Sonic Frontiers Thread - PS4, PS5, Xbox, Switch, PC

That seems like something they might do. I’m not sure about how much asset-sharing there is between separate development teams at SEGA, but PSO2’s Sympathy engine could work well here.

 

Probably because people just saw "oh Starfall Island looks a lot like the Aelio region of New Genesis" and assumptions and memes spread out from there.

To be entirely honest even I thought NGS was using the Hedgehog Engine 2 for the past year until I looked it up with the Frontiers footage.

 

I'm gonna be honest, I don't think SEGA give a shit lol. It's not an ideal ratio and it's disappointing that the game is being recieved like this but at the end of the day the likes are still barely just winning by 17k.

This isn't like the Ugly Sonic situation where everyone was united in one specific thing that definitely needed to change. Ugly Sonic shook the world so much that it really made Paramount shit their pants from fear because they saw it as a threat to the sales of the film.

Frontiers lashback is a mixed bag of all sorts:
- Some people don't like the artstyle
- Some people don't like the poor animation quality
- Some people don't like the general presentation of the gameplay
- Some people don't like the re-use of Forces assets
- Some people don't like the lack of momentum based physics (this one is probably exclusive to Sonic fans because I doubt "momentum based physics" are even in a non-sonic fan's lexicon)

Also it was uploaded on IGN's channel so I don't think anyone from SEGA can even see it

 

I also don't trust anyone at Sega to be tech savvy enough to install a browser extension to check the dislikes on their videos lol

 

Actually, I watched some reactions from IGN's website as well as from some general Youtubers and everyone is more or less on the same page about the game it seems. Nobody think it looks dogshit terrible, but its not looking really good either. I feel like the general reactions is that, this is not a AAA game that should be coming out in 2022 and misses the mark massively.

Its weird, because while the backlash may not be as severe, its the rare time when fans and non-fans are more or less on the same page.

 

Sonic and the secret rings would like to know your location

 

Honestly, I would assume SEGA is in this mindset of "well we have a lot of other footage to show in the next 25 days, hopefully they like the next big reveal more than the last one". I don't think they're necessarily freaking out yet, especially since the combat trailer DID fare a tiny bit better among the general public.

If they showed a NORMAL 1-2 minute gameplay trailer with a mixture of everything the game has to offer, and THAT got mass dislike-bombed, I'm sure that raises a much bigger red flag for them. But this entire month is ostensibly one big, long, 30 day trailer.

And it's just begun, so they're probably huffing massive amounts of hopium right now in the hopes that their next reveal helps turn things around a bit, not unlike many of us.

 

It has to count for something that the negative reactions are rolling in this early, right? Maybe my memory isn't serving but I don't think the various and multifaceted flaws of a Sonic game are this easily noticeable to EVERYBODY in the very first gameplay trailer, before the game is even out.

 

Sorry if I was unclear, I was suggesting that PSO2’s procedural music engine would work well in Frontiers.
I’d guess the people who think it’s on the same game engine are assuming so because of the similarities of the environment to PSO2NGS’s Halpha, and/or because NGS and Frontiers were both open world games being developed at the same time.

 

I decided to post this here instead of on Twitter because I wouldn't be able to be as thorough as I'd like.

I'm very worried.

Let's establish some points:

• The area we saw on IGN's gameplay is at the beginning of the game. We know that since that is the only one showcased in trailers and CGI cutscenes so far.
• The videos IGN will be showcasing this month are SEGA's. The writer said SEGA had let them play the game but not record any footage.
• Sonic Team hasn't released anything since Sonic Forces (November 2017). Colors Ultimate was outsourced and Origins was put together by a small separate team.
• Let's be fair and also consider SEGA completely stopped for a year during the pandemic.

OK.

SEGA's videos released by IGN take place at the starting area. We know Sonic kinda wakes up on that island and we kinda have to find clues to why and where we are. They intentionally have a very slow pace to convey some kind of "where am I" and a "is it safe to climb this structure?" feeling. This is not what bothers me.

If Sonic Team started the project Just after Forces on Nov. 17 (and discounting 1 year due to COVID) the product we're seeing has been developed for at least 3.5 years. We're seeing very empty areas with both structures loading too close to the player and structures that shouldn't be loaded so far away appearing in the sky.

Again, in footage made by the developer of the game's starting area that's been in production since 2017.
We have... what? 5 months for them to wrap it all up so the game can enter production in time to hit the shelves by November?

To make things worse, the two 'lows' of Sonic Forces are here:

1. The physics system: the game engine (not talking about visuals), while the same since Unleashed has been tweaked for each title, and some of the changes introduced in Lost World persisted in Forces. Especially notable are the two distinct levels of acceleration the Sonic object reaches and how every ramp, spring, loop and feels more automated overall.

As a reminder, just rewatch some of the platforming sections in Forces. Even though it looks quite good it feels stiff, just like what I'd expect from a fangame.
Honestly, in my mind, I'd give Forces a 5. If the controls felt solid, I'd give it a 7. Handling is simply crucial for a sonic game.

2. The object-focused level design: in past titles the levels, of course, had objects. In forces, flesh out the initial 3D scenarios we see a spam of rails, X-marked black boxes, floating platforms, and springs. Some areas in Forces consist of just objects and there are sections like this in the released previews.

What we're being shown might have a lot of innovation in the sound design and in the combat department but if the core aspects that bothered us in the past game are still there, why shouldn't we be able to voice our concerns? Why do people think 5 months will bring change to a philosophy of game development they've adopted?

I prefer to think the game is dead and then (maybe) be positively surprised in the end, than to hold out hope for no reason.

