Sonic Frontiers coming to PS4, PS5, Xbox, Switch, PC (Holiday 2022, from Sonic Team)

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by MykonosFan, May 27, 2021.

  1. foXcollr

    foXcollr

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    I haven't seen Green Hill 7 or a Sky Sanctuary 3 personally, but let me know when those come out. The next installment in the Green Hill franchise is gonna be insane
     
  2. Londinium

    Londinium

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    Everything after Green Hill 2 sucks, they never should've changed the saturation of the dark green stripes

    Also the Sky Sanctuary franchise was never good to begin with
     
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  3. Simon A.C. Martin

    Simon A.C. Martin

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    There's a combination of factors here though:
    • Gameplay proven to be tiresome - homing attack chains, automated gameplay, etc
    • Reuse of assets to degrees which may or may not be appropriate for the new title
    • Aping other games (see BOTW bots/towers/etc) without a coherent structure and making it really bloody obvious that they're copying the ideas
    • Style clashes (is a BOTW style overworld really not a clash with how Sonic looks and works?)
    To me, Frontiers looks like a mish mash of so many different issues on so many different levels (pun unintended). Sorry, this game isn't going to be for me. I will watch with interest from the sidelines with some popcorn but I have a strong feeling we have been here before and it's not going to set the world alight.
     
  4. lupinsmask

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    Wasn't impressed by the open zone despite the improvements from the summer games fest video, still has those the pointless dash pads, just-in-the-air-rails-and-platforms that don't even look like the surrounding area like the classic games did and now the sky sanctuary leak has me in the "wait in for a humble bundle sale" zone. Wouldn't have any issue with Frontiers being a stealth "Generations 3" if the zones/stages weren't already used by Generations/Forces.
     
  5. You know what, all of this is fair and I forget that Sega's internal staff work on more than just Sonic.

    But it doesn't change that we're still going to locations from over ten years ago. Even if I understand the practicality of it, it still sucks from a consumer perspective because it feels like the series isn't really progressing much.
     
  6. DefinitiveDubs

    DefinitiveDubs

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    I think some Sonic fans have a problem with putting value in the games for what they try to be, rather than what they actually accomplish. They see games like Adventure as being good for their ambition, rather than for their execution. Similarly, they have an issue with excusing problems based on "Oh they didn't have time" or "Oh they didn't have the budget". What does it matter what happened behind the scenes? What does it matter whether they had more of an opportunity for more original ideas or not? It doesn't change what we're seeing right in front of us. It doesn't change the product we're looking at. I wish some of these fans would start seeing the games from the perspective of a consumer who's being asked to pay $60 after a sequel hasn't come out in over 5 years, rather than try to see it from the developers' perspective, especially when they're not fucking game developers.
     
  7. kyasarintsu

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    Practical or not, it's pretty lame to be going back to established locations. Places like Chemical Plant and Sky Sanctuary represent important and specific things, and I don't like seeing them haphazardly used yet again.
    Like, at least when Mario games reuse themes it's something generic. We're not getting specifically Delfino Plaza or Bob-omb Battlefield.
     
  8. Pengi

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    It does suck. But it's not because the artists can't think of anything original. It's almost always the team making the most of the limitations they're working under.

    Sonic Mania, Sonic Forces and Team Sonic Racing were all budget titles with heavy asset reuse. It's quicker and more efficient to polish up existing models and sprites than it is to start from scratch. Even then, Sonic Mania and Team Sonic Racing were both delayed. I recall an interview with Iizuka several months ago, where he mentioned that Sonic Frontiers was originally supposed to be released during Sonic's 30th anniversary year.

    One could conclude that Sega are cheap, their schedules are unrealistic, and the Sonic devs are trying to do the best they can under those conditions, but frequently bite off more than they can chew.
     
  9. Yash

    Yash

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    I totally agree with this - I've never seen eye to eye with the fandom that elevates games like 06 over something like Colors simply because the former is more "ambitious." Maybe it has a more cinematic scope and I can appreciate that in its own right, but to suggest it's a better product than something that aims lower (in some ways) but is very competently executed? Nah, that ain't it, fam. I understand preferring it over like, Forces which I would say is technically better but doesn't do much to stand out, but at that point you're just splitting hairs and I really don't care which one is "less bad."

    Post-Genesis era, the best intersection of ambition and execution is still Sonic Unleashed. The highs rank among the series' peak while the lows are merely boring, but functional. I'd play the worst Werehog stage over the best Sonic stage in 06 any day.
     
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  10. MH MD

    MH MD

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    I mean i already cited Yakuza as an example, but of the upcoming games, BOTW2 seemed to be a better comparison

    However it seems i am wrong and there was some big controversy i was not aware of
    But regardless, the game will release, and will be highly regarded as well, even with any criticism people have for it, i don't think anyone actually doubt it will remain a quality game and will most likely improve on a lot of aspects from 1, and even if it was a worse game overall, it won't actually be considered a bad or mid game
     
  11. foXcollr

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    I never really was a fan of this dichotomy between the Massive Hopium (tm) Sonic fans, who excuse anything and everything bad in a game with the "but that one part was fun and the rest had potential" card, VS the Hysterical Catastrophizing (tm) Sonic fans, who chronically rage-post about something, find out what they were angry about wasn't true, move the goalpost, and proceed to chronically rage post about something else. Perpetual hopium makes the fanbase seem delusional, and perpetual anger makes the fanbase seem unpleasable.


