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Sonic Frontiers Thread - PS4, PS5, Xbox, Switch, PC

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by MykonosFan, May 27, 2021.

  1. Shaddy the guy

    Shaddy the guy

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    Just because us hardcore fans are being strung along does not mean the game has been presented well. We were going to be chomping at the bit for any information we could get no matter what, but a well-edited trailer showing off the environments of two or three islands, some combat, this cyber level and the story bits we've seen would do WAY more to give this game actual hype than the drip-feed has.

    I mean, maybe. I guess Forces sold really well despite doing basically the same shit.
     
  2. Gestalt

    Gestalt

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    And all thanks to the Nintendo Direct narrator. Thank you, Mr. Narrator.

    "Spin dash into a new zone!"

    It's still ringing in my ears.
     
  3. MH MD

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    i agree that i don't think those zelda games were really open world, not like botw, but just for the sake of discussion

    and yes Mania is a direct successor to classic games, but i can't deny there is a large percentage of people that consider it s side game or even a "fan-game" cause who worked behind it, which i don't agree, cause those were professionals who worked on a product in a professional way that not any fan-game were worked on like that

    and not like "Sonic Team" has the same people across all games working on it, so at some point thee distinctions become silly
     
  4. lupinsmask

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    The not-CityEscape/SpeedHighway/SkyscrapperScamper city stage is looking a bit better but still not impressed. If the open zone grind rails were connected to the rest of the areas visually and physically instead of mostly being placed far off and obviously not part of the rest of the ruins maybe I'd like it.

    I'd like to have hope that the re-used Gens cyberspace stages are only on kronos island considering that greek lore mentioned here but I'm not the optimistic type.

    The combat is an improvement but not enough for a pre-order/day 1 purchase.
     
  5. Josh

    Josh

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    I need to dig up the source on this, but I've read that Iizuka was significantly more directly involved with Mania's development than he was Forces'. He also pitched it as a direct successor to the 16-bit games; There's a story of him writing Sonic 1, Sonic CD, Sonic 2, and Sonic 3 on a whiteboard, and then finishing the list with the name "Sonic Mania," which was the first time the dev team heard the name. Based on all that, plus the way the game was marketed (the elevator putting it with the other four), I'm more than convinced that it's a sequel to them, making it part of the mainline Sonic series.

    Frontiers continues looking nice, and I can't wait to see what it's about for myself! Thinking I'm gonna have to cut myself off and go on my media embargo soon. I'd love to avoid seeing videos, but Twitter's making that impossible.
     
  6. Starduster

    Starduster

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    Art...always art...

    Sonic Mania pitch anecdote begins at 14:00, straight from the Taxman's mouth.
     
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  7. Zephyr

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    See, that's all fine and good. But it would still be factually incorrect to say "only the first four Sonic games are 2D". Just as it would be factually incorrect to say "only the first Zelda game is open world". I know DefinitiveDubs was making a more broad point about "the essence of Zelda games" and all that, but I was responding specifically to the bolded part of your quote about "only the first Zelda game being open world". Their point is still wrong, given that only a few Zelda games have been open world (and not even all of the ones I mentioned are, either). But you don't need to pretend that "side" games (whatever criteria is used to determine what makes a game a "side" game) don't count as 'Zelda games' in order to successfully argue that point.
     
  8. Laura

    Laura

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    So on this recent video.

    The city level looks good. There seems to be branching paths and the level design for this section looks original.

    But the boss fight at the beginning looks so janky. Honestly it's unacceptable for an action game. Goddamn. It's just so awkward. Sonic floats still while doing the first huge flashy attack then just stays still in the air holding the same pose after its finished. When the enemy starts getting knocked about in the arena it doesn't animate at all and just holds a static pose and pings about wildly across the stage. When Sonic is fighting enemies generally there is no push back. I've known about that and it's bad. But this footage just makes everything look so much worse.

    I really don't understand how anyone can look at that boss fight and think it's remotely acceptable.
     
  9. Zephyr

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    Bah with your valid criticism, that's just malding for the sake of malding!

    Being serious, though, I sorta agree. The main thing that's still bugging me about the combat is that move that completely snaps the camera to somewhere else. That said, I really dug Sonic pinballing around the boss arena. It gave me, dare I say, Sonic vibes!
     
  10. Trippled

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    i get so many secret rings vibes from frontiers just executed a ton better - 06 teaser vibers too.

    it feels like kishimotos magnum opus. a lot of emphasis on leveling up and customizing sonic and repeating levels. just good and fun however. cyberspace level are likely better when you are able to go really fast.
     
  11. Patrolman

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    I think it looks cool
     
  12. Starduster

    Starduster

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    Art...always art...
    Yeah, while the presentation is jank, the boss looks mechanically engaging and entertaining. It could certainly look better, but I'm honestly just tired of being negative about Sonic, so I'm not generally gonna fixate on this kind of stuff unless I have anything interesting to say about it.
     
  13. The most recent Dragon Ball movie that just came out is currently the best selling in spite of the poor advertising surrounding it.

