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Sonic Frontiers Thread - PS4, PS5, Xbox, Switch, PC

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by MykonosFan, May 27, 2021.

  1. qwertysonic


    creating the biggest sonic collection
    You can't "go backwards" in Frontiers either. The only difference is that the level design is wide enough to give you space to turn around. The controls are the same as boost games, it's just the level design that's different.
  2. Kyro


    From everything ive seen, the controls in particular DO seem much more fluid and loose than the boost games. What grabbed me in particular is the gamespot footage where sonic was able to turn smoothely even while boosting. I do think its fair to sed hes going to be much less tank like than in the actual boost games
  3. RDNexus


    Dear Goodness... What have I just seen?
    Such a concept, more properly developed, could become amazing in its own way ^^"
  4. You clearly can in Frontiers. Opening up the levels is massive change form the previous Sonic games and the game is more like a Mario odyssey style game, giving the player far mode freedom in where they can go and in what order they can take on enemies or puzzels. Hopefully, it will work out, just like it did for Halo Infinite

    Looking forward to more coverage in GamesCom
  5. Last edited: Aug 22, 2022
  6. Antheraea


    Bug Hunter Member
    I can do you one better, those biomes were considered tropes two decades ago by other dev teams.

    Do you know why the levels in Metroid Prime 2 are how they are? (Mountainous -> Plains -> Bog -> Tech) In an interview in an EGM magazine I had, one of the devs said that they wanted, explicitly, to break away from "lava worlds and ice worlds" in only so many words, because they wanted to break out of those common level themes in adventure titles and also differentiate the game from Prime 1, which had those*. This kind of thing isn't old at all, and tbh I think complaining about it is kind of "complaining to be complaining".

    It's much easier of a pitfall to make an ugly or boring place to try to be "different", so tbh I don't really mind "common" environments as long as they're fun.

    *And then, you know, Prime 3 had them anyway, but managed to differentiate from the Prime 1 environments with great effort, and even then I still found myself going "huh. this is kinda like magmoor". Prime Hunters had these kinds of environments wholesale without much change from how Prime 1 did them. Zelda has ice and lava levels in spades too.
  7. Snowbound


    At the moment I’m completely neutral about Frontiers. Here’s what I would need to see in the trailer tomorrow to get excited. This would need to be a longer trailer that contains:
    • Story info
    • Longer Clips of the cyberspace levels that show off the level design
    • Footage showing how the drop dash can be used to traverse the open zone
    • Another open zone environment shown off
  8. I'm fairly neutral about Frontiers, but just going purely off surface level aesthetics, it still very much carries the essence of a Boost game.

    I personally do not hate the Boost games as much as most here do. But the fact these games still heavily borrow from them kind of flies in the face of this game being a "bold new direction" for the series.
  9. foXcollr


    Resident Dolphin Member
    I honestly think the more responsive controls are demonstrable even without playing. He has a much shorter turn radius at high speeds and many folks who have played the demo described the controls as much less rigid than other 3D Sonic's, that he has less trouble turning, or that he feels less like a high-speed tank. Obviously I can't "feel" it myself, but I can visually see that they are doing things that have never been possible with boost Sonic. When new iterations of fighting games come out, the competitive community can usually pick up on when something is different about the movement because there are distinct differences, and I notice the same thing here that I noticed with Smash Ultimate. Sure it's the same DNA as the last game, but the tweaks they've made seem really healthy and take the focus away from mindlessly blasting through rubble and enemies. Turning 90 degrees at anything past a light jog is usually a huge chore, the fact that he has had a drift button even caters to their vision of a player object that controls like a sports car that's run out of steering fluid. When Ultimate came out a lot of people thought it was a deluxe port of Smash 4 (Wii U), but as soon as they looked deeper at the player movement the differences were super noticeable. Today, I'm sure everyone would acknowledge Ultimate is an evolution of the last game, but they are distinctly different games and one feels FAR superior to the other in every way because of those little universal movement changes.

