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Sonic Forces Thread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Blue Blood, Jul 23, 2016.

  1. People shouldn't be having expectations about the game this early; besides a vague idea about what the story will be like, nothing else about the game was really revealed. Having a lot of expectations now will only increase the potential amount of disappointment after the game's release.
     
  2. Turbohog

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    Like others have said, I'm not a fan of Sega treating classic Sonic and modern Sonic as two different characters or something. Nintendo doesn't have a classic Mario and a modern Mario because they have stayed true to Mario's roots. Sure, each new Mario game is a bit different and he has a few different moves or abilities. However, Sega/Sonicteam has tried to reinvent the wheel to much with Sonic, resulting in modern Sonic being pretty different from classic Sonic. I'd like to see them refine modern Sonic to be closer to classic Sonic.

    My main beef with the modern games is the lack of control. It honestly is pretty much just boost to win (and jump sometimes). Someone mentioned earlier that Generations had multiple paths. It did, but barely. I still get nowhere near the amount of replay value from Generations as I do with the classic games. Strangely enough, I enjoy revisiting the Adventure games more than Generations too. The Adventure games definitely didn't have multiple paths, but they did have control, which is largely missing from modern Sonic.
     
  3. Iggy for Short

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    I think what's frustrating me the most right now is not knowing anything. After teasers of announcements of announcements, I'd just like to know SOMETHING substantial about Sonic's next 3D outing. The wait is killing me, to the point that what should be celebrations of the franchise are turning into things I'm sitting through to get to the supposed reveal at the end, which only makes every technical difficulty and blatant advertisement that much harder to sit through. And for what, a CG trailer that tells us almost nothing except "Classic Sonic is back"?

    Granted, I liked Classic Sonic in Generations, but here it comes across as SEGA having run out of ideas, and with Sonic Mania on the way it only makes it look more redundant. Considering how long it's been since we've had a Sonic game that didn't feel rushed or half-baked, I was really hoping this one could be nice big mug of just 3D Sonic, but if Classic is back, it'll probably be another cup of half-and-half.
     
  4. Cooljerk

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    TGS is in september, I'd expect to hear more then. This was really just a teaser more than anything else.
     
  5. Ravenfreak

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    This is honestly how I feel myself. Classic Sonic and Modern Sonic both are Sonic. They're the same character, Modern Sonic is just a redesign of the classic Sonic most of us grew up with, originally they weren't supposed to be two separate characters, but since Generations they're treated as two separate entities. Yes the modern games are different than the classics in some aspects, but most of the core gameplay from classic Sonic is still somewhat present in some modern games. (Sonic still goes fast in most modern titles. :v: ) Again as much as I love the classics more than most of the modern titles, I still would wish they didn't show off Classic Sonic helping Modern Sonic, and instead I think they should have shown another character. Regardless though, it's Sega's main project, and they're able to do whatever the hell they wish with it. I just hope it's going to be good, but I'll have to wait and see just like everyone else. That still means I'm a tad bit disappointed, but once we get gameplay footage then I can really judge it.
     
  6. TheKazeblade

    TheKazeblade

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    After Generations proved that there's a market for Classic Sonic, there's really no need for them to share games anymore. Mania will be great and spawn sequels; if modern Sonic titles can stand on their own merits from here on, they shouldn't need Classic Sonic as a cash-grab crutch. Let the two iterations of the character stay in the style/games they excel at, or merge them into a hybrid and do both well with the same design. But having them both in modern Sonic games at this point feels like a half-step.
     
  7. LowSeasCaroz

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    Sonic Team is just in a really difficult situation right now, and it doesn't seem like they want to choose one style of gameplay, because there's always one group of people that will dislike that style of gameplay. Some people don't like the Boost Gameplay from Colours/Modern Generations, because they don't like the lack of control. Other people don't like the Classic Generations gameplay because the controls feel stiff and many of the levels are kind of boring due to the dull level design in Generations. Other people don't like the Adventure style, because of the different characters and sometimes problematic controls. Some people don't like the Rush-style gameplay, because you can finish the games pretty quickly and they're too stupid to avoid falling into pits and getting crushed :p

    See, no matter what they will do, they won't satisfy everyone. And after the completely new gameplay style in Lost World wasn't received that well, their attempt to please as many people as possible is to combine multiple play styles in one game, since Generations has sold well and was the most critically acclaimed game in the series since 2005's Sonic Rush.
    But by doing that, they also avoid giving the current Sonic games an identity, creating a mishmash of a game that might not even satisfy the people it was trying to please in the first place.
    I really liked Gererations, but... if the new game follows the same structure, I'd be really disappointed, because after a development time of almost four years, you'd just expect something more than a Generations level pack with prettier graphics. I would be happier if they chose a consistent direction for future games.
     
  8. Jayextee

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    I don't get why 'choosing one style of gameplay' is so important when the much-lauded Unleashed day stages, Sonic Colours and modern Sonic Generations levels were not in actuality one style of gameplay. Hell, they spent as much if not more time in their side-view/2D modes as they did the stock 'Sonic's ass' mode.

