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Sonic Freerunner

Discussion in 'Fangaming Discussion' started by Azookara, Jan 23, 2010.

  1. Aerosol

    Aerosol

    Not here. Moderator
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    Sonic (?): Coming summer of 2055...?
    Ha, that's the first time I've heard somebody misunderstand and call SAGE E3.

    In any case, Azukara has explicitly stated that, despite the advancements made with Sonic GDK, a lot of time and effort has already been spent on the BlitzSonic version of the engine, and his team won't be switching engines.
     
  2. Are you on the freerunner forums? Actually, I think he told me in a PM that they were going to change things. He showed me some fantastic concept art.

    But I guess not.

    And to Azukara, like I said, I can offer more help now. I've increased my skill beyond amateur stage making. I can discuss more on your forum, but if you say no here I can move onto some other projects people have asked for my help with.
     
  3. While SonicGDK shows some promise, the system requirements are very high; It puts out a lot of people from playing Freerunner, including some of our staff. In addition, our programmers (myself included) will have to learn a new language (UnrealScript), which could delay the project further. I have learned to use Blitz brushes in 3DS Max, and I am now able to produce decent looking light maps which will greatly improve the visual appeal of Freerunner, without the need for a video card that supports real-time shading. I believe we can achieve a level of visual quality comparable to SonicGDK with the current engine, so I see no point in switching. I would compare this to switching to a new IPhone which is a few milliseconds faster than your old one, but will require you re-download and install all your apps and music; The gain does not justify all that extra work.

    Here is a proof of concept for light maps. I know Azukara does not want me posting stuff we are working on but its the only way I'm going to get my point across. With some improvement, the stages could look just as good as they would in a real-time shading engine, in my opinion. Furthermore, why would we need pixel shading and advanced physics anyway? Its a Sonic game. Right?
    [​IMG]
     
  4. Fred

    Fred

    Taking a break Oldbie
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    Looks a bit too foggy to me, but there's one thing that's sticking out and I can't ignore it.

    On the far end of that loop there, where it reconnects with the ground, the ground has a dark shadow applied, but the loops seems to be at normal brightness. I know it's a proof of concept, but I'm just womdering if that's something that would eventually get fixed or not.
     
  5. The loop is not complete and so it does not have a light map. Eventually all objects will have their own light map and will have/cast shadows. The fog is an effect that can be turned off in the stage.xml file.
     
  6. Dude

    Dude

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    Any progress on the camera system yet? How about the controls? I'd recommend going controller-exclusive, this way you only have one control type to focus on and it would help the game feel more like a real game.
     
  7. Volpino

    Volpino

    Things are looking up! Member
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    That game looks awesome, and the new map looks really good. I'm glad the border was added.

    Thanks for considering the requirements of the new engine... I would have to triple my RAM and figure out how to replace my really crappy graphics card just to play that thing, I can't imagine FreeRunner will agree with my computer, but I am saving up to get a new one (because my current one doesn't even have enough resources to upgrade to Vista or 7, it runs XP) as soon as I have the funds, so I think I might have a more decent machine by the time FR comes out.

    I disagree... Not everyone has a gaming pad and I don't want to buy one for one game.
     
  8. Azookara

    Azookara

    yup Member
    Actually that's the next thing we are working on, besides netplay activity. And controller support is the main focus of this game. I'm setting it up with a 360 controller, however it'll still be playable via keyboard and/or keyboard + mouse.

    Also another clue for you all:
    [​IMG]
    The walrus was Paul.
     
  9. Mr. Mash

    Mr. Mash

    All fanbases are awful Member
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    Azukara, what objects for the first level still need to be modelled?
     
  10. Dude

    Dude

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    There's some MC Escher perspective going on in that pic... how do you plan on actually modeling it?
     
  11. Tidbit

    Tidbit

    Member
    I know its kinda hard, but this might help the perspective...
    [​IMG]
    Yeah I know its an older version I did it a while ago and didn't feel like doing another one :psyduck: .
     
  12. Azookara

    Azookara

    yup Member
    Actually the level layout has already been done for all of that and more (totalling act one). It's looking pretty good, although a bit undetailed thanks to the lack of added details, special effects, objects, props and all that jazz. We will post something when we got it at least 3/4 finalized.

    In the meantime Mr. Mash, we have basic stuff covered for objects although making more and more different variations on palmtrees and watermelons and other tropical fruit would be very productive.

    Also I'm seeming to lose steam on this here project.. Since after all there has been a dramatic increase in quality 3D Sonic fangames, all with much better graphics, gameplay and overall appeal. It's sort of disheartening, and I'd like to ask how I can increase the quality of this game to as high of standards as these.. I want a game that is functional, but has impressive graphics, art style and gameplay. The team could honestly use professional assisstance at this time because I, EightBitDragon, Zepp, Ozcrash, LS5, Carrierhack and the rest of the gang are seriously putting our love and time into this project, but it's coming out all to subpar results. If anyone with good talent and a good sense of this game's direction is immediately needed.
     
  13. Tidbit

    Tidbit

    Member
    Port to Sonic GDK :specialed: . But no I know theres been a ton of work put into this game, I think it should keep going as is.
     
  14. Azookara

    Azookara

    yup Member
    We were considering SonicGDK highly but alas 8 Bit Dragon's computer can't handle it (because his computer sucks lol). Because he's our main coder and co-leader of this project this move would be counterproductive for his work on the team.

