Sonic Frontiers Thread - PS4, PS5, Xbox, Switch, PC

Note, I'm not saying the game is going to be bad. But nothing that has been shown has really incentivised me on playing it.

 

Thanks

I like system16 it's a great source of views and SEGA stuff, but I think Tom Kalinske lies and looks to spread hate at SEGA Japan's expense, he is not the SEGA hero many love to make him out to be, without Sonic, John Madden the Mega Drive would never sell have sold so well, nor do I did I buy the talk of Saturn was hidden from SEGA America, SOA didn't have Saturn development tools, Sega killed the MD off early talk SEGA could have had the PS tech, SEGA Japan are horrible, The early launch was SEGA Japan Ect, Ect.

For me, the real true SEGA Hero was Hayao Nakayama; A man who transformed SEGA and believed in his teams and tech, a man who bleeds blue blood.

I'll have far more time for Tom, if he just came out and said the honest truth and that it was was clear he believed the price of the 32X added to the huge MD marketshare would win the 32-bit battle. He made the call to push ahead with the 32X and he should have the guts to admit it

 

"Sonic Team" games are developed by CS2, who make other games as well. Sonic Frontiers hasn't been in full development for 5 years.

Here are Sonic Forces' credits: https://www.mobygames.com/game/playstation-4/sonic-forces/credits

Let's take a look at what the "Field Artists" have been doing since Sonic Forces.

https://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,97771/

Art/Graphics
Sakura Wars (2020) (Background Artists)
Valkyria Chronicles 4 (2018) (Background Support)
Sonic Forces (2017) (Field Artists)

https://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,52507/

Art/Graphics
Sakura Wars (2020) (Background Artists)
Fist of the North Star: Lost Paradise (2018) (Background Production Team)
Sonic Forces (2017) (Field Artists)

https://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,501092/

Art/Graphics
Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games: Tokyo 2020 (2019) (Stage Artists)
Olympic Games Tokyo 2020: The Official Video Game (2019) (Stage Artists)
Sonic Forces (2017) (Field Artists)

https://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,413254/

Art/Graphics
Sakura Wars (2020) (Background Artists)
Valkyria Chronicles 4 (2018) (Background Support)
Sonic Forces (2017) (Field Artists)

https://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,182239/

Art/Graphics
Sakura Wars (2020) (Background Artists)
Valkyria Chronicles 4 (2018) (Background Support)
Sonic Forces (2017) (Field Artists)

https://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,413257/

Art/Graphics
Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games: Tokyo 2020 (2019) (Stage Artists)
Olympic Games Tokyo 2020: The Official Video Game (2019) (Stage Artists)
Sonic Forces (2017) (Field Artists)

https://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,501093/

Art/Graphics
Sakura Wars (2020) (Background Artists)
Fist of the North Star: Lost Paradise (2018) (Props Production Team)
Valkyria Chronicles 4 (2018) (Background Support)
Sonic Forces (2017) (Field Artists)

https://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,43617/

Art/Graphics
Sakura Wars (2020) (Background Artists)
Fist of the North Star: Lost Paradise (2018) (Props Production Team)
Sonic Forces (2017) (Field Artists)

https://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,93360/

Art/Graphics
Olympic Games Tokyo 2020: The Official Video Game (2019) (Character Artists)
Sonic Forces (2017) (Field Artists)

https://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,457983/

Art/Graphics
Scarlet Nexus (2021) (Background Art)
Puyo Puyo Tetris 2 (2020) (Artists)
Sonic at the Olympic Games: Tokyo 2020 (2020) (Art Directors)
Olympic Games Tokyo 2020: The Official Video Game (2019) (Stage Artists)
Etrian Odyssey Nexus (2018) (Background Design)
BlazBlue: Central Fiction (2017) (Background Artists: Bamboo Co., Ltd.)
The Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel III (2017) (Scenery: Bamboo)
Sonic Forces (2017) (Field Artists)

https://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,43673/

Art/Graphics
Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games: Tokyo 2020 (2019) (Art Director)
Valkyria Chronicles 4 (2018) (Background Support)
Sonic Forces (2017) (Field Artists)

https://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,880457/

Art/Graphics
Judgment (2018) (Background Production Team)
Sonic Forces (2017) (Field Artists)

https://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,399738/

Art/Graphics
Sonic Forces (2017) (Field Artists)

https://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,210145/

Art/Graphics
Sonic Forces (2017) (Field Artists)

