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Sonic Frontiers Thread - PS4, PS5, Xbox, Switch, PC

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by MykonosFan, May 27, 2021.

  1. Yuzu

    Yuzu

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    The original PSO2 doesn't use the Hedgehog Engine. It uses a modified version of the engine that powered Phantasy Star Universe. This was a common misconception at launch.

    No idea if PSO2 NGS does though. But considering that Hedgehog Engine 2 has only been used in Sonic Team/Sega CS2 developed games like Sonic Forces and Sakura Wars 2019 (PSO2 & NGS are both developed by Sega Online R&D), I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't either.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2022
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  2. brandonj

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    Noticed something interesting about that floating diamond-shaped structure a couple days ago.

    [​IMG]

    If you flip it upside down it seems to have the glyph that was teased in the earliest trailer on the inside:

    [​IMG]

    I'm not really sure what that ultimately means but I don't think anyone else has noticed it so far so I figured it's worth mentioning.
     
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  3. Wildcat

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    I agree there’s too much pop in but like the guy in that video mentioned the footage is probably an earlier build...but he thinks it can’t be fixed or hasn’t already. Only Sega knows when this is from.

    I think another indication is the “emptiness”. I could be wrong but I think they purposely left things out like structures and such to only show off the landscape and Sonic running around. Certain things are clearly meant to be unlocked.

    These are not proper trailers. They’re demonstrating individual gameplay elements. Either people don’t understand this or do and just want to find fault with it.
     
  4. Shaddy the guy

    Shaddy the guy

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    I don't think anyone is in disagreement that these aren't designed to be trailers. The point is that it's not really a great way to show off the game so far, because it's devoid of context and the person playing appears to have flippers for hands.
     
  5. Crimson Neo

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    Starting to think the next gameplay video (?) will be in those things that are in the sky, probably.
     
  6. Ritz

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    You're infantilizing the audience of the two companies that collaborated on F-Zero GX, a game that 1) is about twice as fast and twitchy as the fastest, twitchiest Sonic game, 2) probably had a completion rate of around 2%, 3) is still probably the most critically acclaimed Gamecube game after Smash Bros. Melee. Those two, Bayonetta, Super Monkey Ball- I think you could credibly make the case that the most difficult games either company produces are also some of the most beloved. SRB2's prime demographic is tween converts from Roblox.

    Children are uniquely suited for difficult games when they have disposable free time and no other practical outlets for the innate human drive towards mastery. I only stopped speedrunning and 1CCing games once I got a real hobby around age 18. If a Sonic game failed for being too daunting, it would at least be a novel failure instead of a greatest hits of lessons learned and forgotten like this shit is.

    Also your calculus doesn't account for speed and physics-centric design being mutually antagonistic goals. Sonic 1's lack of a spindash makes it the only game where an understanding of the physics model is mandatory: you're expected to struggle to clear the first loop, you're expected to linger in the Spring Yard halfpipe until you accumulate enough momentum to launch out of the pit. Resistance to speed is the entire point of the physics model. When Sonic fans cry about momentum, what they're asking for is a slower game.

    And the thing is, aside from the initial mathematical hurdles (which- again- this company HAS ALREADY SOLVED 20 YEARS AGO), a slower game with physics would be MUCH, MUCH easier to design. It's less error-prone. You don't need to do high speed collision checks while accumulating floating point error on a map that's 10 miles long. You don't need to sink 3 years into developing systems for asset streaming and hours-long lighting bakes for your 10 mile map. You don't need to trivialize combat and stage gimmicks with homing attacks and micromanaged scripted events because you move too fast for meaningful hazard design. You can just drop some bumps in the map and the stage practically designs itself.

    Not committing to a physics-driven model is, in fact, the most difficult and least economical design choice the company has ever made. It cost them tens of millions of dollars.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2022
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  7. FunkySpaceAlien

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    I watched a theory video where it seems like you're actually "building" the open world by introducing objects back through completing puzzles.


    Honestly, this guy made it seem like it sounds cooler than it probably would be. At most, I think it'll be as simple as "you complete a puzzle, now you can grind over this gap", lol.
     
  8. Wildcat

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    A lot of people are definitely treating them as final or almost final representations of the open world saying it needs a delay.

    I agree it’s not the best way to show off a new game. Not because of the technical stuff but it’s annoying just getting it in portions.
    Have not seen this video yet but I had the exact same thought. I can see some of it work that way.

    Edit: Ok it’s actually not what I was thinking. I thought maybe beating cyberspace levels builds structures and stuff to interact with. So the way you said it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2022
  9. Chaos Fusion

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    Agreed, this sounds too good to be true. They would be taking a massive gamble for a meta concept, hoping to win back the sales lost to how intentionally rough early game is meant to look.
    That is insanity...but if it's somehow true and they pull it off, jfc I'll buy their entire stock.
     
  10. foXcollr

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    I'd like to find out what those are too, and what that insignia means. I'm also assuming that giant floating pyramid is more than just a place to collect coins and other collectibles. Some people were saying they thought the tower in the footage may be a portal of some sort because of the unlit panel at the top, but surely this giant pyramid thing... serves a purpose too? I'll be very confused if these are all just random setpieces and don't have any real purpose. And there are also numerous other landmarks we can see around the map, with no explanation so far as to what they are.

