but I'm honestly not too worried about it because the focus testers were playing an incredibly early build of the game that was simply a proof of concept. This is the case for any game in it's infancy. It's bound to have all sorts of glitchy problems or be barren and bare bones. I think it's extremely unfair to judge a game based on it's early prototype and without seeing any of the current footage of the later builds. That's like judging Ocarina of Time based off of it's early betas which consisted of Super Mario 64 cartoony graphics, small dungeon test rooms with very early 3D models, or the giant alpha looking Hyrule Castle Town that was void of any life at all. The final game was nothing like that. Imagine how bare bones the proof of concept prototype for Breath of the Wild must have been but the final product ended up being a great game! As Sonic fans who have an affinity for Sonic prototypes we of all people should know how much a game can change in a short amount of time through heavy development. I think judgement on it's gameplay should be done when we can actually see some footage for ourselves and also when the game reaches it's final release. As well, as focus testers, it's their job is to test out the game and give their positive feedback and critique so issues such as what was described in those leaks can be addressed and fixed early on in development. That's the whole point of people testing out these early prototypes in the first place.

    I'm actually starting to believe that this was Sonic Team's main project all along that they have been investing all of their time, heart, and energy into as well as the Hedgehog Engine 2 while Sonic Forces they gave to their interns to work on instead. It would honestly explain a lot lol. People who are sad about not getting a Sonic Adventure 3 or Sonic Adventure Remake I think should hold their judgement until they see this new game because I think it might just be a new take on what they all want. I'm honestly glad it's not a Sonic Adventure Remake, as much as I'd love to have that, I want something new and something that can take the good things that Adventure and Unleashed both had and take it a next step forward and I believe this game might just be that. This could be the next Sonic Adventure 3 (Sonic Adventure 4 if you count Sonic 06 lol) but with a new name and taken a step further.

    According to the leaks we have open world areas just like Sonic Adventure (Station Square, Mystic Ruins, Egg Carrier) You can count Sonic 06 here too with locations such as Soleanna Castle Town, New City, and Soleanna Forest. Sonic Unleashed also had this but on a smaller scale. You access traditional stage gameplay through portals (In Sonic Adventure you went through certain areas to access a stage such as using the keys to unlock Windy Valley and Ice Cap, ect. Moreover, in Sonic 06 there were literally portals that you went through that took you to the stages from the Hub Worlds). There's the mentioning that the open world has puzzles that unlock playable stages and areas, you know what game also did this? Sonic Adventure. We had to find keys to unlock certain stages like Windy Valley and Ice Cap zone, and find and hit switches to access stages like Casinopolis, figure out the pattern to access Final Egg, ect. It really sounds like they are taking what Sonic Adventure started and taking it a step further with modern gameplay.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
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    The whole exp and skill tree thing is very reminiscent to leveling Sonic up in Sonic Unleashed to make him faster and give him more Werehog fighting abilities. It sounds like they might be taking that concept and taking it a step further and enhancing it.

    The Spin Cycle move (where Sonic spin dashes into a circle to take out enemies) sounds like an interesting way to reinvent the spin dash if you ask me. The spin dash was always kind of clunky and useless in 3D, especially now with the boost and the fact that you can just go around enemies in an open world esque area. I think this could be a good way to solve the initial problems with the spin dash while also utilizing it in a new and creative way. Who knows, maybe this is a really fun move to do?

    Some of you guys mentioned earlier that the open world idea frightens you due to the fact that you might not be able to fully access the Unleashed style stages right away. I think after fully completing and 100%-ing the game would make those stages fully available to play whenever you want. I don't see that changing just because it's suddenly open world. In Sonic Adventure, after beating the stages you could access them in the main menu, or through traveling in the Hub Worlds access them in Story Mode. In Sonic 06 it's the same exact set up where you can again access the stages either via the main menu or through the portals in the Hub Worlds. Same goes for Unleashed as well, accessing them either through the main map or through the Hub Worlds. I don't see this changing at all with this new game so I don't think people need to be worried about any of that.

