I think Sonic Unleashed did level layout and environment blending best. The civilians and props in the background move into the areas you can run through. Take Shamar’s Arid Sands day for example. People are walking about in the streets as you run by. The levels feel alive in that game.
https://twitter.com/MoorArtGallery/status/1654180830380544007?s=20 Moor Art Gallery prints of Sonic Frontiers concept art go on sale tomorrow. These things sell out pretty quickly be ready if you're interested. I bought the Green Hill Zone racing style poster from them when they brought that out and, while I've not been able to put it up yet due to my parents' house being a work in progress and my own place not being big enough for these kinds of things, I'm absolutely buzzed to finally frame and hang it one day.
That really depends on the stage. Seaside hill is actually a stage built into cliffsides and coasts, Frog Forest is platforms set a mile in the sky for whatever reason. Egg Fleet works, Casino Park doesn't. I think it's a little reductive to paint them all with the same brush. ...So exactly like GT then. That's. That's what's wrong with GT's environments.
Talking about Heroes's aesthetic based purely on it's level design is kinda missing the forest thru the trees, isn't it?
If anything, I think this contrast evokes the Classic style even more. The classic games have always done this ultra-surreal stuff on occasion. Casino Night is a Vegas-like city that's also a pinball table for some reason. Stardust Speedway is a giant floating road made of brass instruments. And Star Light is just literally a regular-ass highway, floating in midair. In contrast to this surrealism you had areas more grounded in reality. Detailed, more realistic textures in Aquatic Ruin and Hydrocity, and even Angel Island's more traditional jungle aesthetic. These are both things Heroes does to an extent - more grounded, connected levels like Seaside Hill and more surreal "impossible" levels like Casino Park.
I mean, aesthetics also include something like music I guess. And I am no artist, nor am I a game, visual, or level designer. But I'm pretty sure that saying that a level doesn't need good level design to be aesthetically pleasing is like saying the brush strokes of a painting don't need to look good individually or when put together in order for the painting to look good. Like, we're talking about how the levels look right? Well, the freaking level pieces in a level and how they're arranged, in other words the level design, are the things that determine how a level looks, so.... What? I honestly don't even know how what you're actually saying.
I'm saying that it wouldn't require thin platforms over pits to look like Heroes. In the same way, if we said the boost era's art style wouldn't be good for open zones because their paths are hyper-linear and boost centric, it wouldn't make any sense either. Aesthetics and level design are separate things. I have a lot of not-so-good things to say about Heroes, but this subject isn't one of them. The visuals of Sonic Heroes are wild and imaginative, with tons of flashy colors, shapes and texture. If the game didn't prove that itself, then Generations definitely will. And if Generations doesn't somehow prove that, then the Sumo racing games will, and if those somehow don't prove it, then you can look at the game's concept art. It makes a lot of sense to look towards it for what a more "Sonic-y" looking open zone game would be like. And if not there, then I guess Colors, Generations or the non-DX SA1 are good places to look, too.
I think you may be confusing the idea of "level design". When people talk about level design they usually just mean the layout of places you go, the actual geometry you travel on, completely disregarding the aesthetic design. If you want a more specific term I would use the term "level layout". I have seen a good chunk of people confuse the term "level design" to mean the appearance of the level.
I view level design to encompass both, just the stuff you actually interact with being more important, but alright. Generations does take the themes of Heroes and do it better, if that's what you're saying. And I do like color, so Heroes at least looks better than Frontiers to me. It's just we're not really talking about how the levels look anymore but simply what their themes and concepts are which INFLUENCES how they look, playing a role in it, I guess. And I guess as far as that aspect of aesthetics, Heroes is okay... But I'm not really even just IN LOVE with it's themes and concepts either, to be honest. And I personally still don't view Heroes' aesthetics positively OVERALL but I guess I see what you're saying.
To be fair, I do agree with Technically Inept here, to an extent. When most people are talking about the visual aesthetics of a level, they mean the art direction, the colors, the sprite work, the textures, the lighting, etc. But a level's layout, where platforms are located, what kind of geometry is on display, etc. do definitely contribute to how it looks, broadly speaking. In other words, there can be some visual beauty in the structure itself, in addition to how it's painted.
