Sonic Frontiers Thread - PS4, PS5, Xbox, Switch, PC

I could tolerate the lack of depth if they didn't try to lean into bigger ideas and just fail at them, yes.

 

Since Kishimoto is replying a lot on Twitter and seems to take fans feedback to heart, i thought that the next game would be the first we will have see the direct effect of fans feedback and seeing how it works out, would either be the best sonic game ever or worst sonic game ever, the ultimate test, the monkey paw, etc

However....



It seems that we will see the effect of fan feedback way sooner than later, would be interesting to see how the game evolve based on fans feedback, exciting times are coming

 

I've soured on Colors over the years (the wisp infestation of later games and 'Sonic finally finds his footing in 3D' thing from that Sonic 30th Anniversary vid certainly didn't help), but it's still clearly a well-liked game even from more prominent Sonic naysayers. Personally I think even with the werehog stuff Unleashed was all-around the better experience for me, but I *get* why Colors is held up higher.
It is weird that it, Lost World, Forces and Frontiers are all the brain-child of the same director, since they all feel like wildly different approaches to me. There's shared elements like the stiffer physiucs, emphasis on 2D platforming that doesn't work as well as Unleashed/Generations and a bit of an over-reliance on 'Remember the Genesis????' nostalgia pandering that doesn't really land, but there's also just as much that's different that leaves me wondering if it's a sign that Kishomoto, much like Sonic Team as a whole post-SA2 is a bit too reactionary to critic/fan responses? Generations was a success so Lost World goes all in on being 'retro', Lost World got a tepid response so Forces attempts to go back to a more '''serious''' plot style, Forces bombs so they look at BotW being one of the biggest games of the last five years and try to awkwardly meld that with Sonic.

As someone who likes Frontiers more than the other three of Kishomoto's Sonic games (the art-direction/cyberspace stages still suck tho), I hope the next Sonic game doesn't throw the baby out with the bathwater once again, or just cynically copy Colors/Generations again to play things ultra-safe to the degree where it actively hurts things. Even if it's the definitive '7/10 game', I think there's a much better foundation here than they've had for a mainline Sonic game post-Generations. Kishomoto's open-ness on Twitter with fans is also appreciated, whether it lends itself to real change or not to be seen.

On that note, I hope Kishomoto's words about looking to something more Sonic Adventure gameplay-wise aren't just for show. Replaying most of the series recently it's still really weird to me SA1/SA2 still get the 'they aged poorly and therefore are bad' treatment since yeah, they haven't aged as gracefully as SM64, literally one of the most important games ever made, but they're still pretty clearly up there with Generations for the best (official) 3D Sonic experience for me. Sonic Adventure 1 in particular just needs a bit more polish and less over-reliance on automated scripting/boosters and I think you've already nailed how Sonic jumping from the Genesis titles to 3D should control?

 

It's harder to be relentlessly negative to something when you understand where and who it comes from. The less public a creator is, the more some internet know-it-alls can say "This is the worst thing to happen to all of this media".
It's not a "redemption arc", I think that's misleading, it's just people starting to understand and see eye-to-eye with the creator. Whatever that means, THAT'S a step in the right direction, because the blind negativity schtick every time Sonic Team changes course has gotten way too old.

 

The guy clearly knows how ravenous fans can be and honestly I kinda worry how it will turn out later on but it is nice to be acknowledged more than “our fans like classic sonic so we are gonna shove him in everything.”
I’m pretty vocally critical of colors but I’ve never said it’s a bad game. Quite the opposite actually. Kishimoto is trying his hardest to learn why people have stuck with the series and what they want to see going forward, man gets some respect from me for at least trying even if the end result might not be what I want.

 

I think this may actually explain it for me. The redemption arc terminology is mostly a reference to all the countless "SONIC FRONTIERS ANIME REDEMPTION ARC?!?!?" YouTube vids that started once we heard Vandalize lol. It was so easy to trash a faceless name that made games I didn't like. Now he's a person, dammit, and I have to confront the fact that I've been crapping on a pretty nice-seeming dude.

 

What the fuck are they cooking over there. Like seriously, that's way too good to be true. Even if they really are planning on going forward with this, I'm shocked he would just admit it so openly on Twitter.

 

From a physical collector’s and media preservation standpoint, I’m hoping that whatever happens with the 3rd update either:

1) Doesn’t overwrite how the current game operates in a way that makes the physical game obsolete if servers fail.

2) Results in a new physical edition that includes the updates.

The second one doesn’t seem very likely considering that’s usually something that occurs when a couple paid DLCs have come out, but I wouldn’t mind a new printing that features different artwork. The US/EU art on my Xbox copy is okay, and while I like the art my JP Switch copy, it’s a bit too BotW. A new (worldwide design please, Sega - enough with different covers!) design could give them the chance to feature the new playable characters and any other new elements they want to include.