    The theme of this game seems to be about nature or nature versus technology. I think a giant tree boss sounds kind of cool lol. Maybe he has a cool design and interesting attacks who knows. The ghost girl could be like a forest spirit or something. This game gives me a very Celtic vibe to it and it is drawing inspiration off of Breath of the Wild. Perhaps Sonic interacts with forest spirits throughout the game. In one of the leaks, someone mentioned little rock spirits inspired off of the Koroks from Zelda that Sonic can rescue and will follow him around. I think the theme of this game sounds very fascinating and it's something very different and new than what we are normally used to seeing from Sonic. I'm honestly glad we are getting something really new because I'm tired of the same things being rehashed all of the time. I'm glad it seems like Sonic Team aren't afraid to try new things this time around as has been the case for a long time. I honestly feel like this is a natural progression for Sonic by the sounds of it. Taking what worked well in both Sonic Adventure and Unleashed and going forward taking it to the next level. I'm honestly excited to see more of this mysterious game. I wonder if it'll be showcased at E3 this year or if it'll be too early.

    EDIT: I also just remembered that a while back Takahashi Iizuka mentioned he was revisiting the older games such as Sonic Adventure to see some of the things they did back then, to see what was good and what worked and how they can take that going forward. He was revisiting the older games for a fresh perspective and to get back to Sonic's roots. That's another interesting thing to take into consideration with this new game.

    Now, what I want to know is why this game is called Sonic Rangers. It's such a strange title for a Sonic game which is also another reason why I believe those leaks are most likely real. They are just too on the nose with certain details in my opinion. It's funny because I read those leaks months ago and brushed them off thinking they were most likely fake and now here we are. Even back then, I thought the idea of an open world Sonic game sounded really cool and awesome. I love Breath of the Wild and as I played that game I couldn't help but imagine how it would be exploring the world as Sonic. Imagine being able to just jump and roll down a mountain and take out a bunch of enemies like a bowling ball hitting some pins. With Sonic running so fast you can do some crazy stuff and practically fly through some of the areas. I think there is a lot of fun that can be had here.
     
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  7. KingOfBunnies

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    Look, whether this game is good or bad has yet to be seen. However under no circumstances should you trust a 4chan poster about how a game actually feels to play.
     
  8. Azookara

    Azookara

    yup Member
    As someone who generally doesn’t like open world games, I know my reasons for disliking them comes down to one basic reason: your choices are too open ended and your movement is too slow because the world is too big.

    The former issue is yet to be seen whether it’s a problem or not (though sonic being an all-ages and simple game series might mean it’s a bit more straightforward than usual open world fare), but the latter actually makes Sonic sound better suited for this than some since he’s way faster than the average character. It just comes down to how well he plays..

    But no, my biggest concern is the comments on combat. I want to give a huge “no thanks” to that, but I won’t 100% deny it until I see it in motion or at least give it a taste.
     
  9. Snub-n0zeMunkey

    Snub-n0zeMunkey

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    I just had a thought, what if this is the game that finally brings back the Chao Garden and it's just a literal garden in a secluded woods area or something like that? Like Korok Forest in Breath of the Wild or something

    Like, you don't have to go through menus or loading screens, you literally just travel to a part of the map and now you're at the Chao Garden lol I'm getting too carried away here
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2021
  10. Wildcat

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    I’m glad a lot of people are at least interested in the game. I thought for sure more would be negative towards it. Personally I’m already sold. Not based on the leaks or teaser...just that we’re getting a new, and seemingly larger scale, Sonic game.

    I always get excited for a new Sonic game. A few have left me underwhelmed (I didn’t think they were awful) but I don’t hold that as a sign Sega or Sonic Team cannot make a good game anymore.

    The leaks have to be somewhat true. Like mentioned they match up too well. Especially the name. It’s also true the game could go through changes between the demo and release. Either way there’s plenty of time for it to be in development. I don’t care if it’s following a trend. What game/movie/show is completely original in concept?

    It’ll probably have flaws. Every game does. The Werehog combat was pretty button-mashy. I’m curious to see how moving around the world works. Like I said yesterday it cannot be like the fan stuff that allows for spamming the landscape. It sounds like they figured out a structure of some kind.

    I cannot see the open world working without some kind of speed cap. Off the top of my head it’s probably something like the Zelda-Lost World stage and Lost World’s control in general until you enter a level/portal.
     
  11. Beltway

    Beltway

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    Can I just say, I really love how Sega's attempts to reveal Sonic games with cryptic, meaningless nonsense have been backfiring on them with the games being leaked through other sources? It happened with TSR (Walmart leak), and it's happened once more (with feeling!) with Sonic 2022/Rangers. Even Sonic 4 had it's "starving dog" techniques undermined by the game leaking twice (both episodes, but Episode I's Partnernet leak especially). I'm really enjoying it, keep them coming.

