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Sonic Freerunner

Discussion in 'Fangaming Discussion' started by Azookara, Jan 23, 2010.

  1. Azookara

    Azookara

    yup Member
    BlazeHedgehog has the right idea in mind.

    Guys, believe me when I say that me, 8-Bit Dragon and SF94/Morph have been spending the past six or seven months toying with the physics. This is probably the most comfortable Sonic's movement can get in 3D; or at least the most comfortable it can get with the engine we currently have. Even so, it's the most comfortable I've felt with any 3D Sonic, and that's why it's been revealed to the public because I feel it's at it's peak as of right now. We will make changes to the rolling physics and likewise, but we've practically come to the conclusion that the ground movement is just about perfect right now (not to sound full of myself/ourselves).

    Seriously though, the slippery movement was vanilla Blitzsonic's problem, which made it feel like you were controlling a hovercraft. At one point we tightened it to have as much "traction" as you guys think it should have (we honestly thought it was for the best too). Sonic suffered from Sonic 4 Syndrome; where you gained momentum and as soon as you let go it was gone. We just found the balance, and you're playing it.

    Sort of like the Riders drift move I presume? We had that in mind before, but

    this is what we're doing. :v:
     
  2. BlazeHedgehog

    BlazeHedgehog

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    Sonic Rush kind of does this and it's disorienting as hell. Specifically I am talking about how you can be falling "downwards" and when you land, you take off at full speed - even if you didn't have crazy horizontal momentum when you landed.

    It basically leads to a lot of scenarios where I'd actually like to stop and have precision but instead this weird "speed retrieval" system kicks in and I go blasting off of a platform or whatever even though all I wanted to do was move slowly.
     
  3. TheKazeblade

    TheKazeblade

    "Our Life is More than a Side-Effect" Member
    I think a rubber-band effect like that sounds like a great idea. I'd be curious to see what something like that would look like in action.
     
  4. Polygon Jim

    Polygon Jim

    Eternal Tech Member
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    All the bitches.
    So instead of making Sonic control like he has proper traction with the ground you decided to make him able to run in perfect squares instead. Totally the best way for Sonic to control, you guys must have thought about this amazing idea for years to do something so genius. Maybe the next release you'll make him able to run in perfect triangles and it will be even more amazing.


    No really though, you need to find a proper balance between sliding around like the floor is covered in butter, and making perfect squares.
     
  5. Azookara

    Azookara

    yup Member
    I wouldn't call them perfect squares but I get what you mean. If there's a huge problem with that, then we could always try making Sonic's turning to such steep directional change a bit more gradual. A bit smoother and less instant, I presume?

    We could tamper with it, but I will not guarantee anything. We tried this before and it we weren't very successful with it, but another attempt wouldn't hurt.
     
  6. Overbound

    Overbound

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    In my opinion, design decisions like these really can't be decided upon until a proper Freerunner level is released. This is because how Freerunner should control will depend on the direction of level design. While I know its been said that your headed in an Adventure like direction with the levels, you've also stated you want them to play like the genesis games more. So I think this concept needs to be fleshed out in a test level a bit more before you can decide on specifics for control. I've got some ideas towards that goal but I'd rather show then tell, so it will have to wait till I'm a little further along with my test level.
     
  7. 360

    360

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    Just gave this a shot. You have godlike coding skills to make this run at full speed on my shit laptop. I had a decent frame rate on both levels and was shocked at the strength of the performance to say the least. Overall I really liked it. I can see where you're going with the Freerunner angle with all of that open space and this engine is a strong enough base to (eventually) build a game on. The Sonic model is awesome and the graphical fidelity (along with performance) is superb. You have the basic Sonic physics nailed here. It was a pleasure to play this.

    In terms on constructive criticism; I'm probably going to be echoing others though Sonic running so fast you fall to your doom is the main concern. The camera jumps when running through a loop which needs to recoded. Sonic accelerates too fast so it sometimes feels you're playing as rocket-Sonic where the momentum is so extreme you lose all control. There's a long road to travel here but ultimately what you have is a promising and technically proficient start to what could be an exciting game. I just hope you see this through and at least complete one full-on original level.

    Good work overall. Looking forward to the next release.
     
  8. Miles3298

    Miles3298

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    Is there a key you can press to toggle the camera mode that adjusts itself based on Sonic's angle? I know you can change it in the control config xml files, but that's a bit much when I only want it on? for loops. I remember being able to do this in some other BlitzSonic variation/distribution, but I can't seem to find a button to do that now.

    I like the way Sonic controls. Turning is good and I... just like it. I had to super-increase the mouse speed in the control config however because with this laptop, turning the camera is a nightmare at default settings. There is a bit of a problem, though: you might want to look into how springs work, for if you take a spring, you have to let go of your control, or Sonic is not going to make it to his destination. See the first Green Hill test stage you suddenly had to use: right after the star post is a set of springs. Take them and let go of the controls and you'll make it just fine - if you try to move Sonic forward (or anywhere else), you end up slowing down and don't make it.

    I assume you've already known about the camera zooming in on Sonic's lower area when using any non-Xbox360 USB controller... but restating this won't hurt.

    Laptop-mouse-scrolling does not work for zooming in and out.

    ...And, that is all. I hope to see more from this - I like it.
     
  9. SF94

    SF94

    Tech Member
    Just a reminder: The levels included in this build are the ones provided with the BlitzSonic engine by default; they don't necessarily reflect the exact style we're going for in terms of level design.

    In this build, that happens whenever you're in the air, not just with springs. We may or may not have just fixed it, though :ssh:

    There isn't one currently, but that's not a bad idea!
     
