Sonic Frontiers coming to PS4, PS5, Xbox, Switch, PC (Holiday 2022, from Sonic Team)

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by MykonosFan, May 27, 2021.

  1. RikohZX

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    I still say Sonic should've gone a cel-shaded or anime style route of design to continue Uekawa and the Riders opening's style and pizazz, rather than grow more and more detailed, dial it back, and then detail it again. I do like that Frontiers has some exaggerated animation, it's just fun to see that again, but for a character that's meant to be so solid a blue, seeing little "ridges" on his body attempting to be fur detail just looks all kinds of wrong and always has.

    When his shoes still have a shiny, solid color look to them, it clashes when you try to make Sonic look more "realistic" and messes with the overall iconic color profile.
     
  2. Shaddy the guy

    Shaddy the guy

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    Uekawa yes, Riders no. I think Production IG's style worked good for that game's opening and for its 2D promo art, but I'd want something a little less stylized for the series as a whole. It just needs to be more cartoony. Get some black outlines and flat colors on there. Not only will it blend classic and modern aesthetics together way better, it would lighten the load on intense rendering for designers and consoles alike, relying on bold imagery and color use instead of rigorous detail. This is why I was never, ever upset at Lost World's aesthetic, because even if you didn't like it, its usage of colors and shapes undeniably popped more than something like...well, Frontiers.
     
  3. Josh

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    Ehhh, I think at least half the reason the Adventure redesign made a poor first impression on me when I was a kid was because the first thing I saw was the 2D art, and he was so over-exaggerated and bendy that he looked ridiculous. The modern art never really started to appeal to me until Uekawa and co dialed that back around the time of Mega Collection.

    upload_2022-6-29_10-1-44.png

    (And you thought YOU were Ancient? Buddy, I'm so Ancient I developed Sonic 1 for the Master System! :V)
     
  4. Vertette

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    Doesn't help that it doesn't feel like the devs ever sat down to decide what 3D Sonic's identity exactly is. It doesn't need to be NSMB tier inflexible, but some established identity will at least help with the reception to new games. Right now you just can't expect what a new Sonic game will be like (except buggy at launch).

    Arguably boost is 3D Sonic's identity now, though I'm not even 100% sure if they'll stick with it after Frontiers.
     
  5. Blue Spikeball

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    Honestly, the one thing I miss about the Dreamcast era design is the shape of the head quills.

    I feel Modern Sonic's long quills look better when they're droopier. Here's a comparison:
    [​IMG]

    Ditto for Super Sonic. I'm not big on how the current games make his quills look like regular Sonic's but bent upwards. The pre-Unleashed look was better IMO:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2022
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  6. sulphurmarketing

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    I may seem like like an Adventure-fan, but the Adventure 2 model just looks so much better than the current models. There's something so stiff about Sonic's complete upright posture and long limbs. I just wish they modernized it like the other commenters were saying.
     
  7. Josh

    Josh

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    Again, I'll be the contrarian I guess and say that at least as far as that comparison goes, I like the modern models better. But I generally prefer shorter spines and rounder proportions on Sonic, so that makes sense. The noodly SA2 model with the giant head, and others like it, always look like he's top-heavy to me, like he's in danger of toppling over.

    I'll give you Super Sonic though, that unique spine shape was awesome.

    That being said, I *have* always loved the Dreamcast SA1 model, and again, I think my first impression of the redesign would've been a lot better if the 2D art had been more like it. If we're talking about hearkening back to Adventure, this is how I'd prefer it to be:

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. foXcollr

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    oooooh man, imagining a Riders-style Sonic universe makes me very happy

    Also I agree that a halfway point between 06 humans and Unleashed humans looks really good for Sonic. I feel like the actual human renders will look quite different from Sonic Amateur Games Expo (who seems like she isn't a regular human at all), and I'm hoping they're that happy middle ground... but I really like Sage's design as well. Isn't it also cute that her big robot is a giant doggo with lots of creepy, individually moving eyeballs on its right arm? Adorable!

