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Sonic Frontiers Thread - PS4, PS5, Xbox, Switch, PC

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by MykonosFan, May 27, 2021.

  1. Sneekie

    Sneekie

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    Of course this place is in flames too.

    "It doesn't deserve to win." It's a goddamn public poll. It deserves however many people decide that it does deserve to win. And in the end, more people thought this other game deserves to win. Such is life.

    It's not even the ACTUAL Game of the Year award, so it's funny to see people act like not winning is an actual condemnation of the game and a validation of their own feelings about it.

    "No, see, it doesn't deserve to win because of the terrain and the Cyber Space and its not actually good, you guys have low standards and"

    And yes, even if it DID win, it doesn't mean it's the best game ever. It'd be nice if it won, but it didn't so oh well.

    And let's be honest, even if it did "deserve it" it still wouldn't be nominated for the real award. Frontiers could be that perfect Sonic game you dreamed of but never actually think would exist, and it would, at best, be nominated for "Best Family Game." Like Mania!

    Xenoblade 3 loses in Music to GOW (and it is an actual travesty that Frontiers didn't even get nominated in this category), GOW gets immediately nominated for everything relevant despite being a last-second entry, and GOW gets nearly every award except for the actual GOTY Award. If you think it's about any "objective" qualities, it's not.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2022
  2. Dark Sonic

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    Frontiers should have been nominated for the soundtrack. That alone was near perfection. I don’t see how this soundtrack was worse than Horizon Forbidden West’s, which was also good but outside of a few tracks largely forgetful.

    Did this game deserve game of the year in any way? Nah probably not, but it was nice seeing it get as far as it did. Now did Genshin Impact deserve it though? Also probably not.

    EDIT: So sounds like GOW swept in everything except game of the year which is rather odd… it wins individually but not as a package? Can’t say I know much of that games soundtrack though.
     
  3. Sneekie

    Sneekie

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    If I were cynical, I'd bet that in a year with heated competition like this, they give one game the auxillary awards and the other game the main award to "satisfy" people. God of War has the better Narrative, Audio, Accessibility, and is generally the better Action-Adventure game but... fuck it, Elden Ring wins!

    I've checked previous award shows and The Last of Us Part II is the only game that got GOTY and also more awards than the other games for the same nomination.

    Of course, I have no clue what the actual process is. It could be easily possible they do think it's better as a whole.
     
  4. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

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    This place is hardly in flames. And could you please not act like it is by picking apart the phrase "doesn't deserve to win"?

    It's a popularity contest at the end of the day. The most popular title gets the prize. I think that Frontiers didn't deserve to win because its not very good, especially not compared to its fellow nominees. People who voted for it however did think it good. That's a simple disagreement and I'm not seeing anyone here starting any fires because of it. I also don't think that Genshin deserved to win, because it's got very different circumstances surrounding it than the other nominees. But again, plenty of people disagreed and voted for it. That's totally okay.

    Did this really need any clarification? No. Any time that someone says "blank didn't deserve to win", it's an opinionated statement declaring that they would have chosen something else. It's not objective.
     
  5. You're projecting a lot of feelings right now.
     
  6. That One Guy Josh

    That One Guy Josh

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    Eeehh... doesn't really matter if Genshin won, to me both games are good in their own rights. I'm just mildly disappointed Genshin had to rely on botting to win.
     
  7. Sneekie

    Sneekie

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    *sigh*

    Anyway,

    Frontiers came up fourth in the November NPD chart.

    [​IMG]

    That's really good (though the gap between Pokemon and Sonic must be fucking BIG). This is a fourth place Sonic can take with pride.

    Also, good on GOW for beating out Pokemon. EDIT: Oh fuck, this list doesn't include digital for Nintendo's games :doge:
     
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  8. Blue Blood

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    Swiftly moving on from the previous discussion because I cba with it either...

    This is a positive result for the game. All signs indicate that it's doing well commercially as far as I can tell, which is good for SEGA and Sonic Team. It's not the critical reaction that they wanted though.

