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Sonic Frontiers Thread - PS4, PS5, Xbox, Switch, PC

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by MykonosFan, May 27, 2021.

  1. Snowbound

    Snowbound

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    Folks need to learn to respect others opinions and not write them off as insincere. If someone is excited for Frontiers and you’re not; either have a civil conversation to understand their point of view or let them be. Similarly if someone isn’t impressed with what they see, don’t accuse them of secretly wanting Sonic to fail.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2022
  2. Blue Spikeball

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    Wait, every time you people see something described as "dark" or "darker" you read it as "on the level of Netflix's Daredevil" or "not for kids"? There is such a thing as a middle point, something isn't necessarily completely light and kiddy, or all dark and mature. Plenty of series for kids are known for having dark installments or moments while still falling within the confines of kid-friendliness. For instance, a number of Zelda games are famous for being darker, and Majora's Mask was specifically described as such by Nintendo. Harry Potter was deliberately written to get darker with each installment despite being a children's book.

    Obviously SA1 is an E-rated game with nothing too shocking or mature. I don't think I've ever seen a Sonic game described as dark as in "not apt for kids".
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2022
  3. Mana

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    There's literally an arc in that series where one of the main characters tricks another main character into fusing, which is an analogy for sex, and deals with the feelings of distrust, being used, and trauma that tricking someone into sex can bring about.

    Then they also showed the healing and forgiving process in heavy detail. Yeah the show can go to some really intense places.
     
  4. Shaddy the guy

    Shaddy the guy

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    Listen. I think the game looks alright. I also thought Forces looked alright, and when I played it...it was. I understand what it means to be upset by people not seeing what you see in a game. But that's not what the issue is here. People aren't hating on the game for the sake of it, it's because there were things they wanted, things I wanted, that we're not seeing. If a Sonic game doesn't offer the things you want, but you still call yourself a Sonic fan, it makes total sense to voice those criticisms.

    This is, itself, a huge accusation towards other members of this community and I am not here for it. People who are upset with this game do not want Sonic to fail. They want the game to be good, they want it to give them the experiences they think are good, they criticize it because they can tell from pre-release that it's already not appealing to them, and that's an extra several years they have to wait before they can try again. It's perfectly fair to be frustrated with this and I think making the leap in logic to say that they're being unreasonable for it is pretty unwise given how long it's been since some people got a Sonic game that they liked. As much as I make fun of people who say "that's it I'm leaving Sonic fandom" every two years, we can't rightly demand that people who don't like New Thing simple leave a community they've been a part of for decades.

    Forces was not any more "hidden" than Frontiers has been. They were not, and are not "ashamed" of their games. You're treating Forces exactly like other people are going to have treated Frontiers.

    Nobody wants the game to be bad. The fact that you even have to pretend people for some reason want the series they spend all their time talking about to be shit really exemplifies just what a poor line of defense you're making for the game.

    Oh, so they're technically allowed to not like the game, just not without being accused of hating the game on purpose for no reason. Much better.

    What use is other people not being familiar with a reused design to a longtime fan of the series?

    But that doesn't mean you have to tear down people who aren't in that mindset, which is what you were doing.

    This is not a fair assessment of the show. Fusion is not "an allegory for sex", the creators have clarified this multiple times. This line of reasoning only appeals to weird youtube dudebros who want to call the gay kids show "degenerate filth" because Steven fuses with his Dad in the movie or whatever. It's a connection, a relationship between people, platonic or otherwise. A character taking advantage of another does not suddenly need to be about sexual abuse.
     
  5. Laura

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    So? If Sonic Frontiers wants to be taken seriously then its combat needs to be as good as the competition and I'd say Nier Automata is a good gold standard for what I'd expect combat to feel like. If Sonic Team have no way of delivering on that level of quality then they shouldn't make combat a key pillar of the game.
     
  6. Mana

    Mana

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    1. I never said anyone in this paticular community, I said online in general. I post on several sites.

    2. https://www.destructoid.com/sega-wont-be-sending-out-sonic-forces-review-codes-before-release/

    They did try and hide Forces. This is what you do when you're trying to hide a game, not do several early press and public demos.

    3. I love Steven Universe and I wasn't the only person with this take.

    https://www.syfy.com/syfy-wire/steven-universe-and-the-importance-of-consent

    And I used it as an example of how the show can go to serious and dark places. I wasn't bringing it up in a negative way at all. For you to quote this on top of everything else is making me feel like you're just ready to disagree with anything I'm saying.

