Sonic Frontiers coming to PS4, PS5, Xbox, Switch, PC (Holiday 2022, from Sonic Team)

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by MykonosFan, May 27, 2021.

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  1. Crimson Neo

    Crimson Neo

    Loopin' around. Member
    I kinda have hopes for the game (but also have my fears), but yeah.. I will maintain my foot on the ground for now.

    And I NEED to see gameplay if Sonic Team's really taking that serious.
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2022
  2. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

    I hear what you're saying, but I have to disagree.

    He was a lead designer for both of the storybook games, which weren't good. I'm not entirely sure what a "designer" was for those games, but the general level and gameplay design leaves a lot to be desired in both cases.

    He reprised that role as well as took on the directors role for Colours and Forces. I genuinely don't know how controversial or popular this is but Colours isn't good. It's not bad, but it's incredibly tepid. It's focused on being unremarkable to play. Strip the game of its fantastic aesthetics and music , and you're left with a playable and functional but ultimately dry game that does nothing for the platforming genre nor Sonic games specifically (see the entirety of Colours' Game Land). The level design is bland and Sonic controls poorly, with the double jump basically a necessity to rectify the bunk jumping physics. He handles like a tank and the homing attack is broken. The range of it varies from moment to moment and making it lock on to the target you want is almost impossible. Why? Because the homing attack in Kishimoto's game is based on the camera more than Sonic, and he won't target an enemy 2 feet away from him if its just barely off screen. This really sucks when you're trying to chain homing attacks together and know that as enemy is there, but Sonic ignores it because the camera or the enemy has moved half an inch between your homing attacks. Sonic won't change target easily if you turn him after the reticule has appeared, and will instead stay locked on to the first target he picked. He'll also lock on to things at the other end of the screen even when they seem too far away. It's not normally a problem in Colours because of its level design (except in Aquarium Park 6), but Forces has the homing attack function the exact same way and it becomes a big problem there. Everyone who's played Forces is aware of how difficult it is to choose your path through the homing attack chains of Egg Gate and Luminous Forest. This is particularly egregious to me because Unleashed HD and Generations don't have this issue (nor do any of the older 3D games without a lock-on reticule). Kishimoto's games choose to function this way. It's bad design choices in the face of much better alternatives that have already been displayed.

    I don't mean to get too hung up on the issue of the homing attack. It's just one of many potential examples of Kishimoto's games getting things very, very wrong, and it's easier to articulate that many others. My point is however, that his games don't control all that well and seem to be designed around controlling poorly instead of being made to control well.

    The problem of "doing it worse than the example" extends to Classic Sonic; executed well in Generations but horribly in Forces. Level design in both Colours and Forces further reduces 3D sections to wide and empty corridors more so that in any of Sonic game. Most of the gameplay is 2D with an emphasis on very run-of-the-mill 2D platforming that disregards Sonic's physics. The boost level design styles and controls in Unleashed and Generations are leagues above those in Colours and Forces. Forces is fundamentally like Colours 2.

    Lost World was a mess of bad ideas and bad design. There's just so much wrong with it. I feel like the creative vision and the very direction of of the game was destined for failure the moment that they decided on the control scheme, physics and level design style. All early conceptual choices the soured any potential that rhe project might have had.

    I don't really want to do a deep-dive right now, and I'll admit that not all of the problems are exclusive to Kishimoto's games. Some of them are exclusive to his works however however, and they are all accentuated in his games. With Forces and Colours, he succeeded in creating incredibly uninteresting Sonic gameplay that didn't push boundaries or excel in any area. They are playable, they are functional, they are not outright bad. But they're incredibly bland. They're not actually good, rather they're just okay.

    So yeah... All Kishimoto has done is steer the series towards stagnation and stale direction by being overly safe. His game design choices have resulted in the tamest and most uninteresting of gameplay imaginable, but with pretty set-dressing. I'm familiar with his work and I'm not a fan. I don't trust him when it comes to game design when and that worries me with regards to Frontiers.
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2022
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  3. Damn, chill- you're not gonna bleed and die cause someone's optimistic about Sonic, geez...
    I mean, fair, but still, why get so worked up over something so trivial in the grand scheme of things? Not to be rude, but cussing someone out over Sonic isn't something I personally would be proud of.
    Even though that's what I see people doing to countless younger Sonic fans on a near daily basis.