    But I'm also just wondering when we will finally get the cyberspace reveal, assuming the half-true leaks turn out to be entirely accurate. The only reason we even know about the cyberspace thing is through leaks, and the Steam page mentions worlds colliding, so I think it's pretty clear they're alluding to a separate "dimension". And that's kind of strange given how close to release we are. My bet is that, assuming they do exist, we'll see them within the next 2-3 videos... I hope.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2022
  11. Shaddy the guy

    Shaddy the guy

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    Well, it depends on what aspect of the game you're talking about.

    The technical problems are totally fixable before release, and I expect them to do so. This simply is not a state Sonic Team has released a game in in fifteen years and I don't think it's going to be the pioneer in that regard. Being polished, even if not especially interesting, has been Sonic's M.O. since Unleashed. The animations...probably can be fixed, but I have a little less faith in Sonic Team to do so. If they technically get the job done, I'm not sure the devs would see a problem with them. I think they'll probably fix the one where Sonic reverts to his standing animation midair, but the rest is gonna be left up to mods, more than likely.

    But the core mechanics and world design...those are final. If the game doesn't get a big delay to overhaul and repurpose large amounts of content with heavily-improvised new design (a thing that is definitely not happening), then what we've seen is representative of the final product. At the very best, the numerical values of Sonic's attributes, such as his speed cap when not boosting, could receive adjustments (as Sonic does accelerate down slopes and decelerate up them), but the world design is not going to become Sonic Adventure and Sonic is not going to suddenly control like Utopia when the game releases. I suppose Forces went through multiple iterations of object layouts for some of its stages, but never something so drastic as to make the people who hated that game change their minds.

    I don't think what we've seen so far will be awful, assuming it no longer runs like ass by that point. But we have to be realistic and not treat the fundamentals of the game as subject to change. The game can still be good even if all that remains the same. I'm still looking forward to exploring this open world even if other people here say it's shallow (I also really hope Dark Sonic is right about being able to upgrade Sonic's top speed, because that would actually put the game closer to the momentum people want), and if the cyberspace levels are any good, then we have a solid boost game that contains an interesting experiment into open-world gameplay, which is still a win to me.
     
  12. Wildcat

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    I’m talking about the landscape and dashpads/rails placed about. People complaining they don’t fit or shouldn’t be needed. I’m sure there’s a reason for them.

    I agree the overall design and mechanics are final there’s just things we are not seeing. I don’t expect the pop in to stay either but others make a big issue out of it like it’s confirmed to remain.

    I’m looking forward to exploring the open world too. I know there’s more to it than mundane tasks. I know people want it to play like the Sonic CD intro. Something like that would be cool but as long as it’s fun to explore and do things I’ll be happy.
     
  13. RikohZX

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    It's definitely going to be interesting seeing a Digital Foundry run on this one. I presume Sega's running PS4 or Xbox One for the footage so far because, let's be honest, it's not real 4K with all that artifacting and lack of pixel density, and the new-gen hardware should be able to handle this stuff no problem, but the Switch is gonna be an absolute mess. If this was Switch footage but upscaled, I'd be impressed, but I can't see this as even footage from the Pro hardware tier of the last gen.

    If this is meant to be Pro/X or PS5/XSX tier footage somehow then this is a train wreck of an engine, and while optimization and Q&A is one of the last things in development as far as I know, I dunno if this is fixable.
     
  14. Aerosol

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    I don't think I've seen (that many) people claim that the technical issues present are confirmed to remain...more that showing the game with so many of them is just not a good look.
     
  15. BlueSkiesAM2

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    Yeah, I noticed that some things appeared after completing puzzles which will probably fill out the world in a way that looks more satisfying than it does currently, but I cannot see these amounting to an entire level’s worth of content.

    Idk if it’s because I’m away on holiday right now, but I’m in a better mood regarding the game lol. Outside of the pop-in and the egregious lack of one rail switching animation, nothing has me SUPER put off from playing the game. I think if Sega just compiled a better trailer to start this reveal period off with, then had a bit tighter gameplay footage for these more in-depth features, the whole process would have gone more smoothly.
     
  16. Aesculapius Piranha

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    To be honest a friend (who mind you is not an idiot and works in the industry) said this to me and I half took it as gospel and did a quick search and before posting and saw people saying the same thing and took it as confirmation. Now looking again I can only find social media buzz saying similar and digging deeper I actually found a source saying that it is a custom engine for this one, also confirming specifically that they didn't use Unity or Unreal (duh). Here is the (relevant) google translated text:

    Also in my defense I could have sworn I read a game news site that said this, but even if that were true a SOJ source citing a custom internal engine kind of beats that.
     
  17. The Joebro64

    The Joebro64

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    I found an article that summarizes reactions to Frontiers quite succinctly.
     
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  18. Aerosol

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    Sonic (?): Coming summer of 2055...?
    Funny

    @Aesculapius Piranha I mean all of that could easily mean "custom build of the PSO2:NGS" engine as much as "new build of HE2" as much as something else entirely! We probably won't know for sure for quite a while yet.
     
  19. Aesculapius Piranha

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    I'm also finding similar banter on a Japanese image board both mirroring the sentiment because the grass looks like what is in the NGS engine and more interestingly saying a lot of the PSO2 team was moved to this project to get it out the door. It may be possible to confirm the staffing thing if it popped up in the media at all so I will look into that too. Other than that yay rumor and confirming fans are similar across borders..

    I can share the link at request but it is a random ass imageboard and adblock says it blocked 25 items so I'm not going to post it here.

    Edit: For me this is where the info trail went cold. Didn't find confirmation of what people were saying with employees being shifted around.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2022
  20. Aerosol

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    Sonic (?): Coming summer of 2055...?
    PM it to me, I might take a look later!