    Look, talk about the game however you want. I don't care anymore.
     
  7. Shaddy the guy

    Shaddy the guy

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    I can't imagine the other people you're upset at are necessarily any more unfair in their critiques. If you were talking about them, perhaps the vague message about "some people online" should have gone to those people, not here.
    This is not a great argument. There are any number of reasons this decision could've been made, and "they are ashamed of the game they know its bad" doesn't really fit with said game selling well, reviewing about the same as the previous main game, and them clearly not bothering to do anything different for the action stage design in the next game after that.
    Okay? Some article that agrees with you does not really defer me here. If a person chooses to read it as a specific way relative to one episode that's not necessarily bad, but by-and-large "fusion is sex" is an incorrect judgement, and claiming that it means it is objectively about rape to bolster the argument that the show is darker than it is is a poor decision.
    Yet another weird accusation on your part. I responded to this assertion on your part because acting like fusion is intended as an allegory for sex is a misinterpretation with a lot of questionable implications, often cited in bad-faith by reactionary youtube grifters. Am I supposed to point at this thing and say the message is "fucking dogs makes you stronger"? No, because fusion is not sex. If you had a less-terrible opinion than this one, I wouldn't have bothered responding.
     
  8. Boy, it sure would be nice if we could talk about video games online without people's feelings getting hurt. People gotta stop getting so emotionally attached to these games and disregarding any constructive criticism as "being a hater". It's called constructive criticism, it's said with the intention to help better the product in question. Ignoring that and assuming bad faith because their words are not negative is choosing to disregard another's words because now your feelings are hurt because someone doesn't like the latest Sonic game as much as you. To be blunt, it is the epitome of childishness.

    On the flipside, other people have become so jaded and bitter about this series that they seem to take joy in putting down people who are *gasp* actually excited to play a video game? God forbid people actually like something that you don't care for. Look, as a somewhat jaded almost 30 year old myself, I get it. I really do, feeling like the time you've invested in something has gone to waste is one of the worst feelings in the world for anyone, and bitterness is a natural reaction. But maybe, just maybe, you can stay just enough out of that bitterness to keep the perspective of that not everyone has become as jaded as you. Some people are just fine with Sonic as it is now, and that's fine. No, you being older does not mean you can just talk down to "those damn kids" because the crazy thing? Hey, we were all of "those damn kids" at one point too. Jeez man, there's no reason nobody here can't just have a civil conversation about this franchise even if they disagree on a few points. We just talk past each other cuz feelings start getting involved.


    I personally think Frontiers looks "alright"; it is not my ideal on what I feel a Sonic game should be doing, and I do think it misses the mark on a lot of things, but I also don't think there's anything really wrong with it either aside from not really meeting my specific standards. But guess, who fucking cares what I think? If you think Frontiers looks awesome, go crazy. If you don't? That's alright too. Not everyone who doesn't like Frontiers are "jaded haters who hate fun" and not everyone who likes Frontiers are "dumb manbabies with no taste" There's levels to this people.
     
  9. Mana

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    They didn't send out review copies for Sonic Boom either. When companies don't send out review copies it's because they don't have faith in the game. They have enough faith in this game to do several press previews and demos. Are you really saying there was ANY other reason for Forces not getting early review copies, when Mania that same year did, other than fear of negative reviews (which it recieved)?

    You didn't even read the article I posted about SU either. Garnett considers fusion to be an expression of passion, which if Fusions can be interpreted in multiple ways of relationships as you state, this one can be sexual. That's why Garnett literally felt assualted and taken advantage of. Why else would she?

    Whatever man. Feel how you want about the game, I have nothing else to say to you.
     
  10. MykonosFan

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    Folks, we've got brand spankin' new footage of Sonic Frontiers. if we could discuss it civilly and keep this topic about the game and not Steven Universe, that'd be dandy.
     
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  11. Plorpus

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    I would argue that Steven Universe and Sonic are actually really similar in that I would rather put my arm in a wood chipper than read most of both of their fan bases’ posts online
     
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  12. JaxTH

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    Jack shit.
    Anybody pre-order the game yet?
     
  13. Crasher

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    I don't disagree that they shouldn't make combat a key pillar of the game if they can't make it good. However, the combat isn't worse than it's competition. Otherwise we would've seen a lot more people shitting on it: the only journalist who's had an issue with it is someone who literally refused to engage with it. I think the fact that we haven't seen a large-scale, visceral reaction against the game now that the public's played it is also a good indication that the combat isn't bad, but has a presentation issue.