  10. Damizean is correct. I did some more research on this (about 5 minutes worth) and discovered that the problem is with float precision. Apparently, z-fighting starts to occur because at those huge distances, the float becomes inaccurate. (I read somewhere in Blitz3D it is limited to 7 digits, or it may be the video card. If someone can find more info please post it.) I guess it automatically truncates the last digits in the float. If for example Sonic's eyes' z-order is 157368.981, and Sonic's mesh is 157368.984, both numbers would get truncated to 157368.98, and z-fighting starts to occur. I found a few solutions which can fix this:

    Mesh fixes:
    -Scale down the stage, trying not to exceed the float max
    -Arrange your stage so that the second half parallels the first, like SA's Emerald Coast, and 'warp' Sonic to the second half (Warping code is needed for this to work)
    -Alternatively, zig-zag the stage to conserve space

    Code fixes:
    -Move the entire world (and everything in it) when Sonic reaches a certain point on the stage
    -Emulate double float (beyond my capabilities)
    -Buy a new video card which has better accuracy (24-bit or higher) (The problem may also be the directX version B3D uses. Again, I'm just speculating.)
    -Change the near-clipping range of the camera (I doubt this will work, because the problem is not the camera range, but with the sheer distances involved.)
     
  11. Greg the Cat

    Greg the Cat

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    Comics from the Mind of Yours Truly, A little workshop of animation, Sonic FreeRunner
    Oh boy. Just wait till we implement an ability that I suggested to Cody when I had the exact same problem. Keep these two words in mind until then: Sharp Turn.
     
  12. Azookara

    Azookara

    yup Member
    Link to Freerunner prealpha 1.2
    Sendspace link

    Sendspace link coming up soon. Tell us what you think about the improvements; as we tried to cover many of the issues regarding rolling movement (and still are).
     
  13. Chimpo

    Chimpo

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    Tried it with a controller for the first time. I know someone already mentioned these but I can't find the post. I didn't come up with much camera issues before because (surprise surprise) I was using mouse and keyboard set up.

    Why do you have horizontal camera control and vertical camera control mapped on two different input methods? It's completely unintuitive. They're also inverted making it weird when you want to pan the camera left but end up turning it right.

    The horizontal controls are too slow for the player to adjust, but this could be a matter of preference. The level of sensitivity should be an added option when you start implementing configurable controls in game.

    The camera does not adjust to Sonic fast enough, leading to constant readjustments by the player. This wouldn't be a problem if it weren't for the above mentioned.

    On the upside:

    Rolling has improved a lot over the last build. Most of my complaints are gone, but I came across one new problem. If you're going up a hill, initiate a roll and start going down hill, if you press towards the direction you're rolling, you'll stop completely and then continue rolling.

    Still, until some actual Freerunner material is shown, all I see is an improved Blitz Sonic. Not that it's a bad thing, but hell, it's Blitz Sonic.
     
  14. SF94

    SF94

    Tech Member
    ... Wonderful. It looks like the wrong controller configuration was included. =|

    Here: http://www.sendspace.com/file/r0rxk2
    Extract that to the config folder. The camera speed remains the same, but that's easily changeable by hand.
    Edit: And yes, you can actually move the camera entirely with the analog on this one.
     
  15. Chimpo

    Chimpo

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    Much better.
     
  16. BlazeHedgehog

    BlazeHedgehog

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    Wow, it's kind of amazing how much the fixed air momentum completely changes the feeling of jumping for the better.
     
  17. Aerosol

    Aerosol

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    Sonic (?): Coming summer of 2055...?
    My camera is stick looking up at Sonic's crotch and rotating with 'right' controller config files. This does not turn me on.

    That said, has it been noted already that the Logitech Dual Action pad has problems with this game?

    Edit: A bit more info. If I move the right stick all the way to the right, the camera stops rotating. In the 'Game Controllers' part of the control panel, that equates to my Z-axis going all the way down to 0.
     
  18. ReBirFh

    ReBirFh

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    Congratulations, the demo runs smooth on my 3 years old computer with intel integrated graphics, only the bridge texture is missing (not a problem of the game)

    Some problems and ideas based on my playthrough of the demo

    *It seems that after a jump, sonic gains speed as soon as it touchs the ground this makes hin run sideways if you change direction in midair and is problematic if you're trying some precise plataforming jumps.
    *Loops should be automatic as soon as you starts running inside one.
    *When on ground, maybe Sonic could stop automatically when it reaches the edge of a plataform if you're pushing the oposite direction (it would make him do the balancing animation)
    *The best way to control Sonic (for me at least) seems to be holding forward and changing directions not with the keyboard but wit the camera.
     
  19. I thought I'd go ahead and share my glitch list. These are things I will eventually fix in later builds.

    Menu Related:
    -fix full screen resolution
    -implement new menu

    Game Play:
    -scripted camera
    -path following
    -reset timer and objects after dying
    -fade effect after dying
    -return sonic to goal's position after collecting it
    -auto-unroll when falling off cliff (hold button to keep rolling)
    -omni directional rolling influence

    Bug Related:
    -check fading effect (doesnt work for some people, create alternative?)
    -check save data
    -check fog parser (game may crash wihtout fog tag!)
    -fix camera zooming on Sonic's privates (config related, will be fixed with scripted camera)
    -sonic spawns upside down

    BTW, there is a new cheat included with build 1.2...
    5x roll weight:
    Enable debug mode and enter Up, Up, Down, Up, Down, Down, Down, Down
     
  20. Dude

    Dude

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    The game crashes after several minutes of play. But this happens on my pc with several 3d games, so I doubt it's something you can fix. This is definitely the most polished I've ever seen a blitzsonic game. I can't wait to see what it's like when the camera system is done and levels are added. I would stick with the colors model and anims btw, I don't think you'll be able to find much better than that. Can't wait to see more.