    Speaking of humans though, this does raise the question of what Eggman is gonna look like? I doubt they'd be daring enough to majorly change his design again, but it's probably a given that the other human will look somewhat like he does
     
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  9. Angel X

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    This reminds me of Sonic Movie 1, it was said that they had done the ugly Sonic design on purpose to get attention, then change it for the better and have the approval of the fans.
    This thing might be true, but I think it's a very strange marketing strategy...
     
  10. RDNexus

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    I can agree on your view of the SA1 model, but that 2D sheet of the 3D model feels a bit weird to me.
    But yeah, SA1 models felt like a modernized take on the classic designs, they could've stayed that way.

    Take these images as example:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2022
  11. Vertette

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    Ah, the good old days when artists stuck a texture with a few lines on a sphere and pretended it was a hand.

    I don't have a super strong preference between flaccid or hard quills, but I did like how SA2 Sonic had jiggle physics to his quills. I wouldn't mind if they brought that back but made it a bit more subtle.
     
  12. Shaddy the guy

    Shaddy the guy

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    Just to be clear, this is absolutely not true in any way whatsoever. Not only does Tyson Hesse hang around here and has spoken about being contacted to help save the film, the first movie burned millions of dollars and countless man-hours (bigtime crunch, I have to imagine) on reanimating the film, a couple in-progress shots from the film and plenty of merchandise featuring the old design were leaked, and some(?) of that merch even released (I think? others feel free to correct me). Not only would doing what they did on purpose be a colossally terrible idea that absolutely would not give the movie better press than it would have received if it had simply looked good to start with, it would be such a drain on resources for a massive amount of work to purposefully go in the garbage that not even the craziest of businessmen would sign off on it.

    The point is, no. I'm not trying to be antagonistic here, I'm not trying to single you out as having done anything wrong, but this information needs to stop being spread. It not only places way too much faith in the people who were dumb enough to approve the original Sonic design being smart enough to capitalize on its badness, it undercuts the blood, sweat and tears that went into making the first movie as shockingly-acceptable as it was.

    Now, that's not to say I think it's impossible anything like this could happen -- it's just going to be in the future when some company is inspired by the Sonic conspiracy theory, and is smarter than to burn millions of dollars on the shitty version first. Frankly, if that Chip and Dale movie with Ugly Sonic in it had come out a year or two later, that's exactly the film I would've expected to do it. But nah, maybe instead it'll be the next smurfs or alvin and the chipminks or what have you.

    As for Frontiers, while SEGA's marketing has obviously been very poor, I don't think it's hard to understand at all. The game has a mysterious tone, so they're trying to keep information about it bottled up.

    Just imagine yourself as SEGA's vision of the ideal Sonic fan -- starry-eyed and waiting with baited breath, desperate to catch every fleck of spit that drops from Sonic's lip as he spouts a masterful line like "Green Hill's lookin' a lot more like Sand Hill!", or "I'm totally calling him McNosehair!", and you hear, all of a sudden, that a new Sonic game is coming out! Gasp! You dash to your computer, and see a gracious sight -- Sonic, none other than the blue hedgehog himself, is running through a forest! He's never done that before! And this time he runs in a circle! Truly, masterful work has been done to make this product unique.

    Your mouth is just as wet as your pants, by this point. But things aren't over just yet. Sonic's circle becomes...my god, IT BECOMES...a rune of some sort! Shock and terror! Sonic is doing something new! All hands on deck, it's gonna get crazy in here! You spend the next six months spewing long philosophical diatribes about how this is Sonic Adventure 3 as you truly imagined it, only for SEGA to surprise you with nothing you could have possibly imagined or read on any website!

    The game is open-world! Stop the presses, feed the cat and punch your therapist, it's like nothing you've ever seen! Green fields to run through! We are all completely blown away by this stunning revelation. Another six months go by, and you have to keep buying new pairs of underwear because the ones from before have become rock-solid with crust. Finally, finally, SEGA promises to release new footage.

