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Sonic Frontiers Thread - PS4, PS5, Xbox, Switch, PC

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by MykonosFan, May 27, 2021.

  1. Starduster

    Starduster

    Can bench press at least two Sonic the Hedgehogs Member
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    To heck with your cyberspace tracks, just keep pumping Ghost into my veins.

    This is quite neat and hopefully ends up being somewhat accurate to what they actually do with these additional playable characters. Go the classic route of taking Sonic as a base and tweaking from there. Of course we'd all like to think this is obvious but, while I've given Frontiers a lot of praise and optimism, I don't think this in particular is a guaranteed slam dunk. If they do anything other than make these fully fledged playable characters, then that won't go down well. On Tails himself, I'm thinking that his combat animations ought to be comprised of kicks and tail swipes, seeing the kid punch just doesn't feel right to me. Also thinking that each character should have their own combo finishers/special moves rather than just using Sonic's.
     
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  2. Laura

    Laura

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    The 2D in the Sonic Frontiers cyberspace levels are so astonishingly awful that I feel the need to explain them. To be clear, I think Frontiers has absolutely terrible controls in all aspects and find it embarrassing that so many fans are defending the controls as 'the best 3D Sonic has ever played' when the controls are so clearly and demonstrably shocking. I know that sounds like a very judgemental thing to say but I'm sure most people here would say the same about Sonic 4. And I genuinely believe this game has far worse controls than Sonic 4.

    To stick to the topic of Frontiers 2D cyberspace levels...

    If we were to use a tier list then Sonic 4 would be an E and Frontiers' cyberspace 2D levels would be a U. Genuinely borderline unplayable.

    You've made me load up Frontiers after not playing it since completing it just so I can explain how much I hate the controls :V

    First of all, the rails in 2D. Unplayable. Absolutely atrocious. You lose all speed every time you jump. And somehow you actually increasingly lose speed the longer you are in the air regardless of whether you hold forwards on the thumbstick or your forwards momentum. So unless you are boosting the rails in 2D are essentially broken. This results in constantly boosting and hoping you don't fall in a pit. The game mitigates these dreadful controls with automation, but unfortunately the controls are so awful that the automation is often not 'timed' correctly and you end up falling when hitting boosters and jumping.

    Sonic's ground controls. His startup speed is absolutely abysmal. It results in missing most jumps, even very small ones, because of how incredibly slow his startup speed is from a standstill. It takes many seconds for his little jog to approach anything near acceptable. Again, you end up thoughtlessly boosting to deal with the game's controls.

    When you are running forwards, it is basically impossible to turn backwards once you have jumped forwards. Sonic delays for a noticeable amount of time and nudges back very slightly. This is present also in the 3D controls. I'm talking about running and not walking here. The double jump is useless in correcting your course which should surely be the point of it (in addition to extending jumps).

    Sonic also has terrible physics which are similar to those of Sonic 4 (walking on walls, getting automated backwards onto springs, etc). But unlike Sonic 4, his actual core movement is disgusting and I would therefore consider the controls of Frontiers to be way worse.
     
  3. Chimpo

    Chimpo

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    All Cyberspace stage tracks are good and I won't hear any slander towards them. Get some ears. :colbert:

    A bit anecdotal here, but I will toss in something to support this statement. I've been collecting the Jakks Toys from the beginning. They were incredibly easy to come by for the longest time, until the movie hit.
    Every store I go to since is entirely cleared out. It's rare if I ever find one that is fully stocked. The only consistent shelf warmers are 2.5" Modern Sonic variants, but even those disappear after a bit. I hang out with other collectors across the US and they all share the experience. Those damn movies really made the line take off.
    I'm glad Tomy lost the license because they were producing mostly shit. Jakks has been killing it recently and I credit the films for them bumping the budget on these.
     
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  4. Mana

    Mana

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    Laura you've made it as clear as possible you don't enjoy this game and have expressed it in every way you possibly can. You've poked every corner of the game and came back with an experience you didn't like.

    Why not move on and play something you do like? They'll be another sonic game or even the DLC for this game to rip on next year but until then I can't imagine this being productive at this point when you've said everything that can be said about how you didn't like the game at all.
     
  5. Wraith

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    There are people in here still praising and defending the game even though they posted their official thoughts at launch. I'm not sure what's wrong with the opposite perspective.
     
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  6. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    It’s more for their sake I feel like, forcing yourself to still play and talk about something you didn’t like seems like an exercise in self torture.
     