    I'm still incredibly disappointed by Frontiers shortcomings, especially with the perspective that it was such a gargantuan and long effort from Sonic Team. Frontiers feels like sandbox boost (with shallow combat tacked on) and nerfed boost across the Open Zone and Cyberspace respectively. That's not even close to the gameplay evolution that I was hoping for and that the series needed. Plus it was still rushed to completion, which is all too obvious when you look at Rhea, Ouranos and the minigame masquerading as a final boss. I could also pick issue with the fact that the game still uses character models dating back to at least 2008. Despite the change in environmental art style, nothing has been done to modernise the series art direction. It still feels very outdated and unchanged from other recent entries.

    SEGA allowed this game to have an exceptionally long development time, so I hope that the executives are satisfied with the return on that investment. If they are, then with any luck they'll permit Sonic Team to longer development cycles moving forwards and can find other ways of plugging the gaps between release dates for major new games. We've had Origins and Colours Ultimate since Frontiers was first teased 18 months ago. I think that they should continue focus on similar re-releases and side-games that are largely developed outside of Sonic Team.

    Much of the time developing Frontiers was reportedly spent on experimentation before the project really started to take shape, according to both Iizuka and Kishimoto. That concerns me because Frontiers suggests that they didn't learn very much about making a big and robust Sonic game in that time. The end result has several mechanics that don't mesh together very well and the exact same design crutches that have grown on the series like a cancer since SA1 in 1998. Kishimoto has been very open about taken feedback on board, treating the release like a "global play test" of sorts and even responded positively to that fan on Twitter talking about momentum and rolling. That's all well and good, but if he and the team didn't learn anything in the five years that Frontiers was in development for, why would that change now? I want to have some kind of faith, but I can't.

    So my pessimistic arse here is saying it'll be bad no matter the outcome. If SEGA want mote Sonic games out more often, then there's no hope of them improving. But also if Frontiers managed to miss the mark yet again after so long and with so much considered effort this time, why should I expect that to change?
     
  9. Dark Sonic

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    I still stand by liking this game, even if it has some jank. Will the next game be better? Who knows, but more sales = more reinvestment, and that’s likely a good thing.

    They spent a lot of time experimenting and ran out of time. They are adding new content though that might flesh out some of the lacking parts. I’m hoping for an Unleashed > Generations type scenario, where this game leads to refinements and an overall better game the next time. Is it guaranteed? No, but I still think this was the best 3D Sonic since Generation so I have some hope again.

    And tolerating mediocrity and hoping for something better is what being a Sonic fan is all about! :eng99:
     
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  10. Blue Blood

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    I have multiple unhelpful responses to this.
    1. Unleashed is better than Generations, even if Generations is more refined.
    2. Unleashed and Generations are both better than Frontiers.
    3. Unleashed and Generations are the only two new Sonic games from Sonic Team since 06 that Kishimoto didn't direct.
    4. Unleashed radically revolutionised the series core gameplay. Frontiers meanwhile just breaks up the same gameplay into bitesize pieces and spreads them across an empty field. In fact, I'd still argue that the moment you you get to the open world platforming or Cyberspace, Frontiers basically turns into Colours/Forces.
    tldr; stop looking things that I don't like:thumbsup:
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2022
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  11. synchronizer

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    One note EDM doesn’t really count in my book.

    Here for example, there’s barely melody at all. No real development. Not even much more than one part or loop.
    There are maybe a couple exceptions in the soundtrack.

    Compared with obviously-starlight zone


    or even Windmill Isle day, which has multiple key changes.

    If you don’t know where I’m coming from, I suggest checking-out Rick Beato, among others.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2022
  12. Dark Sonic

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    Never :V
     
  13. Vertette

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    Sonic games aren't even good, I dunno how you could like them.

    I'm not a musician or composer or whatever but I think the cyberspace tracks are catchy. I dunno. I'm a simple man.
     