    The main issues with Blitzsonic though is the fact that it's a struggle using things with it because of it's wonky collision (it took us a loongg time to get moving platforms). Plus, it can be pretty clunky, floaty and hovercraft-like in movement, which makes it hard to bear.. We will continue to use Blitzsonic to see if we can iron out those problems. If we can't, I'm not willing to continue work on SFR if it remains with Blitzsonic. (I really hope these problems can be 100% fixed though)..

    However the move would require an engine that could handle graphics and collision much better, as well as functionality on most CPUs. (inb4lolSADXhack)
     
  15. Dude

    Dude

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    There are engine alternatives out there like Irrlicht and Ogre, although with Irrlicht you'd have to write large sections of code yourself, primarily collision. You'd also have to wind up switching to C/C++ instead of blitz3d. Overall though it has several powerful libraries and much less taxing than GDK. You'd want more than one programmer on the project though if you were to move to a more involved engine.

    (also the SADX hack isn't a bad idea either)
     
  16. Azookara

    Azookara

    yup Member
    We have several programmers but they all are used to Blitz3D. Also were porting SFR to C++, but it'll remain the Blitzsonic engine ported to it, and the concept of that is a little better but it'll still mean were messing with odd collision issues the original code had as well as some of the limitations in altering the controls behind Sonic's movement.

    I'd say we build an engine from scratch but that'd be an INCREDIBLY long process for people inexperienced in it, unlike MarktheEchidna which built one in a month. :v: In fact since it's technically the successor to Blitzsonic, it'd be pretty cool to see SFR use his engine, but that's only me imagining without looking at would have to be done if that happened.

    Also if it was an SADX hack it'd require INTENSE recoding of the game. Like, redoing the menus completely, changing cutscenes, creating objects with full functions, all kinds of things that I don't believe are anything near possible at the moment (unless, of course considering you and MainMemory are most knowledgable of this subject, you could tell me otherwise).
     
  17. Dude

    Dude

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    yeah really all there is for SADX at the moment is that you can completely change the levels, port any object to any level, & re-model any object. I've been trying to look into the menu situation but I've hit alot of dead ends. SFR has shifted so far from its original goal of "Sonic Adventure with a classic model" that you'd be giving up alot of your goals in exchange for a better physics and control engine.
     
  18. Ultimately, Azukara is still in charge. If he wants to switch engines, that is up to him. Yes, he will lose me as a programmer, and will likely lose all the new features like the minimap and menu, and it will likely delay a demo until 2012, easily. As I said, Azukara is still in charge, so I'm not pressuring him into keeping this engine, I'm just pointing out some facts he should consider before making the decision to switch.
     
  19. Azookara

    Azookara

    yup Member
    No, I'm not gonna lose my main strong team member. I'm just considering what the game can and can't do if we do certain things when staying Blitzsonic. If we can work on it to where the controls don't suffer, after the C++ port, then we are fine. If not then I'll take other things into consideration.

    And I know the identity of this has changed drastically and has gotten flak for it as well. It's going in a solid direction now thankfully and there's no changing it after getting enough solid direction.
     
  20. Volpino

    Volpino

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    A secret. >:3
    I'm not entirely sure about this but doesn't Ogre have high system requirements as well?

    Anyway, about suggestions for the graphics, I think the graphics will be fine. It looks good to me so far and I think as long as your object placement is appealing, you won't need a lot of fancy crap.

    If you think the objects look too simple, the only suggestion I have is *braces for flames* make everything cell-shaded :specialed: but that's not a popular idea for some reason. I only suggested it because, from the screenshot, other than the grass, there isn't a whole lot of texture going on, it's just solid/checkered patterns that look like monotone shading was applied and I see no difference in an object with many darker shades of the same color and an object with two or three darker shades of the same color, other than "It looks more realistic and less cartoonish" but since the source material looks like sprites and there isn't a whole lot to go off of, why not go all the way with the sprite look in 3D? That's not an argument, it's just an opinion. I know nobody likes that style of shading and I don't expect to chance an age-old hatred of it.

    Other, possibly more popular suggestions are to add more texture. (No, I'm not talking about the kind of texture you apply to models. I know that classic style flower probably has a green texture with yellow plastered on it, I'm talking about more visible textures.) Even though the source material has little in the way of texture, the source material is 16/24/32bit sprites, and if you're going for the realism effect, it might help to make those cliffs and rocks look rocky and fix up the texture application on some of the objects. (It looks a bit stretched on the strawberry), and I think just toss out the idea of adding those spinny flowers from Sonic 1/CD altogether since they don't look very good when put into 3D, and make a more detailed variation of them instead. (I would make a sunflower-like object, personally, since I think that's what they were trying for to begin with.) Or you could tweak the lighting for the levels to look more natural. I'm gonna assume the first level is morning/midday, so make the lighting look more sunny and less like there's a giant florescent light bulb shining on everything from an angle, if that's possible with the engine, and make things look more naturally shaded instead of just monotones all over the place. This screenshot looks like the lighting is more natural than the most recent one:

    [​IMG]

    And I'll assume it's the lighting, but if it isn't, whatever you did to that screenshot to make it look more natural would be an improvement on the current screenshot.

    I know the screenshot was a mock-up and is subject to change and that the lighting or shading isn't really final, this is just a suggestion about what could make it look better as it is and what I have to go on.