    Because until the Rangers leaks were discovered and corroborated with each other, I was of the mindset that they might as well had not even bothered with that teaser and just said "Yes, we're making a new Sonic game due for 2022 for *insert platforms here*. See you soon!". It's kind of interesting, but it's too short and too obtuse to really mine anything from it. It was more of the same garbage from what they call their marketing department. And that was all I had to say until the aforementioned leaks--which given the consistency of information and how old some of the 4chan leaks are (well before the announcement), I'm inclined to believe they are real. (It helps that this isn't the first time a Sonic game was leaked on 4chan...although that was back in 2014.)

    As someone that does think a sandbox Sonic platformer could work and has been writing/drawing up some ideas on how the concept can be executed well, Sonic Team attempting an open-world Sonic game does interest me, if only just a bit. It's far more interesting than the studio making another game with badly-cloned Boost gameplay (probably with another round of damaged Genesis gameplay to pad out the content), if their last game is anything to go by. But I do not believe in the capabilities of their designers to pull it off (the leakers' complaints about the exploration and combat being dull is...well, a dull surprise for me); and it's precisely due to this:

    To me, there is a higher probability in, say, Evening Star being hired to design a sequel to Shadow the Hedgehog and making it amazing; than Sonic Team throwing out their entire encyclopedia for building Sonic games and restarting from scratch for a open-world game. I'd bet a dollar that the complaints by the playtesters is the outcome of ST running into problems in trying to make a sandbox where the gameplay is as scripted and directed as it is in something like Forces and Lost World. Which, I'm not gonna lie, kinda excites me a bit. If only to see just how butchered the final result is.

    Can you imagine a sandbox game where despite having a large environment where you would normally expect the benefits of free movement and exploration, the world is still designed to be super controlling in what the player can do or where the player can go like in the previous games?




    I'm cackling my ass off at the very thought.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2021
  12. Gestalt

    Gestalt

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    I'm neither an expert in open-world games nor have I played Skyrim, but I've 100 %ed BotW and think that Xenoblade Chronicles X is a good game, so here are my thoughts on an open-world Sonic game:
    First off: The reason why BotW is considered one of the best games of our time is because of its world map. Every single inch of Hyrule is well crafted and serves a purpose. There is no getting lost because there's always something new to discover. Link is also a born open-world protagonist imo. It suits him like his stupid tunic. BotW invites you to take it slow and enjoy exploration to its fullest. If you've played BotW you know what I mean. So to get back onto topic: I've read the leaks, and damn, that doesn't sound like a 10/10 to me. I mean, Ok, this is new terrain for Sonic Team, but still.

    So I made a list of things which I thought would be neat in Sonic Rangers:
    • Sonic needs a power-up that enables aerial travel: Does the Tornado/Super Sonic/Crimson Eagle count? Why not something more interesting like these here from Starlight Carnival (barrel rolls, corkscrews, U-turns and somersaults included)?
      [​IMG]
      Like running through air! Of course this would have to be a time-limited power up.
    • Sonic needs an anti-gravity jump: Either that, or SA1's spin dash. Either way, something that lets you cheese through boring platforming sections.
    • Open-world games are time-consuming: There need to be a few chill out spots, NPCs, familiar faces, something to distract you from the collect-a-thon aspect of the game.
    • If there's a loop-de-loop, make sure it's possible to run through it to your heart's content. The same goes for ramps and pipes.
    • Sonic's running animation in the teaser reminds me of Raiden's Ninja Run from MGR:R. Cool! But don't forget the pinball physics!

    That's it for now. I know they're hard to make and take a lot of endurance, but it'll pay off if you do it right.
     
  13. Frostav

    Frostav

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    I agree. Which is why I'm looking mainly at the statements of his that are just objective statements and not value judgements. Of course, I'm starting from the axiom "the leaker is describing a game that exists and which he playtested". He could just be making shit up! But anyone could be making shit up at any time and we got nothing else to go off of, and what concrete details we do have point to Sonic Rangers probably existing in SOME kind of way. Anyway:

    "The game is open world."
    "The game has Generations-style levels alongside the open world."

    These are just objective statements, as in there's no subjective matter to the fact. If he did playtest this game, then that already says something. Combine this with him conspiciously not mentioning different gameplay styles when the leaks of previous games which did have different gameplay styles usually mention them. I simply find it very hard to believe that he would just not mention that the gameplay radically changes in different parts of the game. That is an extremely noticeable thing that would be brought up.

    So the game appears to have one gameplay style. In other words, the linear stages and the open world need to work with one unified gameplay style. I simply do not see the boost formula working in an open-world, without such drastic massive overhauls that it would cease to resemble the boost style.