  14. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    You sure you’re in the right place lol
     
  15. That One Guy Josh

    That One Guy Josh

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    For me the cyberspace songs neither smell nor stink. They're just... there.
     
  16. The Joebro64

    The Joebro64

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    As a huge boost apologist I absolutely love the Cyber Space levels. I’m having a blast revisiting and speedrunning them.
     
  17. All you need is a little blind faith and an ideal :)
     
  18. Snub-n0zeMunkey

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    Cyberspace tracks are a blend of EDM/Drum & Bass/Jungle/Breakcore. FWIW, these genres do have melodies, it's just a very different type of melody than what you're accustomed to. To say that they aren't melodic is selling them short and I feel like you're probably just not familiar with this type of music.

    If it's not your thing that's fine but Sonic soundtracks have experimented with these genres many times in the past and I'm glad to hear it again. It's a cool style and I like it a lot. To say that it's "unfitting" for Sonic is a bit ridiculous I think.



    Sonic soundtracks can be any genre.

    Also, I'm not hearing any key changes in Windmill Isle Day? as far as I'm aware the song is in Fmaj but I could be wrong.
     
  19. synchronizer

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    I’m not sure it came across that I’m not criticizing the electronic sound, but rather the oversimplicity of the compositions.

    The best Sonic soundtracks tend to have a lot of cross-genre variety. Frontiers doesn’t really capture that.

    Also, I’m aware of these genres. I didn’t enjoy Shadow or Riders. Sonic Advance using an electronic-inspired track for a “techno base” is fitting. Frontiers uses this music for almost everything.

    Also, techno base is still better as a track.

    I’m also aware of Jungle Joyride day. That one incorporates ethnic instruments to make it more interesting, however.

    Note: I can get more behind this if we’re thinking in terms of “cyberspace” requiring only this type of music, but there are still TONS of ways of introducing variation.

    This parallels the lack of variety in the visuals. I hope it doesn’t become the norm. Sonic Unleashed and Generations had a far better balance in musical styles.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2022
  20. Bluebobo

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    My takeaway from Frontiers is that it is a very experimental game, even more so than previous games and their mechanics that many find uncalled for.
    The environment design and art design is very different from your usual sonic game, story too, everything about this game is overtly moody and somber. And i think it's safe to assume this won't carry over in future projects. Like i doubt back to back Super Sonic boss fights are gonna be a staple.
    I think it's very fair when someone has issues with this game's art design and just straight up hates it, that's completely understandable.
    But to frame it as some sort of game design failure, as if they failed to reinvent the series... I just disagree, i don't think that was the point.
    I might be proven wrong in the future, but i think it's safe to assume MANY elements of frontiers are unique to frontiers, the game might set the foundation of future projects, like Iizuka and team seem to be planning to do something with adventure franchise again, however i don't think they'd necessarily go back to doing whatever frontiers was doing.
    Frontiers has a lot to fix, a lot to improve, and a lot to add, and however ST plans to deliver on that is remains to be seen, but i assume that if ST decides to build up on what frontiers sets up, Frontiers will go on to be a very important and unique game in this franchise that at most will age very badly when people who love it later come back to it.

    PS: I also wanna add i have no idea Kishimoto's game design philosophy is, it is very confusing, i have no idea how to feel about it, i can't say it's *bad*, cause i with many folk enjoyed many elements of frontiers. He seems to be mostly concerned about accessibility, Entirety of Forces was designed around the very approachable nature of the game, where if you haven't even touched a sonic game, you won't feel overwhelmed, which its results did not sit well with more passionate sonic fans.
    But also many game design choices in frontiers seem to reflect that. Final boss being exclusive to hard mode, simplified combat, and most importantly, optimizable sonic physics and controls.
    A lot of folk seem to have a problem with this idea and interpret it as "Sonic team" cutting corners, but i just don't think so, it's a mechanic implemented in the game and the game encourages you to use it. And even if it was cutting corner, i see it as a very great idea.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2022