Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by MykonosFan, May 27, 2021.
Cam footage of what appears to be the Drop Dash and the Bounce Attack
I mean, Forces had some levels that were fully 3D lol
i don’t know. I’m more concerned about flow, rhythm, and quality level design than a 3D camera perspective. That in itself has never really been a focus for me.
The drop dash allows you to quickly regain momentum if you run into something unexpectedly, or to instantly change direction. The boost as well as the visibility of a 3D game negate the need of the first thing, and the air dash or just turning negate the need for the latter. So yeah, that’s a pretty worthless addition in my book. But whatever
Okay but you understand how that only strengthens my point, that there's nothing specific about any particular world map that is going into Frontiers's design. I didn't say you thought they were basing the gameplay off of it. I'm saying it literally is not inspired by it in any way beyond "it is a place for you to move between levels", and so is Kishimoto.
Bounce attack babyyy game is a 20/10 now
We've yet to see whether the boost will have its usual offensive capabilities in the action stages yet, so if that's not the case then drop dash can have a niche there. Furthermore, there may be specific paths that require Sonic to be curled up on the ground. At any rate, seeing the drop dash in 3D is certainly odd, and I'm surprised that the Adventure 2 styled bounce attack is here in addition to the stomp. I wonder if bounding on enemies will cause Sonic to fly up higher as a result.
Yeah, nothing he says really makes me think they're targeting the SM3 world map specifically, and I'm not sure what that would entail because SM3's map is like, the most barebones fundamental implementation of a world map. But I like that Snowbound brought up Sonic Colors' map and act structure, because even that game demonstrates why the "4 Green Hill Acts spread across 4 islands" theory is unlikely. It's just antithetical to a trend that occurs throughout the entire history of the franchise. There will very likely be at least 2 Acts multiple stages occurring somewhere in there, but I find it more likely that they are located somewhat near each other chronologically, not spread out across the game's runtime. The Cyberspace stages may just be little bite-sized challenges, but I don't think they're going to be entirely unrelated to the progression of the game and its story.
Excited to see a drop dash and (potentially) a bounce attack tbh. I can understand the "they just put this move in everything now" sentiment, but I think the move really does work quite well in 3D, and it's more fun and creative than simply pressing the boost button in midair and flying forward at the drop of a hat. The first version of Project Hero had it, which I think someone actually mentioned already. Extra movement options seem like a big plus to me, even if they turn out to have very niche use-cases. It also seems more like it's going to be a combat move in this game, considering the people writing about it seem to have unlocked it at some point in the overworld, so I'd like to see how it interacts with enemies when you roll into them.
Seeing/hearing about green hill/chemical plant re-use is a bit disappointing.
I dunno, I'm back to being a bit meh about this game again. I think the big thing for me is that moving through the world doesn't look very fun to control or particularly fluid.
I do wonder how these controls are supposed to work. If Sonic has a bounce attack, how does he perform it? Because it's not simply by pressing the B button in midair, because that's already the stomp. How does he do a drop dash when the jump button is already used for a double jump and the homing attack is already on X?
I speculated on SSMB that if they put the spindash anywhere, it's going to be on the left trigger like in Lost World, which would make sense for the drop dash too, but now I'm wondering if you have to equip some of these moves and can't use all of them at once. They had to put the light dash on the damn stick button, for crying out loud.
I think that's just the player stomping then immediately jumping afterwards. Don't you typically reserve some of your momentum when you use the bounce attack in SA2? In that footage it looks like the player comes to a halt before executing the move; that and the aura makes me think that's the stomp attack.
Afterwards though, that is definitely the Drop Dash. I think the player drop dashes to regain speed after using the stomp, which while niche, is actually pretty useful. I imagine the move might get more use in the 2D cyberspace levels.
Every action is mapped to the B button. This game may take inspiration from the Adventure series, but nobody said that would be a good thing.
I may be wrong since I haven't played it in 5 years, but doesn't the bounce attack halt your momentum (if only slightly) in Lost World?
Pretty sure Generations had a trail effect on the stomp, I don't know about Colours.
Yeah, I removed the mention of the trails in my original post since I thought "stomp aura" meant that and not the effect when touching the ground. But now that you mention it, I think Generations did have Stomp trails, but the effect didn't last long compared to Unleashed (much like the Jump Dash trail). And when it comes to Colors, the only trail effects I can think of are the ones from the Homing Attack.
I love the Drop Dash, so I've got no complaints about it becoming a staple. In 3D it'll probably be more fun than stomp-into-boost, even if it might not be quite as fast. We'll see about any supposed bounce attack, though I don't see that one staying as fun in a less momentum-based system.
After Rewatching the video I see your point. You’re saying that he was just presenting SMB3 as an example of a world map not as a source of inspiration.
At the same tho I don’t think I’ve completely changed my mind regarding potential SMB3 inspiration & I suspect our disagreement’s somewhat related to differing views on what “taking inspiration” means. I’m often indirectly inspired by other works. They may not directly influence what I’m working on however they help me put my work in context and expose me to different creative processes. For that reason I am interested in how other people contextualize their work. Kishimoto chose to invoke SMB3 to put the open zone in historical context. To me that implies he was inspired by SMB3 to some extent. Then again we know that Iizuka did not chose to bring up Adventure 3. He was asked directly by IGN. This could’ve been a similar situation.
On the other hand I suspect that Colors was heavily inspired by Mario 3. look at Colors’ world map and levels. Each world has 2 to 3 fun Boost Sonic levels… and the rest are blocky platforming challenges based around powerups, similar to Mario 3. But with way worse controls lol.
given Kishimoto’s past work in colors and forces I don’t think it’s a stretch to raise the POSSIBILITY that we may see this Mario-type of level designs in the cyberspace levels or even parts of the open world. At the same time I should prob avoid emphasizing this video interview to much given the fact that IGN edited out the context of Iizuka and Kishimoto’s comments
So if you hold the button from a single jump, it still happens? Seems kind of unwieldy. You could activate it by accident if you aren't paying attention
What concerns me about today's IGN video is the fact that he was finishing the cyberspace levels in about two minutes on his first run. But, that's tempered by him saying that he spent most of his four hour session in cyberspace, just replaying the three or four levels he found, suggesting that even if they're short, there's plenty of replay value and plenty to sink your teeth into.
Hold on to "what if?"...
I don't want 2D in these games because if I do I'd rather boot up Mania or 3&K. Also being someone whose first consoles were the Gamecube and PS2 I just find 3D games inherently more fun than 2D ones (not that I hate 2D ones before fingers start flying across keyboards). Which I know is a sacrilegious thing to say in most gaming communities, not just Sonic ones, because the gaming boomers will immediately start yelling at you that 2D was the birth of gaming and your 3D games wouldn't exist without them, but what else can I say *shrug* 3D movement is just inherently more fun for me than 2D movement.
Separate names with a comma.