    GASP! New mechanics such as grind rails and the homing attack! Sonic can climb walls! And there are purple coins, which no recent 3D platformer has featured. You applaud SEGA for their efforts, no game has ever achieved this. And, no way...there's more to come, for the WHOLE MONTH? You can hardly contain your yadda yadda yadda it's fucking six in the morning I can't write this shit you get the idea.

    The point is, SEGA has been showing this thing off bit by bit because they fundamentally don't understand (or at least, refuse to contend with) Sonic's divided reputation on the internet, and believe that Sonic fans will just eat up anything and ask for more. And, to my credit, I mostly do do that, but my body has been fully tenderized by this series, I don't think I'm the norm. I'm sure they thought that fans learning that Sonic can in fact run around fighting enemies would be enough for most of the month, and for some games, it might've been. It's in large part due to how much we already knew that these non-surprises give us so many questions.
     
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  13. PicklePower

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    Why does the Sonic universe need new characters every other game?
     
  14. Blue Spikeball

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    To keep things fresh.
     
  15. Snub-n0zeMunkey

    Snub-n0zeMunkey

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    it probably seems like such a nitpick but I really miss the way Sonic's muzzle used to wrap around his face like SA2's model. I feel like Unleashed is when they stopped doing this for some reason.

    The youtuber Chaomix did a good comparison of this:
    upload_2022-6-29_14-33-45.png
    upload_2022-6-29_14-34-8.png
    When you look at these newer renders you can see his muzzle casting a shadow over his eyes and it drives me crazy because it looks like it's about to fall off of his face lol

    It just doesn't really look like an organic part of his face tbh
    upload_2022-6-29_14-38-8.jpeg
     
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  16. Angel X

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    I have never believed this theory.
    That's why I wrote that this marketing strategy was strange, because in addition to wasting money on reanimating and advertising, as you said before, you don't give a good impression.
    I would tend to show the best part of the product, not the worst!
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2022
  17. Flare

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    Don't most game series do this though? Is it that bad?

    But companies don't think they are doing it wrong haha. It's not that they are purposely showing the wrong things or wanting to waste money. It's just sometimes the goals of the team didn't align with the users and they often learn for that mistake. I don't think Sonic Team / Sega, knowing what the fan base are like and the feedback of previous games were thinking 'Oh lets do it the wrong way'...

    I genuinely believe that they wanted to showcase the slower side of Sonic, look how he is to control when he's just walking. He still has moments of boosts, but we are slowing it down to show how we are refining his movement. And combat, this isn't just homing attack, let's slow it down to show what he can also do.

    I'm not saying they achieved it, just I don't think the goal was to show the "worst part" first.

    Could you imagine if they showed the cyber stages first? It would be complaints about why are they showing us him running through Green Hill again?
     
  18. Angel X

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    In short, there is always something to complaints :D
     
  19. I don’t mean to keep driving us off topic, but on the subject of human characters in the Sonic universe, I always wanted to know why the decision was made to bring in real world settings and people for SA1. My only guess is that they figured with the new horsepower of the Dreamcast, it could be convincingly done, but it begs the question- just because they could do it, why did they choose to do it?

    Then they flat out doubled down on it with SA2, making GUN an actual gameplay and story element, and then that lead to everyone’s favorite humans from 06. Now things got way better with Unleashed, but all that stems from that one decision to incorporate real world locales and people in SA1. In retrospect I think that was a big mistake- Shadow the Hedgehog and 06 could have been spared the reputations of complete dumpster fires if they removed those elements. So again, why? Why did they push the realistic stuff so damn hard back then?

    To tie this back into Frontiers, Sage does not look too human to me. It’s a perfectly adequate design and fits well enough in the Sonic universe IMO.
     
  20. Xiao Hayes

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    Does SEGA anagram acting friendly to Sonic at the beginning to show itself as his enemy later count as self-parody? Because that's acknowledging Sonic's history and continuity in its sincerest form.