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Sonic Frontiers Thread - PS4, PS5, Xbox, Switch, PC

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by MykonosFan, May 27, 2021.

  1. Deep Dive Devin

    Deep Dive Devin

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    There are gates around. You use the gears the bosses drop to get into them, and I think they're these, which you probably wall-run to get into:
    [​IMG]
     
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  2. I'm 99% sure they are- in the old island fly-over footage, one of them was lit up with a red glow inside
     
  3. Honestly, the reusing of old stages is bad. But what particularly gets me is that they had five years to sit on this and this was all they could come up with.

    That's the level of creativity we're dealing with from these developers, just reusing old levels from a game from over 10 years ago and from two whole console generations.

    And the annoying part is that we're going to have to hear discourse about this fucking series for another half a decade...
     
  4. arc

    arc

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    I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with exploring an existing idea—IE, a cyberspace level taking place in an established Sonic locale. However, if (as I’m seeing many suggest here) Sega is straight up reusing parts of level—especially whole mechanical sections (platform, hazard, and powerup placement & orientation, etc.)—from existing games, that’s an instant no-go. That’s self plagiarism. Can you imagine if Lava Reef just copied sections from Marble Garden?
     
  5. MykonosFan

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    For whatever reason, it feels like a lot of their time and budget has gone into these big open islands they keep talking up. Returning level tropes is likely more a budget/weird management decision than a lack of creativity. It'd definitely be nicer to go to cool new Sonic-styled levels, or even just revisit different old levels if we have to. But assigning this to a lack of creativity feels misplaced.
     
  6. foXcollr

    foXcollr

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    This is how Mitchell Saltzman describes the process of unlocking action stages and getting Chaos Emeralds.

    https://twitter.com/TailsChannel/status/1534217401105014784?t=F09YcA3uc8K2PYWJ24ESCw&s=19

    Edit: oh my browser did not load the entire last page, I guess everyone already answered, but he describes it pretty concisely here

    I'm personally not ruling out new levels yet, especially given the possible leaks. Not that I'm disagreeing with the rest of your post.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2022
  7. I would agree, but there are plenty of other levels they could have pulled from rather than the ones they went with.

    Additionally, they could have at least changed up the aesthetic somewhat. Switching the stage to night, add weather effects, etc literally something to make these levels stand out than their original form.

    But no, the levels look to be almost directly lifted from Generations wholesale. Like I'm fully expecting to see Chemical Plant at this point too.
     
  8. Simon A.C. Martin

    Simon A.C. Martin

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    I’m sad that Frontiers is looking very BOTW rip off and also fundamentally a backwards step in terms of level and asset reuse.

    Why is it when there’s so much potential to do something spectacular Sega somehow contrive to make these poor decisions, over and over and over again?

    What has sega learned since Sonic 06, really? The two best games since then were Mania and then Generations (3D stages), IMO. The former did a good job of blending old and the new, the latter did a great job of taking the old and making new levels from the themes and tropes.

    Everything in frontiers feels like a mish mash with little or no cohesion to any central new vision aside from “ape BOTW” and “what can we get away with reusing”.

    Which is all well and good when you’re developing a game based around genteel and slow paced exploration (see Pokémon SV) but this is meant to be a fast paced, action packed platformer. What we have instead is a largely autonomous game again…

    I’m really regretting catching up on frontiers this month. I was happier not seeing it and largely avoiding news on it. Maybe I’m just a jaded 90s fanboy (sorry!) but every bit more that gets revealed is a bit more disappointing on this game.

    Sorry all to vent - I really wanted to like frontiers - but :(
     
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  9. MykonosFan

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    If they pulled other levels from the other two games they've made and released over the last decade, I can't shake the feeling we'd be having this same discussion. Would you feel they're less creatively bankrupt if the glimpse we've seen was of the pyramid level from Forces, instead? The desert level from Lost World? We can be disappointed with the Generations level tropes returning, I'd rather see original tropes myself, but I'm only pushing back against the idea that it's "creatively bankrupt". There's a reason we're seeing these again, and the reason is probably dumb and something that we'd pick apart and agree on. It isn't a lack of imagination.

    To that end, we've barely even seen these levels in Frontiers. Nighttime and weather effects especially are too early to call and say they "could have" done those. If we assume they are using the Generations level tropes only, we've seen a working time of day cycle and weather effects system in the island footage. Even Generations itself had missions at different times of day. We could at least get everything you've mentioned as it seems likely we'll have multiple "acts" in each trope throughout the game, again, if we work under the assumption that it's all just Generations derived.
     
