Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Blue Blood, Jul 23, 2016.
So... not even close to identical :v:
Don't forget to take away the ability to turn and go in any direction other than a straight line.
Uglier? How so?
Excuse you, sir or madam, but I've been reduced to shitposting for years now.
Plus, I'm not nor have I ever been employed by SEGA. I've worked with them, but not for them.
I do think the boost game play is the logical conclusion of games like SA2 for sure, with its linear corridor design and excessively automated sections. That's where that started.
So in that sense, the boost gameplay is an evolution of the adventure gameplay. Sit down and play SA1 and then sit down and play generations, yeah they'll feel a lot different. But the latter is the direction 3D sonic has turned since the original era. Every iteration of Sonic strips more and more control from the player and any nuance or subtlety from the game physics. The overall concept is much closer to a racer than a momentum-based platformer.
Wow, this topic exploded all of a sudden.
I think what's going on with Sonic Forces is that they know Lost World was an experiment with the formula that ultimately did not work. Forces is an attempt to get closer to basics, and for Sonic at the moment the Generations model is probably the closest they can get to that. It doesn't hurt that the Generations model was a big success the last time they tried it, making a "Generations 2" appealing to both Sonic Team and Sega, especially as they need sales. Lost World was exclusive to the Wii U and that limited its reach and chances at selling to a wider audience, while Sonic Generation was a hit on the PS3/X360.
I like the Adventure model a lot too, but it too had issues (mainly some slippery controls and some seriously wonky camera angles). Sonic, in order to survive, must be able to work in 3D, but no one has found the concrete formula to pull it off. I'd say Sonic Adventure 2 is the closest the series has come to pulling it off, in terms of giving the player a sufficient amount of control while maintaining a sense of speed, but that is purely IMO. Sonic Generations was great but it did feel like it was too automated at times and the Planet Wisp level drove me insane by going almost exclusively to 2D in the final two thirds of the stage and increasing the difficulty dramatically.
But that sense of exploration and alternate routes absolutely does need to come back. Unleashed, which debuted the modern formula, was way too on-rails, and Generations wasn't much better. While I'm not asking for Adventure levels of open-ness, I do think there should be more alternate paths to progress through the levels. It would only add to replayability and player experimentation, which is important as Sonic games are, by design, always going to be on the short side.
But that's just me.
I read what you said, and I deemed it to be an overstatement of the aspects of SA2's story. I despise the usage of the word "edgy" because a lot of the times, it used for things that are dark or grim and has no other meaning. Does it matter whether you only see the results of completely destroying an area with bombs and having the player perform the action? Is it even an inherently bad thing or inherently darker when the latter occurs? Also, I'm supposed to believe that the majority of the people in Station Square were able to escape unscathed? I doubt it; I don't see any of the people that might have been in the buildings or some of those who were driving could survive the flood or the initial surges of water in time. If you hadn't noticed, Black Doom is trying to convince/manipulate Shadow throughout the game to believe that humans are unrepentantly evil and in one instance, The Doom, he attempts to do it directly. I don't remember there being a great number of these monologues that you complain about. All that these instances of Shadow saying "This is who I am!" that you complain about are a basic part of the endings, so it's becoming nitpicking about incredibly minor things on your part.
Big doesn't even appear in the cutscene with Perfect Chaos wiping out the Echidna Clan; Sonic does. Once again, your bringing up of Big the Cat is irrelevant. Knuckles has an importance to the story because Eggman's shattering of the Master Emerald is what released Chaos in the first place. E-102 Gamma and Amy's stories have plot points that aren't directly related to Chaos.
That's what they're doing now. They saw the high reception that Sonic Generations had and after Lost World, they decided to feature Classic Sonic and the boost-style gameplay once again, so what is the problem? The only other thing that they're doing is including a third gameplay style, probably to see how it will be received. Also, the basics of Mario's gameplay is much simpler than Sonic's. It is a basic platformer and its fanbase doesn't complain when it tries something new. In contrast, the older Sonic games' momentum-based gameplay is very difficult to translate to the 3D space and the ever-changing standards of the Sonic fanbase are incredibly high compared to the ones in the Mario fanbase. Mario can release games with the same basic gameplay and not be criticized for it while people complain about the Sonic series for attempting either.