    But tbh saying "it's just a boost game" is kind of a nothing statement to begin with because as long as it is a Sonic game and it has a boost button, you can't be wrong. It's an irrefutable statement regardless of if Sonic had Mario 64's physics and moveset, or if the boost doesn't do damage and is limited to a burst of speed. Going off of footage and hands-on impressions, I'm just gonna trust people aren't lying government drones and the differences are tangible. Andromeda is literally making a point here and the counter is always "you're not getting it" or "I'm done explaining it to you" when what folks are saying in response is also ostensibly nothing (replying to multiple people here, not you Laura). It's either "just a boost game" or it's "not a boost game" and I feel like we should just focus on the visible differences instead of which camp we all think it falls under. When qwertysonic said the turning is the same I lost confidence that this conversation is focused on any tangible evidence, just weird assertions. Boost Sonic literally has a boost button BECAUSE he is designed to not be able to turn at moderate or high speeds. You slam into a wall; it's an intentional design choice because the game is designed to feel like a rollercoaster.
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2022
  10. Laura


    Brightened Eyes Member
    I mean as I say it's hard to tell without playing it myself. I believe that he probably does control better.

    But the point @Blue Blood is making is that Frontiers clearly has Boost controls. That is, inorganic binary movement betweem slow and boost where it is designed to move easily while going very quickly and in straight lines, which doesn't synergies well with slower platforming. It's not simply the boost move itself. When I say Boost controls, I'm speaking specifically about that control framework, where the game is compensating moving easily at straight fast speeds by sacrificing slower precision.

    The reason why the Boost games need so much automation is because the Boost controls are really best suited for linear levels where you are mostly moving and doing homing attack gymnastics. The automation helps keep the momentum going because the controls are simply not well equipped to deal with genuine platforming. It's like a glorified racing game.

    And to be clear, I don't dislike the Boost controls persay. I love Generations. I don't even really mind the automation. A rollercoaster is fun if shallow.

    My problems with Frontiers is that I don't think the open world is a good fit with Boost controls. @Team Andromeda is right that Frontiers looks very different on a surface level. And in practice the game will play differently to the Boost games because you have much more freedom of movement. But in terms of how the game fundamentally controls, it seems to m3 that it's still operating under the Boost framework of prioritising moving comfortably at very fast speeds in straight lines over slower more methodical movement, which is why there is again so much automation in place to assist the player in platforming.

    And moreover, I don't like the aesthetic and don't think it has much style, which is a crucial for a game with the design philosophy of the Boost framework.

    If Sonic Team were to make another Boost game, I wish they'd accept it for what it is and play to it strengths. Big on spectacle and style. Drop the platforming and make stunning linear vistas with freedom in regards to which lines you take, and make them intersect with one another. Advance on the homing attack rhythm challenges in interesting ways. More levels in the vein of Rooftop Run. Don't try to force it do something it isn't good at doing.

    I do like Modern Seaside Hill despite how incredibly flawed it is, but primarily because of how the lines you can take throughout the level intersect with one another. It's not elegantly done because Boost isn't well suited for platforming, but it is cool going across paths. They should build upon that concept but in a more elegant manner.
  11. I still find it very disingenuous to call the controls or movement just simply as boost movement (or even just improved boost gameplay), when it's been stated by several journalists and playtesters that it's very far away from boost-type of control and gameplay (especially far away from the tanky/Forces-type) - but it's not only that, but with our own eyes, we can see this movement is unlike anything we've seen with the boost titles.

    Check out 1:07 to 1:14:

    Is there automated set-pieces and level design that we wish were eradicated? Sure. Does Sonic have a boost button? Yeah, but it's just a speed increase from what we've seen rather than a "Sonic-go-tanky-button". It's not like it's a straight-line tank move (per the sharp turns Sonic does with it in the video above), nor does a speed increase = boost gameplay. Is there a stomp? Yes, but that's not a gameplay element only in the boost titles.

