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Sonic Frontiers Thread - PS4, PS5, Xbox, Switch, PC

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by MykonosFan, May 27, 2021.

  1. Overlord

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    Well, that didn't take long. There's a few lines changed from the original other than just company names, as well (it references IGN previewing it for example).
     
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  2. Andrew75

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    They probably overworked here too, let’s forget 06 for a moment, forces felt X-treamly lazy and rushed with its level designs and not much upgraded over generations gameplay wise. Still had crap classic physics in 2.5 sections
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2022
  3. LucasMadword

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    Yeah, this is likely true. Forces from what I remember people saying had like a year of actual development time (instead of the multiple years the gap was between games). Frontiers seems to have had a longer development time, but even then it does seem more ambitious generally, so I'm sure they're still overworked (especially as Sonic Team seems to be a smaller team generally than most AAA developers, at least from what I know? - especially if they're trying to aim for AAA quality for Frontiers). So although we shouldn't excuse some of the shoddiness, we should also be mindful of those working on the game.
     
  4. Laura

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    I showed this to my brother. He likes Sonic but in a normal amount. Played the classic games and Adventures. A bit of Gens and Mania. That's it.

    But he was making similar complaints to us. Lack of momentum, pop-in, strange aesthetic, rigidity of Boost controls.

    It's easy to think it's just us hardcore fans circle jerking about this stuff but it's not the case. People like him notice this stuff.

    Just thought it was interesting.
     
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  5. Andrew75

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    They need to see our opinions. Anyhow , I’m sure the community will end up fixing the physics or making the adjustments necessary in the end.
    Or….maybe sega should just cancel like they did with
    xtreme. <———(Sarcasm) May god Rest it’s poor soul.


    Edit: but yeah we only seen what looks to be the main hub world? Perhaps there are levels with better layouts that are accessed or flow off of this area?
    At this point we can only dream and wish for the game being better since we not seeing enough of it. First impressions are very important, and I think sega blew it with how the community is reacting.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2022
  6. Flare

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    But Sega are determining the teams and scopes around their products, like other companies out there. That's what irks me, not the products they put out, but the fact we have to take into consideration internal company scoping and budget procedures to praise Sonic Team.
     
  7. foXcollr

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    Right, but again... that's not their point. You begged a question and SystemsReady responded pretty concisely.

    They never said "Frontiers doesn't look bad", so responding "Frontiers looks really bad" to their rebuttal is sort of changing the subject. The question was whether or not the game's technical issues are addressable. I understand everyone here is passionate about the games, but not every response is a broad sweeping statement about whether or not the game is good. The 06 analogy is just flawed knowing how much we know about that game's development cycle, that's all.

    I occupy the same camp as Systems, honestly. I don't think there necessarily will be an overhaul of any of the game's systems or mechanics any time soon, but I do have higher hopes that finer technical issues can still be ironed out, because unlike 06 this game actually works as far as we know and the devs don't need to spend the next 6 months literally patching it together with duct tape to fix major game-breaking bugs and crashes.
     
  8. LucasMadword

    LucasMadword

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    Nowhere did I praise Sonic Team, I've been fairly critical of Sonic Frontiers so far.

    But we also have to keep in mind that calling Sonic Team lazy, or insulting their ability, isn't helping the discussion (that's not directed at you, nor directed at anyone in this thread in particular, that's just in general - though, there's been quite a few SonicTubers that don't understand that fact). We can point out flaws, and hope that they take some into consideration, but let's not attack Sonic Team as if it's one singular entity. I'm sure many members of staff do genuinely care, and they've been screwed over by management, as is so often the case. I've also seen pointing fingers at specific staff members (SonicTubers again, typical!), which is just a bit of a douchey thing to do as they're just people doing their job the best they can, at the end of the day.

