Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by MykonosFan, May 27, 2021.
I didn't even know where the fishing spots were until I got to Chaos Island
Well, if you're like me and found the Cyber Space stages and Guardian fights monumentally less enjoyable than the exploration and platforming in the Open Zone, then that's hardly a solution that you're going to have fun with.
Reminder that on the Switch version I did three (maybe four) cyberspace stages on the first island and only two on the second island and those were all the cyberspace stages I did throughout the whole game.
Everything else was supplemented between fights and fishing.
if you gonna cite critics as a proof that the game was not loved…actually, you have take In account that:
-the reviewer you cited as a proof, was both an outlier even in their time- and SEGA sent him a poster in their backyard as joke, acknowledging their review-
-same reviewer actually loved Forces, guess it’s suddenly a great game now?
-MC score of Colors…both versions, are actually HIGHER than Generations, i guess we will suddenly pretend that people didn’t actually praise and love Generations back in the day based on critics reception?
People loved it back in the day and the reception was in fact very positive, there is no denying that at all, it was helped by the negative perception that Sonic 4 had a month ago before colors release, and people getting surprised to have an actual decent 3D game
Now……that doesn’t mean the game didn’t have criticism back then, i know I personally had them too, nothing that was discussed those late years were new or some revelations, people had those issues even back then and discussed them
it doesn’t take from the fact that overall? The game was indeed positively received, was considered good, that it “broke the sonic cycle” , i was there, i have seen it all, everyone loved it? Not literally, but also not everyone love sonic 3 or sonic adventure 1/2 , but you would be naive to say that those games in general aren’t universally loved and considered to be the best in the series
i was gonna say that maybe revisionim was such a loaded term that i used it in a wrong way but it was the first thing that popped up in my mind when reading posts here, and was gonna apologize for all the derailments it may caused after i posted that, thought i was too late however.
This though, is as blatant of revisionism as it can get, to go as far as citing an infamous review even back in the day, while ignoring both the fact that other reviews exist, and that it is in fact reviewed better than Generations too.
But i dunno, maybe Gen is secretly in fact bad too and we will finally see the light once “Generations Ultimate” release and we will see tons of teitter threads and YouTube videos talking about how bad it was all along Gen gotta prepare for its turn next.
Cyberspace is hot garbage and the main thing I wanted to avoid.
Fishing is so over-generous with rewards on Ouranos that it takes mere minutes to get all of the keys and other necessary memory tokens to progress. It's definitely not 30 minutes, and I'd wager that for the average player it's actually quicker to get keys through there than beating cyberspace levels on Ouranos at least.
But the point is, if any one aspect is getting to be a bit much, fishing is a bit of a saving grace. If you're not enjoying the game on any level then yes, of course your shouldn't bother to continue playing it at all. However, if you just thought that Cyberspace was some of the worst Sonic gameplay ever conceived even though the open zone was actually alright? Fishing was a welcome option.
And having said that, I'll still of course criticise the game for its dreadful cyberspace gameplay. Cyberspace is no small portion of the game. It's not something that can really be looked passed.
To be completely fair though, I actually think ouranos has some of the best cyberspace stages in it. They were certainly more creative and actually quite a bit if fun I felt!
But if you get to ouranos and are burnt out and just want it to end I dont blame you for skipping them
I did all the Cyberspace stages and 90% of the Guardian fights because I thought they were fun but I still fished anyways just because I thought it was fun to see all the stuff you could catch. Also I wanted all the Egg Memos.
People keeping saying this and I don't get it. The style of the level design in cyberspace is Colours/Forces esque corridors with even terrain divided into lanes in 3D, or the same 2D gameplay that's been stale for a long time. Even the SA2 and Unleashed layouts got neutered in that way. Compare the opening of cyberspace 1-1 to the original Windmill Isle 1.
The type of level design used in cyberspace is naff. It's worsened by the fact that the physics are also absolute arse.
Cyberspace is dreadful at worst, rubbish at best.
I didn't say that that single review held any more water than the rest or that Colors was a bad game. Please don't put words in my mouth.