    A presentation issue that's common throughout all of Kishimoto's games.

    I'd also argue that the two games have entirely different combat systems but I digress :V
     
  14. Starduster

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    Follow-up to what MrMechanic was saying earlier: I’ll also be heading to EGX (different day than him though) and I’ll have a friend with me who I’m sure wouldn’t mind recording me playing Frontiers. With that in mind, if there’s anything in particular you want to know about or see, let me know with a tag and I’ll keep it in mind as I go in.

    Anyway, nice to see Eggman actually acting like a scientist here. Given his “don’t tell anyone that” line, his ego is clearly very much intact, but we all know that Ian really loves giving Eggman teeth as a villain, so I can’t wait to hear Mike deliver these lines.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2022
  15. Linkabel

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    I'm curious how the drift works in this game so if you're able to check that out I would appreciate it.
     
  16. Laura

    Laura

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    I mean I agree with you that it looks slightly above average. It has a dodge system which looks fairly well made, there are multiple different moves. But yeah the presentation is bad, which I think is important for a combat system. Also, this is hard to qualify without playing it, but it comes across as quite floaty to me. Like there doesn't seem to be much impact and pushback when Sonic hits enemies. He kind of just floats near them and hits in midair and they kind of stand there.

    This is my problem though, if it's only slightly engaging I don't really think thats good enough.

    And I think it is kind of comparable to Nier Automata? At least the melee combat. In terms of it looks like dodging and attacking are fundamental moves in the arsenal.
     
  17. Vertette

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    I wanted to talk more about Cyberspace levels before but then I saw how many of them were recycled bits from previous games and I got sad. I was able even to accept we'd probably only get two new level themes as long as the levels were good. Granted, they are because they got recycled from older games with good levels, but that's some monkey paw BS right there.

    It's a shame because I really like how this game is shaping up, I actually like how the combat and controls and open world look, and the cutscenes finally look and feel engaging again which is something I've wanted for ages. The Cyberspace levels feel like such an afterthought in comparison.
     
  18. SuperSnoopy

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    We haven’t seen any drifting yet but going by the control scheme posted a few pages back, drifting will be done using the left stick on predetermined parts of the level, ala Forces.
    They specifically mentioned "drift panels" or something of the sort, so it’ll probably be more intuitive than your oc randomly starting to drift with no warning like in Forces at least.
     
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  19. Crasher

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    I disagree - they're comparable on a surface level, but pretty different in approach.

    Nier's combat focuses on heavy/light attacks, with special moves only available on a cooldown. There's variety found in how you string together moves (you have different combo strings based on holding down light/heavy, as well as what order the attacks are used in), alongside stuff like dash attacks that allow you to weave around the battlefield. Alongside that, you have 4 different weapon types, with two weapon sets that can be swapped out - all of which can be woven together during combat. Your main approach to combat is mostly dodging and counterattacking - so the typical flow is to perfect dodge attacks and string into a combo. The fun part is attacking the enemy, weaving together a cool combo, and keeping it going.

    In contrast, Sonic Frontiers looks more like a standard beat-em-up, with one button dedicated to attacking, with one combo string available and some special moves that are unlockable. While there's some emphasis on dodging etc., the meat of the combat seems to be using all of your abilities (cyloop, homing attack, dashing, dodging, and parrying) to open up opportunities to use one of your specials. There's a lesser focus on stringing together moves to make a stylish combo, and more on creative use of Sonic's abilities. In other words, the fun part isn't attacking the enemy, it's figuring out how to attack the enemy.

    I'd personally liken it to Breath of the Wild, as tired as the comparison is, because each enemy encounter there felt like an opportunity to experiment with the game's systems. Like how here, each enemy encounter is an opportunity to experiment with Sonic's abilities.

    Edit: For the record, I do agree with your others parts of your post. Frontiers has some obvious jank, and I hope to god they fix it by the time launch comes around.

    I also think a Sonic game with Platinum-like combat would be pretty cool! It fits the character well and you could have some fun with different move-sets - the hardest part would be tying it all together.
     
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  20. Shaddy the guy

    Shaddy the guy

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    One thing I've noticed in some of the tutorial practice screens is that they call for Sonic to do very specific air acrobatics, like boosting out of a double jump into a wall-run. It makes me wonder if perhaps there is more complex platforming at some point in the game.