    Sometimes brand power supercedes all.
     
  14. DefinitiveDubs

    DefinitiveDubs

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    Ok, I don't know why we're still talking about Zelda in the Sonic Frontiers thread 4 pages after I casually mentioned it in relation to Sonic, but I define open world as "not a linear level-based structured game". That's how wikipedia defines it. Zelda games usually let you explore the vast majority of its world even if you eventually have to go to the next dungeon. It's open world because you're not merely conquering obstacles to meet an objective, you're exploring this big open area and being rewarded for exploring and finding hidden secrets. That's what open world meant 20 years ago, but I realize that in modern times, open world means that the entire game takes place IN that world, and Zelda overworlds are now just considered a "hub" for the different dungeons.

    The more important part of what I said was that Zelda games have ALWAYS been marketed and hyped for them having a bigass overworld to explore. Ocarina was lauded for Hyrule Fields feeling vast and exciting at the time. Wind Waker had the great sea and how it felt so adventurous and epic to sail on it. Twilight Princess had its big open areas with drawbridges and fighting enemies on horseback that people went crazy for. Skyward Sword had the sky, and so on. Skyward Sword was heavily criticized for how linear and structured it was, and how exploration really wasn't that present outside of the sky (and even that was debatable), which people felt went against Zelda's core appeal. So they went to the far opposite end of the spectrum for Breath, and...well, it worked out for them.

    Sonic, on the other hand, has never done the open-world thing. Not really, anyway. SA1/06's hubs are too small and devoid of exploration to really count as anything other than simply a hub for the levels, and most players think of them as padding that gets in the way of SONIC'S core appeal, which is its linear, level-based structured gameplay. So yes, it's fair for players to think that the open world is getting in the way of classic Sonic gameplay. Frontiers is the way it is not because an open world improves Sonic's gameplay, but because Sonic Team wants to chase trends, and pad these games out to where they're not 10 hours long, while also having that padding be enjoyable in contrast to previous games.
    I agree. It looks really janky, Sonic snaps to different locations to attack and betrays the camera at times. The way the camera shakes at 0:35 makes me think the game is seconds away from breaking. It doesn't even look like there's any real strategy, you're just spamming the same automated cutscene attacks over and over. Like it was just made to look cool in the trailers.

    In fact, it reminds me of Fist of the North Star: Lost Paradise (another Sega game, imagine that). Hokuto Shinken techniques look awesome in trailers, but once you actually play it and realize you're having to watch the same unskippable cutscene over and over with minimal input every single time you decide to kill an enemy with one, it gets real boring after the first 3 hours.
     
  15. MrMechanic

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    So this shouldn't surprise anyone, and... yeah I'd probably also put in a very 'generous' hit box for these but...

    https://twitter.com/DaveLuty/status/1564622917111058432

    This isn't exactly the 'non automated' total freedom experience people think it is. It's looking better than Forces, but it's nowhere near the levels of control and freedom we saw in the early 3D games.
     
  16. Starduster

    Starduster

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    Honestly I don't hate this example in particular, given that missing that ring could result in what would feel like an unfair death.
     
  17. MrMechanic

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    Well like I said, I'd probably design the rings to function like that too if I knew they were going to be placed in segments like that... for a Sonic game.

    But... theres so many people out there who are under the impression the automated gameplay is gone when... it's really not, it's still here and there's still quite a lot of it. Like in the new city stage, immediately after that loop, the 'best' path, is 90% automated rails.
     
  18. netscapenow

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    City level looks really nice with a decent amount of paths to take (from what we can see in the video at least). It's probably a minute long like all the others but it seems a lot more substantial than everything else, maybe there's one or two "full" cyberspace levels per island with the rest being the reused/short 2D ones? Probably just hopium on my part but it'd make sense.
    One thing I've noticed in the levels is the utter abundance of dash rings, I get they've been in every 3D Sonic since Heroes but it seems a bit overkill here. I'd appreciate if they at least did the Shadow '05 thing of theming them to the environment so you weren't just seeing the same orange and pink circles everywhere :V
     
  19. Kyro

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    While i agree we arent looking at a total return to form of removed automation...

    I think this is one of the dumbest examples you could use to bring that up. The ring is there regardless of its actual hitbox size, hell it could even just be a hurtbox around sonic instead of the ring having a large activation area, but either way, this doesnt signal anything to me, and it shouldnt. A lot of these rings so far have been put over pits, it would suck to barely miss a ring and die for it.

    Hell i've actually disliked quite a few proper boost games controls for that very reason, since sonic is so slow to turn, correcting your angle is also slow as he tries to turn in midair to align with things, which makes airboosting in specific lines tricky if you arent prepared in advance
     
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  20. Shaddy the guy

    Shaddy the guy

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    Rails are one thing, but in a game series like Sonic, they actually should've been making the hitboxes on things bigger in 3D for the past two decades. Only in this game and frigging Rise of Lyric (where he doesn't actually need it) does Sonic naturally attract rings slightly, which he should've always done in 3D. If precision is difficult, make the world require less of it to compensate.