    That fact doesn't change anything about how naff and janky the game looks, but still haha
     
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  9. Andrew75

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    I guess my main point was that i dont think we will see any of our
    To clarify my first post, now that im on the pc vs texting from broken phone screen,
    kind of wish i didnt use 06 as an example, its more like what we see in trailers is what we will get, be it generations, forces, 06 or whatnot.
    The sonic movie had so much bad backlash they reworked the character, i kind of doubt we will see that here.
    The main thing i was trying to communicate was that, we wont see any fixes for the issues mentioned above, like the mechanical and somewhat automated looking gameplay, lacking proper slope physics or wonky animation mixing. It is just the way the game was designed and we wont see the root gameplay changed. The same goes for the over use of the random looking sky rails.
    It looks really hard to make sonic work coherently with an open world environment when it comes to gameplay planning. Sure, everything looks like its randomly placed, but in reality it probably is not and has an intended flow to it. But the way its all scattered about seems disorienting and or objects could be easily missed, and perhaps some aspects are really overused. ( like the grind rails)

    Edit: For now, and for me, with impressions of the first video, the game still looks like a wonky mess, be it the poor choice of gameplay mechanics, and or shotty looking object placement or bad animation blending... Maybe my opinion will change when the final game releases.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2022
  10. MontiP

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    As someone who, for a while, used to be pessimistic towards Sonic Team during Forces' development and release, this is the stance I eventually ended up taking and this attitude that some fans have upsets me to no end (i.e. "this fan game is better than anything Sonic Team ever did", "Sonic Team/Sega should take notes", etc.).
    I rewatched today a video that discussed and criticised the "Sega hire this man" mentality among the community and one of the issues it talked about was specifically this one (and not just for Sonic, but for other games as well). Particularly, he mentioned that, when Forces first released, Izuka was largely put to blame for the game's flaws and shortcomings, if only initially; when it was acknowledged that Kishimoto was the one who directed it, all blame shifted to him.
     
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  11. Snowbound

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    I genuinely feel bad for lower level members of Sonic Team who work their ass off on these games only to have little (or no) creative input on the overall project.

    Kishimoto‘s record with Sonic is not good but I also can’t fully chastise him as I don’t know what kind of pressures and edicts he’s under from Sega management.

    None of this is to say that the game shouldn’t be criticized: it absolutely should be. I’m also not trying to say that Kishimoto shouldn’t be criticized. I just agree that it is wrong to call people we don’t know lazy when we don’t know the full story. I understand the desire to call Sonic Team lazy since these apparent flaws (poor controls, empty world, button mashy combat) were ID’d in the initial leaks from like 2019 without significant improvements but I suspect that working for Sega during a pandemic was living hell. To be fair tho I can’t say if these flaws are as bad as they appear until the game comes out.
     
  12. foXcollr

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    The average SonicTuber or Twitter weirdo at least needs to understand that this isn't a perfectly collaborative process. It's like a lot of jobs, really. You can't yell at the cashier at a chain restaurant because your food sucked... but you also can't be sure the General Manager is responsible. There's a possibility the Regional Manager is forcing every store to follow some bullshit order. Maybe it's a new chainwide policy. Maybe the District Manager is to blame. Or maybe it's one specific Shift Manager at that specific store who just has no clue what they're doing. Maybe there's a supply shortage and they don't have the exact cut of steak you want, or they can't serve your favorite menu item the way you like because of a product recall or a late shipment. But the LAST person you would blame is the cashier, who makes less money than all their superiors and is responsible for literally 0% of the decision-making.
     
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  13. Snowbound

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    I think we can all agree that some sort of change needs to happen at Sega. As outsiders however I don’t think we have the knowledge to ID who or what is at fault. Kishimoto is an easy target since most of his Sonic games kinda suck. but for all we know the problem isn’t him, it’s management above him. What I do know is that Sonic deserves better. THIS is why I (& many others) wanted a Mania 2 so bad: we KNOW that the Mania team can put out a good product if given enough time. On the other hand we have no idea what Sega will do themselves... but we know that it’s probably not great
     
  14. Mana

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    I know the game isn't done yet but I mean it's coming out in November. For a game this large the last 6 months usually aren't built working on the core, it's focused on polishing it up and making the open world flow as well as they can.

    Maybe I'll be wrong and they make an amazing game, I want so badly to be wrong, but time isn't on there side. And frankly I heard and used the "it's not ready yet" excuse when Boom looked like mid during E3 2014 and when Forces was looking like mid during E3 2017 (I've said that game is fine in the past but I want more than fine after 5 years) and I got burned both times.

    I'll say again that I want to be wrong and this game is a masterpiece but I have to go by what I've seen and so far it's not looking good.
     