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  10. RikohZX

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    They'll probably have different names and not 100% ported assets, a vague semblance of originality like Forces tried, but whatever. I was already on the fence about the game, I have to see more of how these stages play out one way or another.

    I find it funny that it's the cyberspace levels that Sega is dancing around on showing while we keep getting interview after interview. If they have so many in theory, why not pop out at least one?
     
  11. I would still be somewhat annoyed, but nowhere near as much as I am as it is now. Its not so much simply reusing levels that bothers me, so much the specific levels they chose from a game that was already about Sonic revisiting older stages and on top of the previous entry in the series doing that as well. I loved Generations, but its a novelty that should have stayed in 2011 and not brought back for every game afterward. Sure, things could change and most of my words would be unfounded, but this series hasn't exactly earned that type of goodwill to get the benefit of the doubt from me.

    Sure, there's probably narrative justification for this; everything seems to imply these stages are Sonic trying to reconstruct his own memories, similar to what the Shrines in BoTW do. But the difference is that Link losing his memories served the narrative function of putting the player in a similar position as the protagonist as you slowly uncover the mystery of what happened around you. IF these cyberspace stages are meant to serve a similar purpose, then all we're doing is simply retreading events any Sonic fan should be aware of by going through these past stages.


    Like, its really hard for me to not just see it as a creatively bankrupt decision, no matter how they try to dress it up and justify it.
     
  12. LucasMadword

    LucasMadword

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    If they're reusing assets, I'd just not want to see Green Hill Zone or Chemical Plant again. I'm not as fussed with other levels, especially Crisis City which I think has one of the coolest aesthetics from the Generations stage roster (and some of the best level design in that entire game). We just see GHZ and CPZ too often, give those a break and use some others if you *have* to reuse assets.
     
  13. Deep Dive Devin

    Deep Dive Devin

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    I'll say I am still thinking about the "spring valley" leak, if only because it lines up with some of the area scaling we've heard about, and the Demon Slayer connection (Sonic's attack-sensing thing) is similar enough to be an extremely lucky coincidence if it is just a coincidence.

    Also, I forgot about this, but Spring Valley is a location the characters briefly visit (well, montage through) in the 30th anniversary "Seasons of Chaos" story, alongside the obvious NiGHTS connection. I don't know if that makes it more or less likely.
     
  14. Mana

    Mana

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    SEGA is planning on releasing a collection of Classic Sonic games this Thursday for $40 and don't want to go all in on Frontiers information until that's out and has gotten it's sales.

    A lot of sources are saying the cyberspace levels will be shown off on the 29th. Not that long away really.
     
  15. I don't get the hate on this game at all (other than the usual Sonic and Sonic Team bashing) I think it looks really good and looks to be a game where you are in full control of Sonic, something we haven't really seen since Sonic Adv.
     
  16. Are you the same Team Andromeda from Sega-16?

    I think the problem is that the visual parts of the game, the only things we can really comment on without playing ourselves, are pretty uninspired and/or technically deficient. The world design is a bit too bland for some people, the animations need work, and there was horrendous pop-in in the first reveal. Now we’re also being presented with the possibility that some of the game’s levels are being lifted from previous titles. The game has grown on me since that first footage IGN shown, but most of my excitement has come from hearing people’s impressions about it.

    Regarding the re-use of levels:
    I don’t like it, but the level design is ultimately what will make or break them to me. Asset reuse is super common and completely avoiding it is stupid and inefficient, but Sonic Team should know to conceal it a bit better. There’s a difference between using enemy models or textures to speed up the process and just making another level called Sky Sanctuary.

    Either way, the main draw of the game is the open world.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2022
  17. That be good or bad?. I am the silly welsh valley's TA mind
     
  18. Angel X

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    For me, the important thing is that the game is fun in general.
    Take Green Hill Zone for example, it's featured in almost all Sonic games, but it's always nice to play.
    Only the appearance is always taken, but the zone changes according to the game we are playing in.
    I'd like to see something different too, but the important thing is that it's fun, right?
     
  19. I agree, but I also feel Sonic team need to nail the controls. I'll love the Boost style gameplay myself, but you never feel in total control of Sonic and I haven't felt that since Sonic Adv myself.
     
  20. I always like your posts on there, so it’s good! It’s been a while since I’ve lurked the S16 forums but I think I remember you weren’t into the whole, “SoA was great, SoJ was a bunch of jealous losers,” narrative that persists among some Sega fans. Unless I’m mistaken.