    Which is why I personally don't mind if I'm getting a raw, stripped-to-the-basics version of each stage as classic Sonic. Hell if it doesn't play 1:1 like 16-bit Sonic, it gives some quality platforming without the WOOO! YEAH! *grind* *WOOOSH!* *boost* *QTE* attention-deficit wall of noise; and although those are admittedly rather fun, the 'breather' of the classic stages was IMO very welcome in Generations and I'm sure it will be in PS2017 too.

    Or, and this would be amazing, why don't they just get rid of modern Sonic altogether? That way, SEGA will 'choose one style of gameplay'. :V
     
  9. Amnimator

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    Well, I snipped some of that post so I don't make the page scroll as much, but really well said, Chimera. My biggest issue with Generations for me has to be the physics and level design. You either go fast, or turtle speed, and the turn radius is horrendous. The game's level design has virtually no exploration, and movement certainly doesn't feel fun. And contrary to what I said, even if it can be seen as too fast, it doesn't feel like your going fast at all, which makes it that much worse. More like the game wants me to go this specified speed and direction.
    As for what you said about Melee, I feel the speed to it is a result of the player wanting to play at that speed, and as such it's a bunch of fun because the speed is tied with your skill. You don't have to play fast, but as you start to learn the game in and out you can go nuts. The difference is modern Sonic games almost force you to go fast, where in many other games speed is a result of the player. It's much less binary than Sonic games make it. But I still feel that the level design for the boost games really does intensify the issues the player physics give. In a tight corridor I couldn't dodge left or right if I tried. At the very least a double jump should've been added to aid with reaction time. This is coming from someone that could play those games in his sleep. It's just that with bad binary movement, it will look "too fast" and plays way too uncontrollable for anyone outside the series or anyone at all.
    And while Adventure 2 didn't exactly have great player physics (insert spindash starting lag here), it was much more accessible for anyone looking for a platformer. Going from 0 to 750mph within a fraction of a second isn't the best way to appeal to the platforming audience.
     
  10. Beltway

    Beltway

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    On the topic of boost gameplay, I'm of the opinion that the boost gameplay could be re-positioned as a mainstay racing spinoff (speaking more in terms of branding here, though it would be nice if the boost gameplay could took a few notes from Sonic R and Sonic Riders), while 3D Sonic could try going for a more momentum-based 3D platforming approach like the Adventure series and 2D Sonic can continue holding the torch for classic Sonic gameplay.

    Ideally IMO, once a generation you have a 2D Sonic, a 3D Sonic, and a "boost" Sonic in the same way you have a 2D Super Mario Bros. game, a 3D Super Mario game, and a Mario Kart racer. That would essentially be hitting all of the three major gameplay fractions of this fanbase.

    But that's just me and my opinions. :v:
     
  11. TheKazeblade

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    Has there been any indication that it will make an appearance at TGS? Waiting until the new year to get a glimpse at gameplay would be way too frustrating.

    Also, it would align with the current rumors that the NX will be shown for the first time in September so maybe we'll see Resistance running on NX hardware if that's the case.
     
  12. bombatheechidna

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    Edit: oops wrong place haha but I really hope to see gameplay footage soon for this game.
     
  13. Lobotomy

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    Unleashed style gameplay really seems to be the best route to take, so far, but I think it can be expanded, or tweaked, in order to be more compelling. Running through a stage is great, but I really want more out of blowing up robots, than running into them at ludicrous speed. Something to break it up, you know? I love goin' fast, and that's super great, but it can't be everything.
     
  14. plushifoxed

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    It'd be nice if they could hit a happy medium in between the agonizingly slow default top speed of Lost World and the too-fast-to-control (unboosted) top speed of Unleashed/Colors/Gens. And make turning Sonic at (again, unboosted) speed feel less like he suddenly has tank treads for feet. Boosting should continue to be an option, that much is fine by me, but the level design should allow for some modicum of platforming and exploration, and the gameplay should accommodate for that desire.
    I feel like they almost had it right in Colors; there were lots of platforming levels to break up the boost/drift-heavy ones. But my issue there is that they made Sonic's jump intensely floaty until it peaked, and then practically magnetized him to the nearest floor (or death plane). And you had the double jump, sure, but it almost made things worse; it was so easy to miss one end of a platform, try to double jump, and then just go straight over it and into a pit. Aquarium Park and Asteroid Coaster come to mind on that front.
    Classic Sonic in Generations was pretty similar, but by default he lacked that second jump. He was less floaty, though, at least.

    I'm kind of rambling but my point is mostly that Sonic is too floaty and hard to control in the air and too fast and hard to control on the ground. Also it's easy to just slip off the edge of a platform especially in 2D segments. Take a page out of Smash Bros. (or Lost World) and just let Sonic grab ledges. Or at least floating platform ledges.
    I dunno, I suck at video games, throw me a bone. ¯\_(?)_/¯
     
  15. LowSeasCaroz

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    I feel like people seem to ignore the one recent Sonic game that almost nailed the controls:
    Sonic Generations on the 3DS!
    Seriously, do people not remember how good Classic Sonic's physics in the 3DS version were? They were far better and less stiff than in the 360 version. ...at least until you get the homing attack, that was a really unnecessary inclusion that I have no idea why they put it in there.
    If Dimps can get the controls right - in a development time of 8 months or so- then Sonic Team SHOULD be able to get the controls right. Especially with a game that's in development for 4 goddamn years!
     
