Sonic Frontiers Thread - PS4, PS5, Xbox, Switch, PC

plus it's a callback to the SA1 spindash, which was also fun and totally broken

 

Did they fix the draw distance yet?

 

Is the earth flat?

 

I definitely wouldn't say this Spin Dash is the best thing they could've done, lmao.

It's pretty fun to ramp into the air, and spamming it like SA1 or Gens is really nostalgic. But the fact that it has hardly anything to do with building up speed or using ball physics (especially when the base game's Drop Dash does) is definitely a farce. And making it this OP just feels like a bad case where it makes having it and boost at the same time seem redundant when it really shouldn't have to be.

Plus, there's a good few videos where the weird somersault thing is proving pretty poorly made. And another video that shows that the Spin Dash charge and the spin-boost have no difference in speed. It may be fun enough for some, but it's definitely not the answer to fan's prayers that's being preached. lol

 

I pray for a day where we get another Sonic game with a spindash as fun to abuse as SA1

 

While not the way I would've implemented it - I would've preferred something more momentum-based and less like Lost World - I still think this is a ton of fun to mess around with, and a nice reward for a difficult challenge. It's honestly cathartic to snap the game in half like this.

As a consolation, Spin Dash and Spin Boost have a crapload of customizable attributes, like everything else about this game's controls. So theoretically, it wouldn't be too hard to rework it into something more akin to the classics or, for example, the Enhanced Drop Dash mod.

 

I'm looking forward to mods that make it more like a classic Spin Dash, if possible.

But I guess I'm just bothered at how for Sonic Team (and a lot of fans, it seems) see the difference between a boost and a spindash as merely cosmetic and interchangeable. It starts to make sense out of why people think having both is redundant, or why bringing back the spinning moves doesn't matter much. :\

 

Christ alive... I respect that Kishimoto is trying to make Frontiers better, but is he not seeing this kind of stuff at all when he develops and directs games? I don't know how else to describe it other than it looking sloppy and incomplete. And I also don't know how the development team or players can see things like this and say "yes, this is okay".

Even if you find the Frontiers spindash to be really fun, which a lot of people clearly do, don't you also want it (and the associated techniques) to make some sort of functional sense? This kind of jank has been tarnishing Sonic games for years for me because I just can't look past it.

Other examples of unforgivable jank would include...

• Sonic moving backwards if you try to walk slowly up an incline in Frontiers
• Being able to stand perpendicular to any surface less than 90 degrees in S4
• Ramps and paths that have entirely scripted (fake) physics that don't feel even remotely natural, purely for the sake of forcing an identical set piece every time. These are states where the player almost can't fail, because the game is playing itself. S1 got it right with the iconic set piece in GHZ1 where you come out of the S-tubes and launch into some airborne rings that's entirely dependent on Sonic carrying his momentum through the ramp and into the air. Modern games, notably Classic Green Hill in Generations, fake this by having two pretermined launch heights from the ramps. If he's going above a certain speed, he will launch to the "high mark" level with the rings, and below that speed he'll launch to the "low mark", barely above the ramp itself. The Colours example above is just a particularly egregious example of a low speed being required for the high mark (and it's only present in some acts, as different object layouts have different scripts so it's not even consistent with itself).

So yeah... Will Sonic Team ever get it right? I don't think so. They just don't seem to actually understand what they're doing wrong. They're ignorant and/or incompetent at this point. These sorts of issues maybe not always be game breaking in and of themselves and how much they bother you is subjective, but is there any argument for these issues to continue to exist? Like, does anyone think that things are better this way than being fixed?

 

I think they just need to reign it back in. No launching into the sky, no climbing up vertical terrain, fair deceleration, maybe 3 times the energy drain to make up for being faster than boost...

It feels a little better in Cyberspace without the power boost in the earlier Ouranos stages but it's hard to keep in on the ground (the curved road in the first city stage being an example.)

It's hard to properly judge this in the open zone because I don't know how it scales with player levels, and I already have the power boost.

I honestly think some Sonic GT footage might have been a reference point for this. The spindash launches up super easily and apparently the earlier version of it they had in previous update didn't do that. It can be observed by the Cyloop trail being broken while using it. I think they made a guess and figured that's how people wanted it and I think for some people they were on point.

 

So I love Sonic GT and I find the launch-ability of Frontier’s spin boost to be it’s most exciting aspect. I have two issues with it in practice: 1) Unlike GT, frontiers was not designed around this degree of aerial traversal, 2) the drop dash still has better momentum than the spin dash.

I think there can be a middle ground between frontiers’ over powered spin dash (which is a completion reward) and a literal translation of genesis sonic physics. The key is for the entire game’s level design to accommodate this. In the next game, I’d also like for the boost to follow the example of advance 2 and be a reward for maintaining your speed. This could make the coexistence of rolling and boost feasible

 

If I were to take the current rules of Spin Dashing and edit them to where I think they'd be at a good median:

1. Make the spinboost state only doable after launching a Spin Dash, or holding spin while boosting (LT+RT)
2. The spinboost drains the stamina meter VERY quickly (as quick as boosting underwater)
3. Spinning while mobile (or after releasing/depleting the spinboost) puts you in the base game's Drop Dash ball state, where you're affected by physics
4. If the ball state goes below it's speed threshold, turn to the 'somersault' state (and vice versa, turn to ball state if the somersault state reaches it's speedcap)

I know that may be a little complicated to visualize, but I think it'd allow us to keep both kinds of Spin Dash. I could see it playing really well.