Well, you're encouraged to look for those statues. People will either find one of those statues and wonder what it does, or they'll typically find the Mystic Melody first as Shadow the Hedgehog in Final Chase. Each character also has a power-up in each of the stages, so anybody who is going for 100% would aim to find them. You also need to go out of your way to get other upgrades as well like Shadow's Flame Ring, so the Mystic Melody is not a special case.
This is a complaint about needing to put effort in looking around in the levels. It's as if people don't actually want alternate paths and instead want everything handed to them.
E-102 Gamma's gameplay is noticeably different because the timer counts down and destroying multiple enemies in succession gives you more time. This was carried over to SA2, in which doing this gives you extra points. I pointed out Eggan's levels in SA2 specifically because I considered those to be the best ones. Next, I wouldn't consider Tails's gameplay in SA1 to be entertaining by any means. All that you do is go thrugh one section of a few of Sonic's levels and try to reach the goal ring first. It's a blatant example of padding that doesn't do much different. Because of Tails's flight ability, much of the level design might as well not exist. The only interesting portion of Tails's gameplay is the latter half of Speed Highway because it's actually different, but Tails can skip a majority of the entire stage, making it superfluous.
You believe that Amy wasn't fun to play in Sonic Advance 1 and 3 while I think that Amy was an interesting character with a useful mechanic. Being able to launch myself even higher from springs with the hammer is useful and the hammor has more range than the other characters' spin jump. Also, if you think that the Hammer Jump doesn't exist in the two games, then you clearly haven't payed attention. Amy can perform the Hammer Jump in Sonic Advance 1 and she can perform it in Sonic Advance 3 when partnered with Knuckles. In SA3, both the aerial hammer attack and the Hammer Jump were improved, the former's hitbox being near-instant and the latter having a hitbox for the duration of the move until she collides with a wall.
As a side note, I become sick of those who pad out their posts with separate quote boxes. I'm very sure that you can respond to each of my points in each section in one paragraph.
Spending 9 minutes to beat Westopolis's dark mission is actually very awful. Even after a period of not playing the game for several years because of not having it, I've never spent that much time. I'm also sure that it's intentional for the ARK interior levels to seem large, but both of those levels make you follow a specific path to get farther through it. I don't see how you're forced to beat certain later missions excluding the final ones. For example, you can get to Final Haunt from either Lost Impact or Space Gadget. If you want to take the easy path, then you could just go to Space Gadget. Only the missions in which you need to destroy an aircraft lock you out if you fail unless you restart the stage.
Sylvania Castle only shalllowly resembles Aquatic Ruin and its purpose is to introduce the different partner actions. The only resemblance that Oil Desert has to Oil Ocean is the presence of surfaces coated with oil. It's primarily a desert in which oil is mined, something that wasn't done before in the Sonic games. With the traits and gimmicks that Sonic 4's levels features, it's false to state that Sonic Team just copied levels from other games. You complain about the gimmicks that the game had, but previous games, especially in Sonic 3 and Knuckles, had their own for each level. You're merely underselling the ones in Sonic 4.
All that we've seen were two levels, likely early levels, and only short sections of each one. How can anybody sensibly judge the game as being linear when we only know of two levels? How do you call Sonic Forces's graphics bland just because it showed a simplistic artstyle for Classic Sonic's Green Hill-like level when we've seen how Modern Sonic's stage looked? Finally, you're upset with it being more of the same just because it shows there being a Green Hill-like level, even with its noticeable difference like it being partially desertified. This makes little sense after your statement that Sonic Team should focus on a style, which is why they included the Modern and Classic gameplay again. It isn't as if there's any indication of them reusing levels when Modern Sonic's stage is unlike the ones that we've already seen. I'm sick of people complaining about essentially nothing. I couldn't care less about the fanbase's supposed distrust; none of the complaints made in response to the trailer have any adequate justification.