    It feels very weird to exist in a place where I just want to see the damn action stages and figure out if I'm gonna enjoy playing the product they're selling. I would just like to evaluate the game based on some actual tangible stuff and not base that evaluation off of somebody's pent up anger or somebody's idea of the franchise's "potential". Kudos to the folks here who make informative and / or constructive posts, I enjoy reading about theories and genuine dissections of what we're seeing.


    Edit: the word "hysterical" is probably hyperbolic and comes across as rude, but I think you get what I mean
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2022
  12. SystemsReady

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    here's an unpopular opinion: I think the dungeons in BOTW suck and are the worst part of the game. :V They're super samey and ugly and the progression feels so off because there's nothing to get in there except for Progress, so it's just a damn slog. Oh and somehow they managed to make 3D maps impossible to understand from a visual perspective because they're far too cluttered to make heads or tails of them.

    yeah like, MegaTen is reused assets duct-taped together in every game and those games are still excellent RPGs. I didn't see anyone dinging Persona 5 for using the same personas and designs as Personas 3 and 4 for a good number of its roster. Speaking of - Persona 4 was largely reused assets from Persona 3, including artwork, models, and animations wholesale, and Persona 3 reused assets in a similar fashion from the other PS2 MegaTens. Devil Survivor reused assets from Strange Journey, which itself was using Etrian Odyssey's engine and dungeon system wholesale, all on the DS. The spells are largely shared between all games, as are elemental types (Fire/Ice/Wind/Electric/Light/Curse/Almighty), the demon/persona roster is always shared between games, and the games are still great. It's like with Yakuza, or Kirby, where a monster or creature or place or musical theme you recognize ellicits a "oh hey welcome back!" response instead of a "the devs are lazy" response.
     
  13. RikohZX

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    Maybe different franchises have different standards, even well into the HD era, and the approach of old stages and areas in Sonic have a completely different connotation to a series like Yakuza that revolves around the same organizations in the same areas, among other contexts?

    That's like saying Pokémon's sheer asset reusage of all of its titular pocket monsters is an affront when X&Y created all those assets at a higher quality than the 3DS really liked to future-proof them for later generations to come. Sonic Generations wasn't designed to be some HD basis for every game thereafter to reuse, especially since Lost World basically threw out almost everything of the prior games altogether.

    There's a lot of all-or-nothing statements thrown around both in defense and in offense to this game, but there's tons of different context, and anyone that gets angry at some Sonic fans for not liking the blatant reusage of level assets from older games is potentially doing it, while those that act like everything has to be 100% new and cannot be reused ever are on the opposite end of the spectrum.

    There's also the problem that this has gone on, dropped off, repeated and so forth ever since the Action Stage footage was first shown and is just the hot button topic right now. Probably because we've already mulled over the rest of the info and footage and now people are chomping at the bit ready to find out if they'll be disappointed or glad about the Action Stages.
     
  14. Patrolman

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    I feel there will be no new this week since Origins is coming out this week
     
  15. Londinium

    Londinium

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    Considering the first week is usually the most important for games, I'm also expecting Sega to put most, if not all, of there resources into Sonic Origins.

    Expect more Sonic Origins interviews in the coming days
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2022
  16. BlueSkiesAM2

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    I’m not as involved in the fandom as with Sonic, despite probably playing MegaTen more than Sonic at this point, but I think I do see a good bit of complaints regarding reused demon models. It’s not nearly to the degree that Sonic games get attacked, but it’s not nonexistent.
     
  17. I still don't get why Sonic or Sonic Team is always singled out. I look at something like Ratchet and Clank and even nor matter if you play it PSP, PS2, PS3, PS4 or PS they all pretty much look the same and play the same and nothing is said and they're held up as classic's.

    We get a bit of green grass in a Sonic game and there's a outcry and SEGA using Greenhill zone again
     
  18. Lambda

    Lambda

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    I really only lurk here, but I know the answer to this question.

    It's because for most of the franchise's history each game had a lot of unique level themes. Sonic 2 has a casino, Sonic 3 has a forest fire stage followed by a water park in an underground cathedral, Sonic Advance had you climb a rocket mid-flight as the rocket's stages separated behind you and you eventually reached space, Sonic Adventure 2 had levels in these weird jack-o-lantern mountains... etc, etc.

    I'm not saying Sonic games never used-to reuse themes, but each Sonic game seemed to take you somewhere new and had a few surprises. That was initially what drew me into the series as a kid. I was always wondering what the next stage was going to look or sound like. I knew it wasn't going to be 100% generic, and I knew it was going to have unique music, enemies, and gimmicks.

    I think "asset reuse" and "stage reuse" are kinda obfuscating people's real concern: "This game might not take me anywhere surprising."

    That's my thought, at-least.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2022
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  19. Starduster

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    Yeah, I think people will be much more accepting if they do something radically new with these stages (basically an extension of what Forces attempted with Green Hill in terms of showing a progression of time on the place reinterpreting the level in a new setting to enhance its usage), but we've no reason to expect that. I'd love something like running through Emerald Coast as a flood hits and changes the level before your eyes, with familiar paths now being submerged and upper paths requiring Sonic to navigate along the drifting pieces of the bridges from near the resort.
     
  20. Angel X

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    We are talking about a small part of the game, since Green Hill and Sky Sanctuary are considered special stages, so they should be short.
    The game focuses on the islands, not entirely on the listed zones.