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Sonic Forces Thread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Blue Blood, Jul 23, 2016.

  1. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

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    My only real issue is that the bridge is lazy as fuck. The ship in Angel Island is notorious for being particularly boring because of how long it is, so I suppose that at least Forces does a better job in that regard? It's a pretty weak spectacle though.
     
  2. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    The visual is lackluster but it's something that has been used a number of times before, so in and of itself it's not so bad just kinda dull. Personally the new footage relieved me somewhat as at least it's at the end of the level. I was worried it was part way through the level and that would prevent backtracking, which would be rather annoying. Even Generations GHZ has this in a way with that final corkscrew. It's not really interesting or spectacular it's just there, kind of like this thing.

    Also dick rock placement has been done before too. Palmtree Panic Act 2 present comes to mind (also dick spring placement). Running to the end of the level? Yea no here's a rock and a spring to launch you backwards fuck you.
     
  3. rebelcheese

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    Well sometimes in Sonic CD you have to run to the left and that rock and spring is meant to provide encouragement in that regard. :specialed:
     
  4. For other examples of holding right to win in older Sonic games, there is the ending section of Carnival Night Act 2. They just place a large amount of speed booster twice in order to propel you through a linear section. You don't need to do any platforming once you reach it and can just hold right or down. Another that I can think of is somewhere near the end or middle of Launch Base Act 1, there is a series of springs and launchers that encourages you to follow the main path in the stage. Those are just a few examples of automation that has been in the series for a while.

    As I pointed out, those springs end up slowing you down if you take them anyways. It's relatively easy to not take them by simply jumping. The other examples of "hold right to win" have been provided by others. Also, you have a spin dash and what is probably the drop dash for going through the stage quickly. That doesn't seem difficult to do. It's nitpicking to complain about a section that lasts only for a couple of seconds when there were even more drawn out ones in the series.
     
  5. Shaddy the guy

    Shaddy the guy

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    I think it's just that for spectacle...it ain't all that spectacular. It's just a bunch of the same fish over and over while running down a really long and flat-looking line of falling bridge pieces.

    Not that it'll matter, since it probably took very little time to place and will take very little to pass assuming everything is mechanically sound, but that's what I'm getting from a lot of these complaints rather than the principle of it being a big setpiece.
     
  6. It's very confusing to see this being stated as a problem as if this a new thing that hasn't been done in previous games. It makes less sense how there being rocks that halt your movement is used as an example of bad level design. You just press the jump buttion. I thought that "hold right to win" wasn't acceptable.
     
  7. VectorCNC

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    This implies a fundamental misunderstanding of the classics gameplay. These games were strong platformers at heart and the segments of "hold right to win" were not abused, but mere rewards for your progress that showcased the hardware capability and Sonic's characteristic speed. Somehow Sega drank their own Kool-Aid and came to think Sonic's primary objective was to move as fast as possible for as long as possible, to the extent that the game design suffered (long corridors, hold right), and a large portion of the audience was alienated (too hard to play, only Sonic in namesake). In effect, "people like the momentary bursts of speed from the classics, so let's make an entire game of that" became the mantra. The classics had their momentary cinematic speed bursts, sure, but they didn't dominate the game as with Modern Sonic. They used restraint and balance.

    LimitCrown, I'm just going to ask... Are you working for Sonic Team?
     
  8. D.A. Garden

    D.A. Garden

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    LimitCrown; I don't think you're understanding people's issue. It's not that a rock is there, or that you can jump over it. It's the placement, and what is before and afterwards. It's way too close to the start of the bridge, and looks visually incorrect. There is nothing wrong with putting a rock near the start of a bridge, as the original does it in multiple places, but this is practically in between the bridge poles, and there's a short strip of land before it, which would indicate a chance to build up speed for the upcoming bridge.

    Also, your understanding of 'hold right to win' makes no sense in this context. The level layout should encourage you to build some speed and then juggle maintaining it with some well timed jumps with the upcoming bridge, and chopper badniks that are expected. Instead, you are stopped in your tracks. But it's a non issue anyway, as Sonic goes straight back to full speed just by jumping over the rock (due to strangely sharp acceleration). This is also awkward as I expect you'll land on the bridge right next to a chopper (now running, of course), or be forced to wait for the choppers to move to an optimal position.

    I actually don't know why I bothered to explain all of that, because I doubt anyone will read it and understand what I mean. But, if you honestly can't see issues with this layout as it's shown so far, then I really don't know what else to say. But then again, I wasn't too fond of Generations' Classic Sonic layouts as they also had the same issues, just less pronounced.

    I agree with what other people have said though. Sega have proven they don't know what made the originals work. That's fine, so long as they continue to allow others to make stuff like Sonic Mania. But, I honestly don't care too much about this game, myself. My expectations were low to begin with, and as more footage is being shown, my initial feeling of 'meh', still stands.
     