It’d also play into their whole “extending product life cycles” strategy and give them the chance to stick a new thing on store shelves at a marked-down MSRP in lieu of a “greatest hits” or whatever version.

Edit: Responding to that Tweet… after recently playing a lot of Unleashed and Gens thanks to my Series X (love it but I end up saving 100% playthroughs on games for my inevitable PS5 so I can get trophies lol), I really prefer how the drift looks (and operates) in Unleashed. Gens’ drift looks sloppy and feels unwieldy/twitchy.

 

One of the best things Sonic Team can do to improve the quality of Sonic games is stop caring about the playtime so much tbh, all the feedback on the world won't make a great Sonic game if the team decides the game needs to be longer...

I kinda wanna bring that up to Kishimoto but it seems extremely rude to say that

 

I agree with you but I don't expect it to change. One of the biggest criticisms they received about the modern games is game length. They redid the entire structure of the game to solve that issue, so I don't think they're going to go back on that any time soon. It'd just be wasteful.

 

And can you do me a favour and leave Metascore for the birds? I find it utterly pathetic, how many people judge a game on what it scores and it wasn't like Color's was the 1st decent 3D Sonic game either... You had the brilliant Sonic Adv and the ok Sonic Adv 2 and while 06 was pants. Sonic Unleashed was never has bad as some loved to make out and well even Sonic and secret rings was decent too.

But in this day and age, we need to go on what YouTube and metascore tells to think

 

Spot on. Sonic Frontiers is a great 1st step for the team and the game in a Open world game. I love it, also love the art style and music and it got some of the best boss battles in any Sonic ghame . I hope this all carries on, for the next game. I just really dislike 'Go and Talk' happing all the time and breaking up the flow of the game

 

I'm not judging anything by its metascore. I implore you to look at everything being said by all parties, so that you can also get a good overview. Metascores aren't the be all and end all. But whether you're looking at critic or mass audience scores, the numbers paint a picture of general reception.

Look at Frontiers. Based on 87 different critics, the PS5 version has a score of 71 (other platforms have differing scores but far fewer reviews). The user score sits at 82 based on 2808 reviews. The scores aren't a perfect indicator of course; one man's 7 is another man's 3, and that especially true of user scores which tend to have a greater number of scores at the top and bottom of the range. But again, they paint a generalised picture. Obviously the purpose is that you go and read the full reviews to get the necessary context. There's little nuance in scores on their own.

You can also look at the number of people that have reviewed all of the games. For the most reviewed platforms, Frontiers has more user and critic reviews than any other Sonic game. It's got about double the number of reviews that Forces ever had, which speaks volumes about engagement. That's also reflected in the fact that Frontiers has already sold in excesses of 2.5 million units. It's clear as day that people are gravitating towards this game.

Some people love it. Some people hate it. The general skew for opinions on Frontiers isn't dissimilar to Colours. It's more positive than negative, but that positivity isn't without its caveats and the negative comments aren't a stark minority. You've got more than just a few people calling the game bad, and even more who think it's somewhere in the middle of the road.

Compare the reception of Frontiers to something similar, like Mario Odyssey. Frontiers got mixed and positive-leaning reception, whilst Odyssey essentially got universal praise. You don't need scores to confirm that. And that's all I'm trying at. Frontiers isn't a home run.

The best 3D Sonic games, imo, are the Adventure series and Unleashed. Each one of them is let down by some massive flaws me they aren't critical darlings, but that really doesn't affect me and my enjoyment of them. Generations on the other hand I don't think is anything particularly special. Decent enough, like Frontiers, but barely scraping by when compared to other games.

 

In regards to the conversation being had currently, I feel like more of the weight was pulled by the dev teams for games pre Lost World, which has mostly left SEGA at this point. It's also worth noting in regard to sales that Frontiers marketing (as well as Sonic stuff in general) has been in overdrive the past few years. It's pretty understandable that the game would sell more given that fact. Overall, I think Colors is a relatively good game, but I would never say that Colors is on the same tier for me as Generations or Unleashed, or even some older 3D outings like Adventure. But I can see why people enjoy it. Frontiers on the other hand...

I do feel it's a decent step forward, but after really sitting down and giving a good retread about how I feel about Frontiers as a whole, I think overall I ended up negative, despite positive first impressions. It doesn't really show me they've heard anything other than "figure out how to make game longer". There is some enjoyment to be had, but I enjoyed some parts of Lost World and Forces too, so... I don't know.