Here's Art Director, Yoshitaka Miura:

https://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,52506/

Art/Graphics
Sonic at the Olympic Games: Tokyo 2020 (2020) (Artists)
Valkyria Chronicles 4 (2018) (Background Support)
Sonic Forces (2017) (Art Director)

And here's Senior Art Director, Sachiko Kawamura:

https://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,43616/

Production
ChuChu Rocket! Universe (2019) (Character Supervisors)
Super Smash Bros. Ultimate (2018) (Original Game Supervisors (SEGA))

Art/Graphics
Sakura Wars (2020) (Graphic Supervisor)
Sonic Forces (2017) (Senior Art Director)

Support
Sonic Colors: Ultimate (2021) (Support members from the original team)
Puyo Puyo Tetris 2 (2020) (Project Support)
Sonic at the Olympic Games: Tokyo 2020 (2020) (Development Support)
Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games: Tokyo 2020 (2019) (Development Support)
Olympic Games Tokyo 2020: The Official Video Game (2019) (Development Support)
Team Sonic Racing (2019) (Development Support)
Puyo Puyo Champions (2018) (Project Support)
Valkyria Chronicles 4 (2018) (Development Support)

Thanks
Super Monkey Ball: Banana Mania (2021) (Special Thanks)
Virtua Racing (2019) (Special Thanks)


So no, re-using levels isn't born out of a lack of creativity, and they haven't been sitting on their asses for five years. Sketching new level concepts is the easy part, but then they need a team to actually model and texture the graphics, and that team needs enough time to do so.

Sonic Frontiers' selling point is the large Open Zone environments. That is what they've prioritised. If the linear levels are repurposed from previous games, then that's clearly a practical decision first and foremost. They can only do so much with the time and staff and budget they have.

 

It looks like people are treating Frontiers' level design as if the open-zone were just a hub world and the cyberspaces are the main levels.

 

We literally have an interview with a developer of the game who likens the Open Zone "hub" to the World Map of Mario (except playable), so yeah, that checks out?

 

There's no reason to assume that - the game's shtick is literally "open zone", not "bite sized boost levels".

 

I shouldn't be surprised that they're reusing levels but it really is just the biggest turn off at this point. Can't wait to go through a worse version of chemical plant zone from generations again.

 

Ah yes, we have no reason to interpret that statement as intentional, or to wonder why these Cyberspace levels are being left last for proper reveal. Pray tell, what -are- the Cyberspace levels, if the hub is the World Map (which implies by itself that it is not the main levels, but rather a precursor to them)?

If this game's main feature -is- its world map, I'm sorry, but it's super uninteresting to a player who appreciates the neater aspects of Sonic games' design. It's not got very many Sonic-like elements, and the ones it does have are the ones we complain about a lot; the automation-insisting springs, boosters, hoops and rails. If the Cyberspace levels are as linear as the short clip we have of Sky Sanctuary implies, then this game certainly isn't for me, because that sounds like more Forces but on a much bigger scale, only we have repetitive combat, tediously spongy enemies, braindead slow puzzles, and a whole lot of nothing in between.

 

It seems to me that you took one line from an interview and made it your entire perception of the game, despite the fact that the creators have repeated emphasized the "open zone" being the main draw. The cyberspace levels likely haven't been revealed, as others have repeatedly said, because right now SEGA is trying to focus the marketing on the Sonic game coming out this week, and not put everybody's attention on the game that's coming out in the next few months. The cyberspace levels are likely, as we have been told, "bite-sized" boost levels. There would be no reason to make them the focus of the game and then tell everybody that this is an "open zone" game. Yes, the marketing for Frontiers has been terrible, but that just literally makes no sense - if they wanted to make another boost game with hub levels, then they would be telling us that. I'm really baffled on how you came to this conclusion.