PS. if anybody here liked Forces handling and isn't bothered by the level structuring techniques they used, I don't have anything against you. I hope you like Frontiers but the game is not for me.

 

I kind of wonder what the public reaction would be if SEGA pulled a Metroid Prime 4, where Nintendo just straight up admitted "yeah the game's a bit shit so we're gonna restart development with a fresh new direction lol". I don't expect this to happen because so much work for Frontiers has obviously already been done, but it's kinda funny to think about what the reaction would be.

At this point I feel like I've made my peace with Frontiers. It's not gonna be the perfect open world Sonic game that it could be but it has some cool ideas at least.

I really hope they give a new director a chance for Sonic Frontiers 2, or whatever comes next, and really revamp Sonic's moveset from the boost era. It feels like they want to have a dramatic change for Sonic but are too afraid to fully commit to it for whatever reason.

 

I said this some pages back, but I'm willing to bet that Iizuka did mean during SXSW 2019 that development of the game did start that year.

If we go by that leaks timeline they were probably in preproduction after Forces going by the surveys people took, and then the restructure Sega went in 2018 most likely didn't help.

They started properly working on the game in 2019 and had something to show that people play tested the game by Feb. 2020 and then covid hit which we know did set them back.

So yeah, I think that idea that people think this has been in development for 4-5 years is wrong and it's closer to 3 or 3.5 years.

I know people are going to take this as me making excuses for them, but lots of industries lost a lot of resources and time during these past few years.

And if we condensed it to the entertainment industry we are seeing this in games, movies, tv shows etc etc.

 

(note that the video doesn't even use the best example, there are clips of Frontiers Sonic turning at a similar speed to Forces Sonic without decelerating up a hill, but for some reason they chose that clip)

This us a slight change I noticed and didn't really see a video documenting it until now, but imo it's a welcome little change. Forces Sonic could only turn smoothly in specific boss arenas; otherwise, any attempt to go anything other than forward is super janky and slows you down very inconsistently. I do think there are still a lot of Forces-ish elements in Frontiers' movement, but there may also be some placebo at play bc some people are saying "this is exactly the same as Forces' movement", which is demonstrably untrue. Perhaps Sonic having the same model and many of the same animations plays a role in our perception.

Edit: In general, I think a lot of things I'm seeing - both positive and negative - are the product of some sort of bias. I saw a tweet today saying the sound design was ass and they heard "stock sound effects" throughout, but I honestly mostly hear old or redone versions of typical Sonic sound effects, and Ohtani literally made a post the other day saying they put a lot of care into crafting the environmental sounds. If there are stock sound effects, it wasn't super glaring was it? The "longer quills" thing is another example, a particularly strange one because the perspective of that photo also made Sonic's hands look absolutely enormous and out-of-place, but because people wanted to see longer spines, that's what they saw and I didn't see most people mentioning "Sonic's hands look even bigger" despite the fact that the perspective made them look huge.

 

I can't help but think we'd just be in the same situation we are now, but... agonizingly longer. Optimists arguing with realists arguing with pessimists. Because that's what Sonic discourse is doomed to be until SEGA demonstrates both an unmistakable understanding of what can make for good Sonic gameplay (a question with more than one answer, of course) and a consistent ability to realize and build on that potential.

I'd love to know what Sonic looks like in the hypothetical timeline where each entry has the sort of quality and polish one can expect from any one of Nintendo's marquee franchises, or even some of SEGA's other headliners. Imagine being able to blindly trust that a Sonic game will be good and the obligatory trailer gameplay dissections just being for fun.

EDIT: And, again, I say this as someone who's still curious to see what shape it continues to take. But man do I wish we could've just had a Frontiers Direct to take in all at once instead of the month-long rollercoaster of analysis and speculation these piecemeal videos are inspiring.

 

Just want to chime in and express how excited I am for the new theme song. Who's gonna sing it? Is it heavy, or is it the opposite of that? It'd be dope if it's someone I know.

 

Just watched this video. I don't necessarily agree with everything he says but it's pretty interesting. He basically says that it's unlikely the final game will change much from what it is right now because all these systems should have already been completed

 

Besides the pop-in, yeah, even if I had to tolerate the gameplay not being what I had hoped it would be, Sonic's animation logic and interactions with things just look unfinished and unsatisfying. Wall runs only trigger on steep walls at very specific points after he's already almost glitchily running on a wall already, he only has one rail flip animation so he'll flip backwards to the left while you swap rails to the right, that video mentions how he downright stutters going up a basic incline and so forth.

They're not engine-level stuff, so they can be tuned, but for so many animations ripped from prior games, the current implementation of them seems like someone hasn't finished them yet at all. Or even straight up animations that should be there from prior games being completely absent here.

 

After reading your post I went back to SOAHcity’s article of confirmed leaks... and I saw that they updated it:
https://soahcity.com/2021/12/12/sonic-frontiers-leaks-and-timeline/

Now given Covid and Sega’s restructuring I think it’s safe to say that even IF the game was in development for 4-5 years not all that time was of equal value.

What I’m wondering now is: IF Sonic Team are given the option to have another delay, would they want that? From their perspective is this game a high quality release or are there things they would like more time to work on? As others have pointed out this isn’t like the original sonic movie design where there was one glaring issue everyone agreed on. Frontiers has multiple smaller issues that add up. I think I’d only want the game delayed if Sonic Team were themselves aware of some of these issues and felt that there was more work they could reasonably do to improve the product. If ST doesn’t see what’s wrong then frankly I don’t think they would be able to recognize what is turning fans AND general audiences off

 

The original PSO2 uses Hedgehog Engine and PSO2 New Genesis uses Hedgehog Engine 2. It probably spiraled down from that.