  15. Snub-n0zeMunkey

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    At times it can be easy to forget but this really is true and it makes me wish I could be a fly on the wall at Sonic Team just to know what the general morale is. How do developers at SEGA feel when they get assigned to work on Sonic? There must be some kind of nervous trepidation knowing what comes with the territory (crunch, overwork, undue stress)

    Could be a case where the game that exists now is completely different from what was there in the early planning stages, or on the other hand maybe what exists now was only ever meant to be an early test build but strict deadlines from upper management forced the devs to proceed with whatever they had at the time and so the gameplay was never given a chance to evolve beyond the early framework.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2022
  16. Interesting, indeed.

    I had sent it to a sister of mine. Only 12 years old. Didn't catch all that, but to my amusement, she did catch how simplistic the puzzle section looks. "That's it?" were her exact words.
     
  17. corneliab

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    Despite what's been shown I do hope that the game still ends up being good. It will be a real waste if it isn't.

    It's a small thing I know, but I do like that Sonic's standing pose is his classic one from the old games. That's something that I've wanted to be a thing in the 3D games since Super Smash Bros. Brawl. a very small thing

    Edit: Oh, didn't play either Lost World or Forces.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2022
  18. MontiP

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    I believe that idle pose was already present in Lost World and Forces.
     
  19. Dark Sonic

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    ^ yup, but hey now it's in a game where you're in 3d for more than 5 seconds.
    I'll give them some benefit of the doubt I believe they've confirmed this is the 1st world of sorts. The puzzles could become more complicated.

    But they also might not because pretty sure I thought that initial Forces gameplay trailer was showing off its level 1, but no that was level 15/30.

    I will say that even if what we saw yesterday wasn't perfect by far, to me it still looks more fun than Forces, Lost World, and even Colors. I just like that finally you can explore. I was so sick of the same old rehash again and again, but at least this doesn't seem to be that. I'll give em props for that, no chemical plants in sight (although a Twitter post I saw pointed out some of those metal platforms reuse color altered floor textures from Forces Death Egg, so there still is of course some reuse). And also I'll give them props for delaying this at least to try to improve it. If it's like this now who knows what it was like before.

    But I looked back at some of those 4chan leaks, I think it's safe to say the earliest ones are legit, right down to mentioning collecting an orb at the top of those towers and the little rock fellas. If that's the case we can expect the following:
    • Colors Ultimate esq customizations
    • 7 different areas, I think we're seeing like the 1st island
    • Each area unlocks a cyberspace esq level that plays more like Colors and Forces but apparently less 2D and no wisps fingers crossed
    • Towns with human npcs
    • In the open world you have a health bar but rings restore health
    • Decent amount of enemy variety
    • Combat is simplistic (shocker right)
    • Skill tree
    One claim I found interesting, you don't actually boost in the open world, that seems to be an effect that happens if you build up enough speed. You can boost in the cyberspace levels apparently. Two pretty accurate sounding early leaks mentioned this, and that was kind of the impression I got from the video. Because normally Sonic has a boost aura and can air boost. In this footage there's just a small sound wave effect and he just air dashes forward like in Unleashed. And its not like this game isn't devoid of effects and auras so I'm starting to think boosting might not be as prevalent as we think, even if this game was built off that framework potentially and as a result of that and a crappy player it just looks off. I can also think of a few reasons why they wouldn't even want you to boost in the open world, and they mostly revolve around the fact its broken as hell and would be veryyyyy abusable. And the boost has always translated to basically 0 combat, having it there would ruin that. Without the assistance of extreme automation and invisible walls, the boost becomes a problem pretty fast... so save it for cyberspace I guess where they have more control again :eng99:

    I want to see someone who knows what they're doing play this. Not that there aren't legit concerns to be had but idk, strikes me as odd they'd delay it and parade it all over IGN all month if it was a huge steamer. If that's the case why not just drop it like a hot turd like they did with TSR and Forces?
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2022
  20. foXcollr

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    I mean I wouldn't blame you for thinking this is the 1st world, it would actually make sense this time because it's the grassy / "green" world. The narrator to the IGN footage also mentioned Sonic finds himself stranded here, so I think that's all but confirmation that it's the first island.

    And please, more people ask your little relatives for their Sonic opinions. This is good. I like this.
     
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