 

The Cyberspace levels are more like Special Stages to grab Chaos Emeralds. Usually the main levels lead to the Special Stages, but you don't treat the Special Stages as the main levels.

 

When nintendo marketed BotW, they focused on the world, which can acts as a "precursor to the main dungeons" like the past games

except, the dungeons themselves in this game got less attention and less details compared to the world which was the main meat of the game, some fans often laments the fact that the dungeons themselves weren't as good or big as previous Zelda games and weren't the main focus this time, but anyway, the world was the main attraction of the game with the most resources put into it and most people loved it for the world

Elden Ring was the same, whenever it was marketed, the world was the main thing about the game that differentiate it from previous souls games , it did have "legacy dungeons" but they were not the main thing at all , not in marketing or what people loved about that game

 

Also i find the topic of "Frontiers reusing assets and level themes?! this will go BADLY for the game reception!" funny when....like the entire Yakuza series use the exact same city each game and it's fine there, they could have games take places in other towns, but no matter what, Kamorocho is ALWAYS present.
or Elden Ring having it's main dungeons be just another sets of castles like all previous games -and how Dark Souls 3 straight up reused a location from DS1-
or how BotW2 already reusing locations from BotW1 based on the trailers, possibly the entire world map even, with no change or new assets present in the trailers

Or GoW Ragnarok

Or RDR2

and all of those are highly regarded games too, no one call the developers lazy or incompetent or short on budget etc, this is just smart reuse of assets that assists the development of those games and help them make bigger content

so it's funny to see such strong reactions to the mere idea that Sonic Team dared to reuse assets to make their game

 

Incidentally, one of the most prominent Nintendo rumors right now is that they’ll have their typical E3 Direct on June 29 as well. Since Frontiers is getting a Switch version, might be an opportune time to bring out a more traditional trailer that gives a broad overview rather than just out-of-context B-roll.

 

I'm not someone particularly upset about asset reuse in this game, but I don't think this is really the right way to go about responding to complaints. Sonic is a series about adventure! Exploring new worlds is Sonic's entire modus operandi. He's been going new places for twenty years before Generations. We got completely new locales in every game up to 2011, even games like Secret Rings and Black Knight which probably should've had their resources go to Unleashed (maybe it wouldn't have needed the werehog if they just spent those games' resources on it). I understand that game dev takes more now than it did even in 2009, but there are ways that they can reuse content even while still making stages they haven't used since 2011. And maybe they did! Like Mykonos said earlier, we've gotten a few glimpses at one action stage and barely one of another, and there are at leaks that are, if nothing else, extremely lucky guesses referring to different stages than the ones we've seen. But it's not like this is a GHZ texture reappearing on the walls of a different area (that's kind of what a lot of people wanted from the overworld, actually), you can literally see the Death Egg in the background of Sky Sanctuary. It didn't need to be there, it would actively take less work to leave it out. They chose to put it there.

 

i get that it is disappointing that in the last decade they focused a lot on nostalgia pandering and people crave new settings, so whati say may seem reductive, maybe they actually are

But i also remember Mania that was like 90% reuse of assets and levels from past games, and yet it's so loved, from everyone, fans or otherwise, it didn't seem like it affect reception that much just for the quality of the game, this is the most obvious example now that i think about it.

And also i see the fact that most of the game is new settings anyway, and so those "bite-sized" stages using older levels don't bother me anymore for this reason -and for all we know they are not all reused stages, maybe they contain new stages also-

Of course one could simply not like the new setting anyway and find them too generic and realistic for it's own good , but just saying that regardless of this, they still count as new huge locations that weren't present in the past

 

I'm not exactly sure whether this is the case. Mania is loved despite the asset reuse. Pretty much most reviews I saw (from Sonic fans and non alike) said, "it's a great game, but I wish more stages were like the original ones, as those were the best in the game". The game is held back by reused stages. Still a great game, and my favourite 2D Sonic, but the game would've been multiple times more fun with wholly original stages.