  7. Shaddy the guy

    Shaddy the guy

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    Frontiers' fans are more annoying overall, but I've yet to see them call the opposite opinion an embarrassment. This is all going back to the objectivity argument we had months ago, this is inevitably where it leads.
     
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  8. Mana

    Mana

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    Yes expressing love and joy about something you like is a very positive use of your time and good for your mental health too.

    Once you've expressed that you didn't enjoy something and have gotten it out your system it's a bit of a losing battle to stay surrounded by people who really enjoyed a piece of media while you continue to tear it down on a consistent basis. I am in no way saying her criticisms are invalid or unfair just that she's talking in circles at this point because there's not much to add that she hasn't said before.

    I've defended Laura's right to criticized about a game she paid full price for, that's completely in her right. But to still be doing so literally a month after the game came out when there's so many other quality games to play, movies to watch, or shows to binge instead, is a bit silly and a waste of time, in my opinion.

    I have my fair share of criticisms with Frontiers too but after I expressed them I found new games to play that I enjoy more and moved on. Miles Morales at 120fps is great fun, in a related note.
     
  9. Wraith

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    You guys always act like these posts are some grand commitment when I usually type them in-between cod matches or something. A lot of the time we're already doing something else we enjoy.


    Positivity isn't inherently productive. A lot of the time in the Sonic fandom specifically it isn't, since people actively try to create echo chambers or narratives about the games that protect their ideas from being challenged.

    Venting, on the opposite end of things, isn't inherently toxic. It can actually be productive and therapeutic. It's all about balance.

    And again, like I said above. you don't know how much of a commitment these posts actually are. Again, criticizing frontiers doesn't actually take much time out of my day and it doesn't really make me miserable. I find critique fun.

    All that being said, I don't know why people are still trying to make discussing Sonic some kind of meta conversation about discussing sonic instead of just...discussing Sonic. It's more annoying than any negativity to me. Either argue Laura's points or leave it be.
     
  10. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    Agree to disagree I guess. Just seems like a waste of time to me to continue to talk about something you don’t like.

    I remember the last somewhat recently released game I genuinely didn’t enjoy, that Kao the kangaroo reboot. I beat it, even after all my data was somehow erased after world 2 so I had to do the 1st half of the game again. Never bothered talking about it. I just beat the game to get my moneys worth then deleted it. That’s it, largely forgot about it now. I think Origins came out soon after I switched to that
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2022
  11. Mana

    Mana

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    To say all this in response to what I said makes me feel you didn't read anything I wrote. I clearly mentioned I had my own problems with Frontiers that I expressed then moved on. I only made one post about the game after I beat it where I said it was "alright" then went to find something new to play that I find much better than alright (seriously Miles Morales is a great game).

    I never once said people aren't allowed to be critical of the game or express they didn't like it. I know I was critical of Frontiers and expressed what I didn't enjoy personally.

    I quoted Laura specifically because whenever I lurk I see her do it more than anyone else. One time she literally said that everyone here will realize the game is bad in a year.

    I just don't see the point of constantly arguing with people about a game you hate and see no good qualities in when there's so many other things to enjoy instead. Especially when you've said in every way that you can that you didn't like the game.

    Even if it's between CoD matches, I can still say there's better uses of your time. But please don't twist this as me saying you're not allowed to be critical about a game you didn't enjoy. It's just better to find things to talk about that you do like afterwards, especially a month later.

    And once again this is coming from someone who just thought Frontiers was alright. I just don't see the need to keep convincing people it was just alright.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2022
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  12. charcoal

    charcoal

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    People can like things that you don't. I think it's bizarre that you feel the need to call people "embarrassing" for the crime of... Liking a game you don't? Get a grip:V

    Anyway, back to the game itself, I was just thinking about how weird it is that the controls for the skateboard are amazing in Cyberspace, but it's only in two levels. It controls really smoothly and probably even better than the snowboard from Generations, but it's only in two levels! And they didn't even do the obvious thing and reuse City Escape, it's only in a Metal Harbor clone and an original level! And the original level has unnecessary dashpads plastered all over the ground! It's a damn shame, there's some big missed potential with it. It's especially strange considering how hellbent the game is on reusing shit most of the time.
     
  13. Laura

    Laura

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    I understand where you are coming from and I do know what you mean. To my credit I haven't discussed the game in a while because I moved on. I probably won't play it again until the character DLC.