Moving the goal post. You didn't say that that Colors was "positively received", but that it's "universally loved". Big difference. For that to hold true, all critics' reviews would have to be above average, and you're ignoring all the complaints about Colors you see from fans, especially (but not exclusively) these days. So those people don't count? Scarred Sun was lying when she said that Retro's staff couldn't agree on whether or not it was even a good game?
Lastly, I can link to other multiple contemporary critics' reviews that were mediocre, indifferent or lukewarm if you want. One does not give a game they loved a 6/10 score.
Widely loved, universally loved, semantics , the point is clear i thought
i can also link reviews that gave BOTW a 6/10, guess it wasn't universally loved then?
Again, even I , personally, did have issues with Colors back then, so did others, doesn't change the fact that , generally speaking, it is one of the most positively received sonic games, even to this day
Even the most beloved sonic games had their detractors back in the day, no one Sonic game is ever really universally loved, but i also think that rings true for most games, even things like Mario Odyssey and BOTW have their detractors that had their issues since day one, some of it will be resolved with their sequels , i do dislike GOW 2018 and hate what it took away from the series but i am not gonna pretend it's not one of the most beloved games out there
Mario Odyssey and BOTW are infinitely more loved than Colors, and I wouldn't call them universally loved either. I say this as someone who loves them both. I literally see fans complain about them and their direction in every forum. Though those don't seem to compare to the rate of Colors detractors in every Sonic forum I visit, to the point I've seen Colors defenders claim they feel like they're the minority nowadays.
As for the reception, Colors had an above average (but not great) reception. I would say a 78% metascore implies it's liked overall but not loved. Though even if it were, say, 80%-90%, to call it universally loved would be to ignore the fact there were multiple critics (not just one outlier like you said) with less than glowing reviews of it. The reviews weren't all in the same score range, unlike with some games.
Even speedruns fish in Ouranos, it's much faster than doing the cyberspace levels.
Well, damn. Yeah, I really ought not to be surprised. Apparently its canon that Big is faster than Sonic.
Not really blaming you since it's a response to someone saying "your opinion would be different if xyz", but I don't think it's too hard to see why the more-liked cyber levels are more-liked. Ouranos has the least reused stages out of the islands, and only one of them is 2D. And while the level design isn't any more complex than Colors or Forces in 3D, they have to be 3D the whole way through, and this incentivizes a lot less "boost down a hallway" design. If you look at 4-4's hazards, I'd say there's more to just jumping and dodging there than any 3D section in Forces, barring maybe Mortar Canyon under very specific analysis. 4-2 and 4-4 are also the longest 3D stages outside of Adventure 2, and they both use the only non-reused level theme in the game. These are all little things individually, but they can add up.
Also, I'd argue that the weird physics aren't just what worsens cyberspace but are the #1 cause for every gameplay issue it has, as I find them about as fun as any open-zone platforming when I'm using a mod to make the game feel correct to control. I'm really hoping they just, like, patch Tracker's physics into update 1 or something. The whole game seemingly functions perfectly with it, I can't think of a reason not to do that.
Just popping in to say I spent hundreds of dollars to make sure I got the region-locked Korone DLC for PS4, yet forgot to sign up for the newsletter to get a Steam code for the SA2 Soap shoes... Ironic, no?
The Soap shoes seem to be freely available on Japanese storefronts for other consoles (at least they were when I got my Jp Switch copy last month). Is this not the case for Steam?
In any case, mods will likely take care of that for you.
The Soaps don't even render on Super Sonic normally, only mods can do it
Only for Frontiers do I have to look up videos of every single cyberspace level to remember what they are...
Right, so, yes okay I can see why those levels are regarded as some of the best. But I still maintain that "best cyberspace level in Frontiers" is an honour akin to "fewest rat droppings in burger". The jumping and platforming in these levels is so plain and bland.
I'm never going to like the cyberspace levels. The open zone platforming really isn't much better either.
I'm not trying to retroactively convince you that you enjoyed something you didn't, so that's fine I guess.
My JP PS4 copy got Soaps for free from the store, but I'm not spinning up a new Steam account just to buy Frontiers from JP Steam just to get the shoes. I'd want the game and shoes linked to my primary and only account.
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