 

Guys I'm sorry, but I can't believe we're arguing that the game is supposed to focus solely on the action stages when we didn't even have confirmation they existed until 2 weeks ago. This is getting crazy levels of pedantic. The vast majority of the game is the open world, all the combat is in the open world, all the bosses are in the open world. They said the action stages are just bite-sized trials you go through to collect Keys. I have literally not a single ungodly idea as to how we started thinking this is just a regular boost game and the entire open world has now been likened to just a hub to walk between action stages.

If you don't like the open world or you don't think it looks fun, that's an entirely different story, but seriously how on earth is anyone disagreeing with @raphael_fc ? They just said a factual statement that we knew about the game when it was revealed. Nobody mentioned an action stage, nobody said anything about Keys or entering portals. They advertised it as a big open world with combat and bosses and exploration because that's the vast majority of the game's content. We have known the open world was the focus of this game since day #1. If you are angry about your video game, that's chill, but it is just the objective truth that the thing you are complaining about is less than 0.5% of the footage we've seen from the game, and in the actual game that thing is going to make up like a collective 5% of playtime.

Again, I'm not saying like it or hate it, that's up to you, and I'm not even saying asset reuse doesn't suck. But this is not Sonic Unleashed 2, it's not like this is a regular boost game and we just saw the debut footage of the first of 7 stages and it was Sky Sanctuary again. These are literally mini game levels that are scattered around the rest of the game like shrines. The stages can still suck and the open world can still suck, but most of the game you won't be in an action stage because this is not Sonic Unleashed 2. We've known that since day 1 and it is not changing

 

Talking on and on about this with so little material or knowledge of the game’s progression is becoming tiresome.

No one can defend the blatant re-use of large chunks of levels and assets for what is meant to be a whole new game, and one that players have waited five years for at that.

Mania got away with it, because that was the games premise; it re-introduced some levels that hadn’t been seen since 1994, and, let’s not forget, souped up most of the visuals for all re-used assets too.

However, I think we need to wait to find out how these re-used levels fit in with the context of the game, how many there truly are, and how much is re-used, before we continue to discuss this further.

 

I mean that's pretty liberally skimming over the fact that people cite Mania's remixed levels as the huge weakpoint of the game and that, whenever anyone talks about a hypothetical sequel, the first stipulation to come up is more often than not "with only new levels". Sure, it didn't necessarily make Mania less fun in the moment to moment gameplay and it did work for Mania, but little new ground has been broken regarding level locales since 2011 and I think it's entirely reasonable for people to be frustrated by that when Sonic has been so good at giving us such great variety in the past. And they can still do this while getting away with asset reuse, too. Objects could be retextured or even just recoloured, or backgrounds could be changed to recontextualise assets in new level tropes. And to be clear, I understand that asset reuse is in fact good and economical for game development, especially when crunch still seems to be so prevalent, and if the returning stages constitute even up to half the action stages then I can live with that, but the number of new level tropes Sonic has done since 2011 can be counted on two hands and, from a player's perspective, I think it needs to be understood that it can grow tiresome.

 

Mania touched up their assets, rearranged level designs significantly once you get past the throwback stage, and was a stipulation by Sonic Team for the game to be more than a 4-zone title. And as Lucas put it, a lot of people criticized it for the throwback stuff, to the point that I see a surprising amount of people dismiss the game altogether because of the reuse.

People don't mind some semblance of thematic familiarity, but they don't want nostalgia bait in excess. That's why this past near-decade since Lost World is so troubling for a lot of folks: they don't want to retread the same stuff we've seen constantly for so long. Even if you have to use Green Hill to some degree, people don't just want to see Green Hill with a name change and some new assets here or there, they would rather a new spin on it altogether. So when you see Death Egg in Sky Sanctuary, that's why people start raising the red flags.