    I cannot begin to count how many times the "jaded 90s Sonic kids" have basically told newer fans that their experiences are invalid since "they didn't watch Sonic 'die' the same way we did" (not just here, but on the internet at large, especially youtube). And man, I dunno what kind of special these guys have to be to not only hold a fictional anthropomorphic animal in such high regard, but also to go so far out of their way to make it explicitly clear that younger people "don't enjoy him the way they did" and then make them feel like shit for it with little to no regard for how they enjoy this trivial past time.

    We all played the exact same games. The Sonic 06 I played is the same Sonic 06 you all played. I honestly dunno why the older crowd feels the need to project their experiences onto everyone else so much, when I'd assume most of them are aware that it's a futile venture.
    Does that include getting angry at people who aren't miserable all the time too?

    Btw, I feel like I should clarify, besides Sid Starkiller's temper, I'm not addressing anyone in particular. All I'm saying is that someone expressed optimism for Sonic Frontiers, and like half of this thread's participants turned into wild beasts, which is sadly par for the course for this community.

    I like Sonic Lost World. I thought Forces was pretty alright, all things considered. I played the exact same games the older crowd did. In fact, I grew up with the same games they did too- the old genesis classics. But apparently, my age and my positive outlook towards the future completely invalidate the time I've spent with this blue boy, as trivial as it is.

    I'm sure I'm gonna get like 3 quotes within the next hour, but I don't care. There's not much I alone can do here, so I'm just gonna watch the building burn instead. If any "jaded old Sonic fan" tries to tell me that it is true that the opinions and optimism of younger fans don't matter or are somehow "irrelevant" or "enabling Sonic Team" in some fashion- well, ironically, that's the most childish thing you can do.
  4. This got started because someone said that Sonic fans are being "too cynical" soooo, take that as what you will.

    But whatever, I'm not indulging in this anymore. Whatever happens, happens. If the game is good, then great. If its another mediocre title, then we just move on.

    There are much better game franchises I'd rather waste my time on than Sonic atm.
  5. Wildcat


    I’m 37 and grew up playing the Genesis games.

    Honestly I love Sonic more than any other franchise (some are close) but I personally do not think he’s drastically declined between now and then or since Heroes. Heroes is actually one of my least favorites.

    I can see flaws and have been disappointed by certain things but that’s normal for everything. Everything goes through slumps or quality of varying degrees.

    I just do not think the games have been as horrible as people make them out to be. Mania was really good of course but I think others have been good too.

    I do not think people are “out of touch” or anything like that. I just I think it’s hyperbole to say they’ve had a horrible decline since whatever year.
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  6. John Chrysler

    John Chrysler

    It is really depressing that the fact that people are getting this emotional over an ENTERTAINMENT PRODUCT that hasn't even been released yet just goes to show that these people have made Sonic their identity which is baffeling. The absolute state of these people man.
  7. Sid Starkiller

    Sid Starkiller

    Virginia, USA
    Paying off student loans
    Who said I was proud of it? I don't like that I have anger issues, but that alone doesn't stop me from having them.

    It is ALWAYS OK for someone to say "I disagree with your opinion". But that's not what he said. What he said was somewhere between "your opinion is wrong" and "you're lying about how you feel". He basically said that people are CHOOSING to be pessimistic about this game...JUST BECAUSE. Even when confronted with VALID reasons why someone is pessimistic...I'm just wrong, because I disagree with his OBVIOUSLY RIGHT opinion about the state of this series.

    It doesn't matter that I think Lost World was complete and utter garbage, and a real shame that Sonic Team was actually iterating on and refining a formula for three games only to throw it all away...I disagree with him and am therefore wrong.

    It doesn't matter that I can't be assed to play Forces because all the footage I've seen of it makes it look 90+% automated, and therefore a waste of my time...I disagree with him and am therefore wrong.

    Tell me that wouldn't frustrate you. Tell me you wouldn't get angry that someone calls me (not specifically, but still) out for not being blindly excited for a game we have seen 0 gameplay footage of, and know so little about, and when you explain REPEATEDLY (this isn't the first time this had happened over just Frontiers, and I unfortunately doubt it will be the last) WHY you feel that way, only to be told "Nope, fuck you, you're wrong, try again". It's not even about the damn game anymore at this point, to me it feels like he has to invalidate my and other opinions just to justify his own. That's a problem.

    "But that doesn't justify getting so ang-"

    Doesn't matter, I did, and now it's done.
  8. Aerosol


    Not here. Moderator
    Not where I want to be.
    Sonic (?): Coming summer of 2055...?
    Wow we're having this argument again.

    Does anyone want to talk about Frontiers? Or should we just lock this till there's more news?

    Actually yea. Let's do that.
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