  16. Amnimator

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    @SupaKitsune- Yeah, jumping control feels pretty weird. Sonic either feels too heavy or too floaty lately. And I'm not crying saying it's not like the classics, I'm saying it's difficult to predict how you're going to land. Look at Lost World where even when you move at a slow pace, it's still difficult to pinpoint how you're going to land because of the fickle momentum. What I will say is that Colors had better player control than Unleashed or Generations at slower speeds (as well as aerial control), and that's saying something considering I was playing with an octagonal nunchuck. It wasn't better by a land slide, but it was still pretty noticeable. I feel the issues you had with double jumping in Colors was platform placement not giving enough reaction time like in Asteroid Coaster.


    @LowSeasCaroz- My memory is kind of foggy from Generations 3DS, but I'll say Classic Sonic seemed to have controlled better than consoles for the most part. However, modern Sonic was extremely awkward to play as in the 3DS version; it felt like a bootleg Sonic Rush. That being said, both characters felt like they had a severe lack of polish in that one, and I wouldn't say they nailed the controls. Modern Sonic's camera was just strange and unneeded, as well as all the animations having no harmony, being really stiff, and pacing being off. Even if they really did nail the controls, the camera and animations would've still made them feel awkward to play as. But I'd assume the stiff animations are because of a smaller budget/ not being a main focus (less quality control) and 3DS cartridge limitations.
    I just want to say this, fluid and harmonious animations can make gameplay that much more fun. There's a Sonic like game that is amazing solely because of how everything flows together. Fancy Pants Adventures World 3: [Linky] It also has a drop dash similar to what Sonic Mania showed in the trailer. And because of a combination of good player physics and fluid animation, it makes mediocre level design feel enjoyable. This is something I feel was horribly lacking in 3D Sonic games, and like Chimera mentioned a few pages ago, this is something that is present in some open world games that don't even advertise it. It's just that Generations 3DS I feel, that even if it does acceptable physics for classic Sonic makes everything feel really stiff. But then again, I haven't played it in a while, so eh.
     
  17. DigitalDuck

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    They do, however, have a Mario, Baby Mario, Metal Mario, and Paper Mario that according to various Mario games have met and exist side-by-side.


    Anyway, this looks interesting. Not much more to say about it because it's a teaser. Hoping for more Unleashed/Colours/Generations-style gameplay, hoping Classic Sonic is either incorporated with Modern Sonic in his levels in some way, improved upon Generations' Classic Sonic, or about as ignorable as he was in Generations.
     
  18. Hahaha this is pretty much it!!
     
  19. bombatheechidna

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    No! They love their Modern Sonic although they never stopped complaining about his game play since he joined the series. lol

    You would like to think that would solve everything because Sega never seems to get his game play the way people want but I bet they will flip out if they threaten to get rid of Modern Sonic as a whole. You have people that hate the Adventure games but love Unleashed, Colors and Generations. You also have the people that prefer the Adventure games over the Boost game play. I'm convinced now there are two modern eras clashing against each other.

    I want this game to work like Generations but if it doesn't, it won't be the end of the world for me because I'm looking more forward to Mania anyway. I'm really numb to Sega disappointing me and it doesn't bother me anymore. I do prefer to to have two good Sonic games in one year but I don't want to set my standards too high.
     
  20. Dark Sonic

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    Unfortunately the Modern era has been littered with so many gameplay styles a unified Modern fanbase is nigh on impossible. From the gameplay to the tone of stories, you're not going to find much common ground between the likes of SA2 and Sonic Colors.

    Personally I like the idea of using the Generations gameplay style with originals levels. I enjoyed playing as classic Sonic and I thought the boost formula was Modern Sonic's only successful play style. Was it the same as Classic Sonic? No. Doesn't have to though, it can be fun in it's own right. Hell, in a way I'm actually kind of happy Sega is treating Modern and Classic Sonic as two separate characters. Why? It'll make them less gun shy when it comes to using Classic Sonic. I mean they just allowed it in Mania. It makes more sense to have a Classic subseries alongside a Modern series than making something like Sonic 4 or Sonic Lost World again, which seem to be their attempt at putting a square peg in a round hole.

    In a way this game has the potential to be what I hoped Sonic's future was going to be immediately after Generations. Granted I didn't expect them to pop up in the same game again, but I was hoping they'd use Generations as a base and would be able to subsequently improve upon it. I was glad that Generations was kind of a series retcon, like it was it's way of saying after all those years of random stuff "ok this is Sonic. Lil Sanic plays like this and Generic Sanic plays like this. Everyone else go fuck off." Then Lost World and Boom came around and kinda ruined that plan, but now Mania has been announced and this game seems to be Generations 2, the not Generations one, and honestly that works perfectly for me.