Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by MykonosFan, May 27, 2021.
....this is a kid friendly franchise though...
So do I. I think that exploring a weird alien world is fun. I like how ridiculous the Super Sonic moments are in contrast. With better writing and presentation, the emotional payoff and power trip of these moments could have been really excellent.
I don't find the "moodiness" of the location to be the same thing as "depressing". I don't know, it's the same reason why sad people like listening to sad songs.
I do really like how the boss song sound, being a fan of both post-hardcore and metalcore, I just wish they were attached to bosses more emotionally resonant.
Like, the most promising thing about these boss songs is that we might get more like them in a future game where the boss actually is a character with enough plot importance and focus to really justify how intensely emotional these pieces are. And that makes me really excited. I've shat on this game so much pre-release but frankly if this is the direction they're going then god yes. Please give me all the post-hxc/mxc songs @w@ and get some dudes like If I Were You, Until I Wake, Periphery, Youth Fountain...god the possibilities are endless. They had fuckin' Sleeping With Sirens' singer on this soundtrack!!! Hell yes, Sonic music is BACK
Vandalize music video.
Please read and stop reducing everyone's points down to strawmen. I said it was kid-friendly in the post, and it's using all the overused tropes that failed kids media use and get criticized for. Moreover, even when I was a kid I found those tropes to be annoying; kids don't always just thoughtlessly consume media, they are also critical of these things. So I don't see your point
I was kinda hoping Periphery was hidden somewhere in there....What Misha did with Halo 2 was awesome...
I did read your post, so can you stop the needlessly combative attitude?
All I was saying is that there's nothing wrong with a kids series using tropes that are in fact for kids. If that was all the series did, I'd understand but Sonic generally does put a token effort in fleshing out its writing most of the time.
The criticism is that the kids trope isn't good just because it targets kids. Kids aren't 1-dimensional and are actually critical of media, they don't just eat up tropes that reduce characters to a gag or a mirror image of a character from another series. That's the entire criticism. Sure a lot of kids do, but it's kind of dependent on age and Sonic often targets an older demographic of kids that is more aware/critical of corny tropes and flat characters. So I just don't see the point.
My point is that the use of kids tropes is not, in of itself, bad as you are saying.
And even so, there's no empherical evidence here either. Yea, there probably are kids who think critically about the media they consume. But there are also kids that just like something for its simplicity too.
I feel like whenever these conversations happen, people are projecting what they liked as kids onto other children.
I literally work in a school with children, and some of them do just like something because its cool or cute or funny.
Never said the use of kids tropes was bad, I said they are kids tropes and that the trope is bad, the use of "kids" doesn't mean it's bad, you put those words in my mouth. So maybe there's your problem, you're arguing a point that was never made. That's why I said what I said about reading and not being reductive, your reply was so fast and so brief it felt like it didn't even digest the point.
The logic doesn't track whatsoever anyway, "this kids tropes can't be improved or expanded upon because it's for kids" makes no sense as soon as you consider that other franchises are more popular among kids and have more involved stories and less tropey writing.
Also, for petes sake, you frame 1 replied with a 10-word post as if you're just waiting for people to have opinions and be contrarian, it's just not constructive. I've sang so much praise for this game but I cant take grievance with the writing because somebody who works with kids said kids LOVE it, plus some other words put into my mouth. Man, sometimes this fanbase is so negative.
Edit: I also don't want this to be some kind of argument so I am not replying further.
I was reading the Fandom wiki page for the Chaos Emeralds, it says the Master Emerald was created after the gods witnessed their misuse on West Side Island, however, Sonic Frontiers implies the Master Emerald was here before that.
Am I missing something or is that just a plot hole?
It was funny how '06 was widely criticized for having no rail physics and then Unleashed and all subsequent games continued the trend and suddenly it became OK. I wish we could go back.
That sounds exactly like one of those fake 4chan leaks that was floating around prior to us knowing anything about the game.