For me, I feel like it's a case of being so starved for so long, anything different tasted good. I've been waiting for too long for this to be a "good step forward". I've been through this cycle before, and I'm kinda tired of it. If the next game is more of the same then I'll probably end up skipping it in a series first for me (well, outside of Free Riders because I wasn't buying a Kinect).

But if you enjoyed the game, and are really excited to see where things go from here, I think that is good for you. I don't intend for my negative feelings to take away from your enjoyment.

 

So why even bring metascore into it? I couldn't careless what metascore says or what reviews say it's a bloody good game and anything Nintendo gets universal praise, it's almost enough to make one sick. I found Odyssey to be a massive set backwards from Galaxy 1 and 2, but there you go.

I just play the games and if I like them, I'm happy and if not I'll slag them off. I couldn't careless what Youtube or metascore says . Its the same for films, listen to so-called expert reviews JC The Thing and RS BladeRunner are crap films, when they were amazing

I don't go on review scores, thanfully

 

I couldn't be Morio Kishimoto. If I had to make Sonic games under strict deadlines, a low budget, and small teams trying to make the best out of the game I wanted to make and also interact with a fanbase with people who tell me that I lack passion and that people who like my products just have low standards and don't know what Real Good Games are like...

well, I certainly wouldn't be nice enough to talk about my time developing games to people who want to hear it.

In fact, I think I would instead pop every single fans' eyes with a rusty shiv. I would share a cell with Yuji Naka.

But I'm not Morio Kishimoto, haha, so don't worry hahahahaha

Needless to say, I intensely respect the man a lot simply for what he's doing now. Even if I didn't already like Frontiers, I would be excited for what he does next.

I also wouldn't call it a "redemption arc", but it is good that (most) people see Kishimoto as, like, a person who clearly cares about Sonic and enjoy his transparency. I also feel the need to give kudos to people who are also being polite in asking him questions as well.

 

Every developer, even the all time greats, gets told they're bad at their job by randos on the internet. It's nothing new.

 

Since we using MC for somehow gauging fans love of the game or it's reputation, some context are important:

-Colors Ultimate remaster had it's issues that it bogged it down, we all know that, especially at launch

even with that, it's ONLY 4 points lower, when reviews started coming, it was about the same score as original, to maintain it's MC after more than 10 years is actually impressive, considering other rereleases didn't fare as well, historically in this same franchise, the difference of score between SA2 and SA2 is huge and really funny, considering it wasn't even a YEAR between them, you can also look at games like Zelda Skyward Sword, it got a staggering 12 points difference between the original release and HD release

or the difference between TLOU og MC score and TLOU Part 1 remake, there is like 7 points difference, and it's actually a bigger remake/remaster and an actual improvement from the original release

anyway..... Colors is in fact universally loved and one of the better received Sonic games even to this day, i am not about that revisionism that is going on here, the game isn't my favorite and i prefer the likes of unleashed and generation over it, but no denying it's popularity, the game got chosen to be remastered for a very good reason



-Sonic Origins sets at an unimpressive MC score , guess those games were not loved then if you were willing to take Ultimate MC score as it is without any context, sure can be done with Origins which fared better and had less issues, as far as reviewers and general audience were concerned



Also regarding Frontiers and criticism, it got it from day 1, it will get it after 5 years, people aren't suddenly going to turn sour about it, those who had issues with it will always have it, those who loved it will still love it, i mean, Adventure 1 and 2 are still loved and cherished to these days, and we know how full of flaws they are, doesn't take way from what they accomplish, Frontiers will be the same

I see Frontiers setting in the same place as Unleashed actually, first game in their gameplay style, trying something new, have a lot of flaws, ambitious , great production values, setting the stage for next games to iterate and improve upon , when Unleashed released, people expected the next game to improve upon it and takes it's best qualities, we had it with Generations
Does that mean that Unleashed reception turned worse? nah, it improved with time if anything, same can be applied for Frontiers, when the sequel arrives and improves on basically everything and be a better game, people will still look fondly for Frontiers for things like Undefeatable, the moody islands atmosphere and music - a thing i expect to be gone from the next game-

.....too long, too tired, opinions are a funny thing, hope people don't get too heated about it here, good day/night

 

I wouldn't call it revisionism. It's just different crowds becoming more vocal.

Take Unleashed, for example. It was received not super well on release, then people who grew up with the game began to sing its praises more openly. That's really all it is. I'm sure some people's opinions on games change over time, but I wouldn't call this "revisionism".

Happens with *everything*. The best example is Minecraft. It's gone through every single phase multiple times. people loved it, then it was cringe, then it had a renaissance, and now people are starting to dislike it again. Same shit.

 

People hate Minecraft again?