  9. The two portions of Sonic 3 that I used as examples didn't provide those as rewards. No matter whatever physics the game uses, those weren't rewards for progress, but simply there for the sake of it. I've played the game more than enough times to know this and it's the second game that I've ever played. Also, don't act as if major portions of the fanbase weren't asking for them to go back to the Boost-style gameplay after Lost World, wanting them to stick with and refine a gameplay style that they've shown improvements in, or constantly said for a while that Sonic should be about "going fast".

    @D.A. Garden, that rock can be so clearly seen and the screen scrolls slowly enough that simply jumping over it shouldn't be a problem. You also have what seems to be the drop dash. If this is the case, then you could easily maintain your speed with it. It's going to be in Sonic Mania and people haven't complained much, if at all, about it being there.
     
  10. D.A. Garden

    D.A. Garden

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    LimitCrown, did you even read my post? It's not that the rock is there. I already said that. It's the placement that's the issue. I'm not going to repeat myself again. It's also not a speed issue, which you insist it is, or a visibility issue. It's about level flow. It breaks flow in an unorthodox manner. If you moved the rock to the left a bit, that would fix the issue. But I digress; Sega seem to think that 8 instances of floor springs in a short, less than 2 minute act (6 of these are also utterly pointless when you could just jump up/forward instead) is also acceptable. Also, I don't know why you think the dropdash is a suitable solution, either. Yes, if it was here (which we don't know yet. We've seen one spindash from a jump that could have been down to good timing on the player's part with a general spindash, which you can do without stopping, as seen in Sonic Generations), then maintaining speed is possible, but that's not what I meant in the first place.
     
  11. The placement isn't even that much of a problem because the small pillars don't obscure its position when it appears on the screen. The reason why I say that the drop dash might be there is that if you look closely, Sonic's spinning animation changes before he touches the ground.
     
  12. Beltway

    Beltway

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    Oh hey, Sonic Team actually did get the rolling physics right after all!.....for the tire of the destroyed badnik. :psyduck:
     
  13. Naean

    Naean

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    I'm inclined to believe that it is in fact the drop dash, as right before Sonic hits the ground, his ball form in the air changes appearance a little bit, much like in Sonic Mania.

    It's not immediately apparent in the Sonic Forces video, because the move is executed just before Sonic hits the ground, but when watching the video slowed down, it is clearer to see a blue aura surrounding Sonic before he lands.
     
  14. Dark Sonic

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    Yea, I notice that. Amazing. Like they know what to do but they just don't do it.

    Baffling. I don't get it.
     
  15. rata

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    Any hopes that they are just moking us up and the final game will have nothing to do with all they are showing to us? Please?:v
     
  16. One can dream.

    Before we had the SXSW gameplay reveal, I repeated this chant several times to myself:

    "Cross my fingers, hope to die, please don't stick a Sonic Adventure 3 in my eye."

    And it worked! :)/>

    .....But then we were shown this stuff.

    Honestly I've lost most of my trust in SEGA and Sonic Team being a long time Sonic fan but even I didn't expect that they could handle the marketing of a "franchise-rejuvenating" game title this poorly. It reeks of desperation, confusion...and maybe even a lack of resources? The game looks seriously like they just started production on it this year, not 2013-2014. Why would they waste their efforts in reassuring their consumers that they are taking their time to ensure quality if that is the case?


    I strongly believe that after Forces release, assuming what we see is mostly indicative of the final product (that HAS to be a reasonable assumption, correct?), that Sonic Team should stop making 3D Sonic games for a while. And SEGA should consider some internal restructuring.

    In any case, I've about reached my breaking point with the current Sonic Team...which is surprising even myself to a degree because I have been stupidly dedicated to this franchise since the original game. I will wholeheartedly support Mania and any follow ups to that inspired direction obviously but I may stop investing my time into the actual Sonic Team titles which haven't significantly excited me since 1998. I'm 100% positive that they do not understand the things that make Sonic gameplay definitively Sonic. Someone will manage to do that within a project at some point but it may not be Sonic Team and I don't have to spend my money on their mediocrity in the meantime.
     
  17. LordOfSquad

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    Maybe they know what to do and don't do it because they have too much fun watching people on the internet overreact to everything they do wrong.
     
  18. Jason

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    The new engine is probably still using Havok for physics. They only seem to ever use it for debris.
     
  19. Atendega

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    ...I can't tell if you're joking?

    That's just stock standard Havok physics, used for debris and shit since forever. Actual physics simulations aren't something you use for player movement in games like these, and they certainly weren't used in the Genesis games.
     
  20. Josh

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    I've always felt like making the gameplay ABOUT going fast was more about taking advantage of the advent of 3D. The classics were designed the way they were partly because they had to be, because holding a button and making AWESOME things happen would get boring if it was all the game was. But people expected to see the constant spectacle of Sonic's superpower realized in 3D, and so that's where more of the focus went. This can be done very well (Generations) and very poorly (Sonic '06), but I'd argue that trying to make this approach work was the right move.