    It just really bugs me how much people are glossing over the flaws of this game, which are in my opinion are extremely clear and demonstrable. Yeah I'm aware no one thinks the game is a flawless holy grail, but when people say it controls amazingly and is a major step forwards from Forces, it's just, seriously?

    And every time I point out these flaws I'm largely met with not much substantive retorts. I do see some genuine retorts like @Aerosol and @Dark Sonic (from the top of my head) but a lot of the time it's just people telling me to stop being a spoilsport, and yeah I get it, but I mean, what I'm saying seems pretty demonstrably clear to me.

    I really do think a lot of people are doing damage control for this game because it has a dark story, is open 3D, and has more attention to detail to characters and worldbuilding. Which is not negative in itself, but it really does confirm my suspicion that these are the main aspects many fans care about when it comes to Sonic and the rest of the game design components are largely glossed.

    And again, I know people will say I'm being judgemental and a meanie but I dunno man, I can't be the only person who feels this way. And if the mods think I'm being too confrontational and aggressive, I'll back off.
     
  14. Overlord

    Overlord

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    If I'm honest I agree with you, it's just every time I say so about 10 people have a go at me for saying so, so I've stopped doing it =P
     
  15. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    @Laura ironically I actually do think this game is a major step forward from Forces, but that’s not saying Frontiers is perfect (and it isn’t but I still had a lot of fun with it personally) that’s more implying Forces was really really boring and not fun to me.

    This game does share some of the same design flaws as Forces, but idk, maybe I felt they put the pieces together better here? Hard to exactly pinpoint but Frontiers just worked for me whereas Forces… not so much.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2022
  16. RDNexus

    RDNexus

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    Despite me thinking Frontiers appears to have taken a step in the right direction...
    There's still a lot for Sonic Team to work on from now on, plot and gameplay-wise.

    Story seems to be decent, but not good enough. Gotta work harder, not darker.
    Gameplay seems a bit sloppy, gotta work on its bad points and better the good ones.
    If speedrunners managed to fully break the game's pacing, gotta mean something.
    OST-wise... Well, it seems it was their most ambitious outing this time around ^^"

    Overall, let us say critics and defendants are going the extra mile when not needed.
    Sonic Team gotta check whatever feedback they may get and pick up from there.
    Either from social media, playthrough vids, game reviews, etc...
     
  17. I've just kind of reached a point where I say what I gotta say and be out. I'm not responsible for how people in response to my feelings about Frontiers, that's entirely on them.

    I'll happily engage with someone who wants to have a conversation, but if your only point is gonna be "STOP DISLIKING WHAT I LIKE" then I'm just gonna bow out and go about my business.

    I'm kind of over the whole Internet back and forth thing, too old.
     
  18. HEDGESMFG

    HEDGESMFG

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    I've spent a lot more time with Frontiers now...

    I have no problems whatsoever with the open world controls. They are different, but perfectly valid and I find most criticism of them to be silly.

    But the cyberspace physics are a mess and have led to multiple unintended deaths right from the start. The way mid-air physics are handled is wonky, weird, and needlessly hard to control (which is partly the fault of the button layout, like Laura says).... which is a shame because I ended up liking the music and stage design itself much more than expected. I may not care for the recycled tropes, but the actual stages are a lot better designed (multiple paths, shortcut, tricks) than I expected for 3D Sonic Stages. So as simple challenge levels they are kind of fun. Or they would be if not for the god awful midair physics that make Sonic easily go in the wrong direction and over ledges with few easy options to recapture your momentum.

    But I agree that some combination about the controls/physics in them are extremely off and this was a needless oversight. I suspect the engine was built for the 3D Overworld first, then adapted for the cyberspace stages second and it all went downhill from there as they tried to rebuild boost gameplay backwards.

    But I love the controls in the overworld, way more than expected, so sorry Laura. I think you're very wrong about the rest.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2022
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  19. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    Have we learned nothing? Opinions can’t be wrong and video games are a very subjective art. One person can like how a game feels and another can hate it and neither is necessarily wrong.

    There is only 1 objective fact here: this soundtrack’s a banger :V /s
     
  20. The Joebro64

    The Joebro64

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    Opinions are like assholes: everyone has one, and most are full of shit.

    There’s only one objective opinion and it’s that Donkey Kong is a better franchise than Sonic, and this forum should become Donkey Kong Retro
     
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