"Westside Island folk misusing the emeralds and the gods sealing them away" is from the Sonic 2 manual.
The "gods created the Master Emerald to balance the C.Es" bit isn't sourced on the current page weirdly, but looking through the edit history points it as originating from the codex in Sonic Chronicles. (Though not all of it, wiki seems to have made up the connection of "gods create M.E. as a direct follow-up to sealing away C.Es from Westside misuse" as far as I can tell.)
Sonic Chronicles (and all the stuff it introduces/reveals about existing things) is not apart of the series canon anymore, so Frontiers overwriting that isn't a big deal.
Curious. The HedgeModManager now has support for removing the frame rate limiter on all cutscenes that aren't pre-rendered, and you can now completely tell what scenes are the low-effort talking heads ones and which are proper plot / main scenes. The primary story scenes that aren't flashbacks or Eggman side things (being pre-rendered apparently) were animated at 30 FPS, though the limiter off means effects play at 60 which can be a little jarring, but everything else? Vault opens, entering and exiting Cyber Space, Side Story scenes, etc., all of them seem to be consistently animated at 60 FPS.
This even includes Sonic's minigame victory dances. Killed all the Guardians on Kronos before I could test Guardian scenes like Asura's, though, and I guess I get to see if Titan fights were animated at 30 FPS or not too. But this really tells me that despite 30 being the game's target, they still smoothly animated so many smaller and incidental scenes and held back on the plot ones.
Sonic fans going all defensive "omg its just made by 60 people", and lol that's not even a problem.
Colors, Gens, Lost World, Forces all had 60 people. But also Mario Oddysey just had 60, across the same dev period as Forces and Frontiers.
It's clear that Sonic Team just had time to fumble around for 5 years, and we got a good game out of it. Few years more and I think a really great game is within reach lol
Altough I admit making about 9 versions with just one team sounds tough. We all know how Mighty No. 9 went with 10 SKU's
Do you have a source on the oddessy number? Because this is a first I'm hearing of this. Also odyssey isn't a huge open world game it's made very much in the style of Mario 64 with worlds that are relatively small in size but packed in detail.
Sonic Team wanted to make a big game with an epic scope with multiple boost levels, a finishing mini game, combat, giant boss battles-, arcade type mini games, a connected narrative, and with a character who can run through an open world map quickly.
I'm not saying oddessey isn't ambitious but it's scope is far smaller.
BOTW had 300 people in its staff at its peak. It needed every single one given the ambition of the project with the size of the maps, the shrines, the weapon system, each tower having a unique way you need to conquer it, and the multitude of side quests.
That's the type of game they were going for. Not Odyssey which is matured form of something they could pull off on the N64. They were going for a big open world game with a huge scope in terms of features. That requires a larger team.
Saying they don't need more people because a game that is nothing like it didn't need one is a logical fallacy. I honestly believe with a bigger team they'll be able to have teams dedicated to making each of the core ideas the game focuses on to make sure each are utilized the best they can.
I just hope SEGA does that for them.
How can you honestly say Mario Odyssey had a smaller scope than Sonic Frontiers??? Laughable claim. Mario Odyssey had large "open zone" levels, way more than Sonic Frontiers" 5, all with h unique themes. Mario Odyssey also had better rolling physics.
Okay so I beat the crap out of Gigantos just now with the cutscene frame limit gone, and.. the entire battle, and even Sonic's prelude intro into the fight, ran at 60 FPS all the way through. Like, why is the game not like this by default? The engine, the scenes, the gameplay can all handle it, but they arbitrarily capped it at 30 frames for every individual little scene.. because the big cutscenes were animated at that? Agh.
I'm counting core staff in the same sense they seemingly did with Frontiers, when they said 60 people. Aka just in-house staff, no outsource companies. Doing the same thing with Breath of the Wild, I counted 100 people.
That's intentional on Sonic, baffling as it might be.
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