    So, I'm guessing--not hoping, or predicting, just guessing--that the gameplay and controls will be looser and less rigid and automated than the previous games, not because I'm a hopeless fanboy who wants that, but because the game as described doesn't make sense with boost gameplay. Of course, "the boost formula doesn't work in an open world" is a sorta subjective statement, but honestly, one I don't think is too objectionable. The style is heavily defined by linearity, scripting/automation, and simplistic moves that are designed to do one thing and one thing only (stomp breaks floors/blocks; slide goes under stuff; homing attack attacks enemies). This is the exact opposite of what a open world game necessarily needs, because that genre by design needs a certain degree of emergent freedom.

    So yeah. I'm not going "OMG SONIC RANGERS IS GONNA HAVE CLASSIC-STYLE PHYSICS AND BE SUPER COOL AND NOT BE BOOST BECAUSE BOOST SUCKS", I'm going "Sonic Rangers seems like it won't be a boost game because what few details we have on it, assuming they're real, describe a game that the boost gameplay would literally not function in".
     
  14. Snub-n0zeMunkey

    Snub-n0zeMunkey

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    I didn't even think about if there would be friendly NPCs lol, for some reason I was assuming this game was gonna take place in an unpopulated Shadow of the Colossus-esque wasteland
     
  15. Gestalt

    Gestalt

    Sphinx in Chains Member
    Well, wouldn't that be depressing. ^^
     
  16. Shaddy the guy

    Shaddy the guy

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    Well, the alleged leak suggests it was a little barren. I'd have to imagine the reason for that traffics somewhere between "it's a demo so they didn't have the NPCs available" or "it was early so they weren't there yet". I think it would be pretty weird to have Sonic's world be completely empty, especially since Forces gave them an NPC-o-matic.
     
  17. Azookara

    Azookara

    yup Member
    If this game is automated as Lost World or Forces was it's going in the trash, for real. lol
     
  18. Aesculapius Piranha

    Aesculapius Piranha

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    Not necessarily true and obstacles in Sonic games are a good thing. I mean for crying out loud one of the biggest criticisms of Forces by many was "too much holding boost to win"

    Regarding open world philosophy, Adventure fans are who Open World Sonic should make the most sense to. Just imagine Adventure with seamless transitions into Zones.
     
  19. PicklePower

    PicklePower

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    Indeed. Which is completely absurd to think about.

    Sonic Rangers (based on what we know from these rumors) and most of the games from the past 20 years simply aren't Sonic games. These are Sonic games:

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    When they try to shovel side-scrolling gameplay into games (Sonic Forces, Sonic Generations, Sonic Colors) to apparently appease people that want these kinds of things, the physics are pretty much always wrong, the level layouts and designs are uninspired, and they simply aren't fun to play. They all but perfected the physics 30 years ago with Sonic 1. They almost need to just look at Retro's/@Lapper's excellent Sonic Physics Guide work on the wiki and take that to heart.

    Nintendo continues to make fresh, modern Mario games that are completely within the spirit of Mario, and most importantly, they play exactly how a Mario game ought to play in regards to physics. Imagine what Sonic versions of Super Mario Maker, the Super Mario Bros. 35 battle royale style game, or Paper Mario could look like. These are great games that take the same Mario formula and build on top of it.

    I'm more convinced that the talent just doesn't exist at Sega today to make an actual Sonic game. If they take pride in making great Sonic games, it doesn't show. I really hope Sonic Rangers proves me wrong, but I'm at the point where I wish that the Sonic IP would get sold to Nintendo where it could possibly be done some justice.
     
  20. Azookara

    Azookara

    yup Member
    3D Mario hardly resembles 2D Mario so I’m not even sure how that argument holds much if any water. They’re very fundamentally different kinds of games, with different controls, level design, progression and iconography. Only 3D Land/World act as a branch between the two, and even then Bowser’s Fury leans into a territory familiar mostly only to 3D Mario players.

    The “spirit” being there is subjective, anyways. Classic fans state it was gone when the Adventures happened, Adventure fans said it was gone when 06 happened, 06 fans say it left when boost happened, so on and so forth.

    No, the thing that keeps Mario together is that it’s good. Well thought out, well put together, standing tall on its own merits. That’s all that ever mattered.

    If Sonic never struggled with quality, NO MATTER if he tried wildly different things, we wouldn’t be fussing about this today quite like we do.
     
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