    In regards to the controls, it does look like Sonic in Frontiers is very capable of both high-speed and sharp navigation that multiple playtesters have praised to be better than the traditional tanky boost gameplay and is shown in the above video. I don't think you can pull off 1:07 - 1:14 in any sort of boost title. Even turning around mid-air or even from a standstill in boost titles is non-responsive enough ("tank" movement as many would describe it), and so, in the above video, Sonic can turn on a simple dime in both mid-air and on the ground, which far exceeds the movement fluidity and control that you could only dream of achieving in boost titles.

    We'll get some serious confirmation and answers tomorrow though (+ whenever the public demo is supposed to go live? Is that starting tomorrow too?). We're almost there :eng101:
  12. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

    Classic Eggman art Member
    I like your style.

    Uh, I thought it was evident that was some kind of structure. Well, maybe not so evident, but still more "that must be an structure but maybe not" than "that must be a huge enemy but maybe not". Renus Retem is on the other game.

    Tha was at past year's SAGE, or maybe 2020? I couldn't play it because my relic computer run that at seconds per frame instead of frames per second, but it was the game shown there I wanted to play the most.


    Ok, so I read all that talk about boost controls, automation and open areas and, seriously, I see which way both sides come from but I genuinely think the real thing is somewhere in the middle of that all. Like this time all those springs and rails may be a bit out of place when you're supposed to be free, but at least you're free to choose which ones to take, if any, plus we knew Sonic Team wouldn't leave all that stuff behind no matter how much the paradigm shifted. If controls are free enough to leave you go around and choose your next challenge, we're already improving, and if it could be better but they at least really tried (emphasis on really), I'm ok with it because I just need a game on par with Generations' quality to be satisfied. And I've talked a lot about visuals, but I'm ok with them too if the game comes out and I feel and like the vibes they wanted to put there. We'll see if I can have a new gadget to play it when it comes out, or you'll have to tell me how good or bad it is (and, mind you, I hate relying on other people's opinions).
  13. charcoal


    Be Cool, Be Wild, and Be Groovy Member
    Can’t wait for the gamescom trailer tomorrow. Frontiers has been looking pretty fun so far and I’m excited to see more.
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  14. I entirely agree and like you say it looks like Sonic is now very controllable in both high and low speed, something I haven't seen since Sonic Adv, but that's just going on vid's. There were some vids that made Sonic 06 look nice and its turned out to be terrible. Looking forward to the show tomorrow and hopefully some true SEGA/Sonic fans playing the game and giving their honest impressions, not some of the usual suspects who just want to hate on anything Sonic or developed by Sonic Team.

    If SEGA get this right it could be a nice seller over Christmas given there's so little AAA new titles out this year.
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  15. foXcollr


    Resident Dolphin Member
    Welp, today should be one heck of a day.

    Release date listed from a Taiwanese retailer, November 15th.

    Unlisted video on the Japanese Sonic YouTube channel (now removed) gives a release date of November 8th.

    The Japanese one obviously seems legit, but it's possible the first one is just a placeholder. Considering how close the two dates are though, maybe that actually is the official release date in Taiwan.
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  16. Snub-n0zeMunkey


    yo what up Member
    literally a day before God of War Ragnarök releases. I'm probably gonna buy Sonic anyways lol
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  17. Day 1
  18. Sonic clears God of War obviously
  19. Mana


    Good! Great! Awesome! Outstanding! Amazing! Member
    I mean I'm excited but this is factually untrue. A new Open World Pokemon game, God of War, Gotham Knights (a Batman IP open world title) are all coming out around the same time as Frontiers.

    There's a lot of healthy competition coming out. I still think Frontiers will do great with good reviews because of the movie, and Sonic as an IP, but we have a lot of great games coming out in the next few months.
  20. While God of War is an entirely different demographic from who Sonic caters to, it is still one of the biggest game releases of this year. Sonic still has a stigma against it as a generally mediocre and subpar series and I think we all agree Sega have done a terrible job at marketing this game.

    Sony are going to shill the hell out of GoW, so if Sega actually want this game to sell then they're going to have not coast on brand recognition alone and actually advertise the game.

    That's not even getting into Pokemon releasing ten days later.