I forgot what video it was, but someone praised Generations' Classic Sonic levels and used an example of how it implements 3D into its level design, like how in Sky Sanctuary, the camera would shift and change in a 3D manner despite playing 2D. Generations made you still feel like you're exploring the world instead of simply being on a track, despite the fact that you were literally on a track. It's a good example of how level design can contribute to the art design, and it's definitely something Forces and Frontiers' Cyber Space are missing. The former was too static (and it's also why Capital City and Null Space are some of the more memorable levels) and the latter has the same problem with the addition of everything floating in a void, which makes things less grounded and lived-in--which at least is Frontiers' point, but it's also why when comparing the levels to their templates they feel less interesting.
Sonic Heroes does indeed play like trash, but you really can't deny in terms of aesthetic it nails the Sonic vibe. Surreal, bright colours... It's essentially the utter opposite of the generic open field that is Sonic Frontiers.
Yes; I sort of think that, whether intentional or coincidental, Frontiers' base game, is a bit of a homage to the bittersweet moods of Sonic 1. Spoiler Star Light, Scrap Brain, Marble, and to partial extent, Spring Yard, are more bitter than sweet (Spring Yard is like a 50/50 blend of both) whereas Labyrinth is more sweet than bitter, and Green Hill is mostly sweet especially with the return there at the end of the game, with Sonic's victory. Followed up by the bright comic book hues and patterns of Sonic 2, the technicolor oddysey of Sonic 3 & Knuckles, and remixed into surreal beauty and mystery in Sonic CD!! It would make sense that they'd start somewhere murkier as with Sonic 1 and make the tonality more awesome and inspiring from there, even though it made for a somewhat anticlimactic return thematically. Especially now that Tails, Amy and Knuckles will all be playable and Hedgehog Engine 2 is in a good place, i think some brightness and wonder are on the way.
I put this on the Retro Wiki already, but letting you all know, Hyper Sonic was pitched and rejected for the final boss battle of Sonic Frontiers. 3:39
Makes sense because doesn't Iizuka specifically dislike Hyper Sonic, or at the very least is not a big fan of him? I think I remember him mentioning that the Sonic Adventure team specifically only kept the emeralds and not the super emeralds was because they wanted to keep control of the lore and not let it get out of hand with all of these other mythical add on elements. I know Iszuka didn't direct Frontiers but he had some kind of hand in it.
I don't know if he dislikes him, but it seems to me that Hyper Sonic only exists because of the 3 and K split. I pretty much view him as just a bonus feature rather than a part of the "lore," if you know what I mean. Does anyone here really like him because of the name and the flashing rainbow colors? Personally, I like him because of the double jump/flash attack thing, not drowning, and having 100% completion. I'd rather just see those features incorporated into Super Sonic rather than being some additional level beyond it. The decision to limit Sonic's power-ups is a good one in my opinion. That way we can avoid an SSJ2, 3, 4, SSJG, etc., situation. A line needs to be drawn somewhere. Edit: Originally, all those paragraphs started with "I," which really annoyed me. I reworded them so it would read better.
Hyper Sonic is canon but I understand what you mean. It really is just a bonus for players who played Sonic 3 before Sonic & Knuckles. But now since we are learning more about the origins of the emeralds, I would like that hyper aspect of Chaos Energy to be revisited. If for any reason, just so we can see Hyper Shadow.
The only thing bad about the PS2 version is the low frame rate. The game controls like ass on all versions. Supposedly there's subtle differences between PS2 and the other 2, but I think that's just nonsense and down to controller preference. I played the PS2 and GC versions side by side and it was a terrible experience no matter what.
I think the issue with Hyper Sonic is always going to be, "well why didn't Sonic use it before with this enemy?" For example in the fight against Dark Gaia where it took its toll on him and had Chip save the day and sacrifice himself. It would undoubtedly replace Super Sonic because why settle for that transformation when there's a higher level. I know some of you and maybe some people even working in the franchise have answers to those questions. But I do think Sonic Team's idea on not complicating stuff in that part of the lore is the right one.