 

Depends who you ask. Shame they didn't fix this glaring flaw yet. I tried what scant mods exist to alleviate the issue and they're all a bit iffy.

 

This was an extremely quality update! Spent a lot of today sinking my teeth into a lot of the content, and I've found it highly enjoyable. I've been having a ton of fun playing those action chains, turning Sonic Frontiers into a Tony Hawk game by giving it a trick attack mode is genius. Combine that with the new jump not decelerating you in the air (awesome addition btw) and I've been having a ton of fun styling around the islands trying to go for high scores. It's nice that they're everywhere too, just a simple change of your starting location forces you to change your routes and where to got to most efficiently rack up points.

The new Koco they added are also all really fun to grab. Having these larger, more extensive platforming challenges littered about just make the Open Zones feel that more lively. It definitely helps most of these are focused on free platforming and use of Sonic's abilities rather than a lot of the base game's more automated challenges, many of them really are a ton of fun. My only complaint is that they do blend in with the tiny memory token challenges, since they still use the same assets. I've had to use my map to locate a lot of these which sucks, but in all honesty they likely did all they could for this free update so I really can't complain too much without sounding entitled.

Anyways, to rapid fire all the update's more minor changes:. I love the new, more extensive loading map completion on the load screen and map menu, that helps and communicates a lot more than the generic "percent mapped" we had before. I'm honestly extremely tempted to do literally everything because I want an all gold loading screen (and fun fact: doing that completionist task gives you a new costume! Don't have it myself ofc but IIRC it gives Sonic a crown.) Getting 24 new jukebox songs from Frontiers' OST is a neat addition too, if only just because I like collecting the sound memories. Also as I mentioned earlier, the new deceleration options are so small but so game changing. Setting jump deceleration to 0 just lets you go fuckin flying, it's incredibly fun. I hate to be that guy but the physics should've been like that from launch! I think the only addition I've forgotten so far is they added the ability to turn off the Boost filter in Cyberspace. That's a nice change, nothing other to say about it lol.

Overall update rating:
Fat Koco/10

Spoiler: obligatory spindash bitching

The Spindash should've been part of Sonic's core kit with this update. Sure, make it less powerful of course, in it's current state it's definitely unlock territory, but just reduce it's speed (and maybe jump ability) to better scale with the Boost and the game's leveling and it would've been perfect. Also yeah that somersault thing is weird, it's honestly pretty funny though. Dunno why it even exists!

 

Honestly, I think as well as the spindash being borked in all kinds of ways, it's just not as fun as I hoped because Frontiers' terrain is too janky for it feel satisfying to me personally. This is of course an issue with the base game that we're all very familiar with, but I think the case for more abstract open zones (something like Sonic Utopia) only grows stronger with stuff like this. Terrain collision should be greatly simplified so Sonic can't launch himself off tiny little lips on the ground, for starters.

Beyond that, the Drop Dash and Spindash need to be unified. Make one rolling state that Sonic is put into after releasing either of the two moves that behaves pretty much as in the Adventure games. I'm still attached to the idea of charging the Spindash via the Boost meter and then the boost not refilling until Sonic stops rolling, either by the player jumping out into a run or just coming to a standstill, but a traditional rev system could be done with the current button combo. Azookara's idea of a Spinboost is also interesting and could do some funky things in combat like double or triple damage vs a regular Spindash or breaking enemy shields.

 

My thing is I just don't think utopia or GT or any of that is a good model for official Sonic games, especially in regards to how rolling and the spindash work. It minimizes the usefulness of every other move and focuses the game on (what I'd consider to be) a mindless jumping game. I'm not saying neither could be put in but I don't think they should carry as much or more weight than other things Sonic can do. It's nice to have to actually calculate your survival odds crossing a pit by delaying a double jump and air boost half a second more, etc, I don't think that kind of spindash can fit in to that.

I guess what I mean is more in the vein of SM64's movement. Sonic is a pretty acrobatic guy so it's cool to see him doing more than just spinning around all the time.

 

Me at first: spin dash requires me to S rank ALL CHAIN CHALLENGES? a bit too much

Me after unlocking the spin dash: i want moooooore!

The challenges were so immensely fun and satisfying to pull off, not as hard as I thought it would be, even though I replayed a lot of them, but they are snappy and short and easy to retry

Weird thing I encountered in Chaos island was that the game didn’t auto save after finishing a challenge, so one misstep into the lava and sometimes i lose progress in 2 challengess
But on the other hand, this island had the easiest challenges, the more automated a section is with tons of springs and rings, the quicker you rank up, so it wasn’t an issue after all

Already had +10 hours of playtime with this update, and i didn’t even attempt to do all kokos yet, having such a blast here, what a great update

 

For me the spindash is emblematic of the problems with Frontiers generally. The game has no balance and just has a bunch of ideas thrown in. Loads of different combat moves which have zero downsides and serve similar purposes but are there just to be 'cool'. Now we have a spindash which is absurdly powerful and seems to be very similar to the Boost.

The game is just really badly made. I'm intrigued to see what the additional playable characters function so will return for that.

 

One thing I wanted to see but don't see much mention of is how the Spin Dash works in combat, and lo and behold:

https://xcancel.com/SleeplessPowder/status/1672668085164154880

 

Action Chain Challenges are way more fun than I expected. I’m having a blast trying to get absurd scores. (Also, I appreciate the Sonic Unwiished reference - for those unaware, Action Chains were first introduced in that game. Grew up with Unwiished so I have a soft spot for it)

 

This looks like his Smash Bros pro gameplay but in a 3D space lol