Yeah, I can and do. It evidences the general lack of consideration before people make these judgments.
LimitCrown, I'm not being disingenuous. I don't think you've read my responses because I actually did give reasons as to why people didn't like those games that weren't inherently because they made changes. Whether you agree with them or not is one thing, but they are pretty simple and valid reasons. Likewise, quite a few other people in this topic (Shaddy, Misinko, etc.) have given their thoughts as to why why each of those games you listed have the reception they got and how they feel Sonic Team could had avoided those complaints. Yet you're still going on about "the fanbase are making baseless complaints" and how "the fanbase would had complained either way" as if Sonic Team aren't adults responsible for the games they produce and advertise to the market.
Do you actually have any rebuttals to the given reasons given that doesn't resort to just blaming the fans for everything related to Sonic that's negative? You're the one who first came into this thread after all with the argument that the fanbase, with little basis in their complaints, shoot down anything new Sonic Team does; and people have in response been giving you several reasons why those games and their corresponding changes you've listed weren't widely well-received. That's not to say this to put down people who do enjoy those games nonetheless, or that (all) fans are always right and don't take Sonic Team to task over minuscule things. But the way you keep making a scapegoat out of the entire fanbase as a whole, especially with the hair splitting semantics you're using...that's just a hasty attempt to build an explanation to fit your dissatisfaction with all the complaints.
Finally, you accuse me being disingenuous, but the next time you present an argument in which you tell the reader they were going to rip something apart without ever it giving a chance...what do you think will happen?
To be honest, it's not like the game is exactly super impressive in the first place in terms of visuals. At least from all the compressed footage we've seen so far. They added new particle effects for things like the homing attack and explosions, and some of the lighting and especially the new water reflections look nice as the successor to the Hedgehog Engine should, but some distant shadows look like some pretty blotchy baked shadows, and the Modern Sonic footage looks a lot more refined than the Classic Sonic footage in terms of visual polish. But it doesn't seem upgraded enough from what little we've seen thus far to say that the Switch can't handle it when the Switch is a slightly upgraded Wii U, which was just above PS3 and 360 in capability itself.
It still kinda looks like a last-gen game is what I'm trying to say, just smoother than what games like Generations were like on said last gen. Certainly above what previous Sonic games looked like, but for four years it doesn't seem like some massive gap or anything.
In Shadow's case, it's more than accurate. Shadow is filled to the brim with stupid melodrama that doesn't really impact or further any other character besides Shadow, Shadow himself is an absolutely uncaring and uninteresting vessel throughout the entire story, and SEGA has taken whatever "coolness" was in his initial inception with his lack of care, and taken it to the utmost extreme by having him not caring about anything. There is not a single hint of emotion throughout the entire story, outside of when Shadow realizes "who he is" in certain endings, and even then it's still droll. Black Doom constantly prattles on about how "terrible" the humans are without talking about much else, and the GUN commander has little to no character outside of being dead-set on killing Shadow. Yes, his relationship with Maria does give him some depth, but the conflict is never resolved within the plot point it's brought up in (both Shadow and the GUN commander have a link with Maria, but God forbid the game expound on that little tidbit). The game is the absolute epitome of "edgy", offering not much else outside a string of darkness, and depressing themes with no real light in between. Take a game like Arkham Knight, which is legitimately dark and depressing in its own right. Oracle will often break up the tension with tidbits of hope and reassurance. Joker shows up later on to poke fun at the situation you're in, and to crack jokes about the darker aspects of Batman's past. When Batman believes to be Oracle dead, he finds renewed strength to finish the fight, and rise above Scare Crow, and twart his plans. When Batman finally seals away Joker, and overcomes Scare Crow, it's down on a triumphant note. Where is any of that in Shadow? The only character to come in, and try to lighten the mood is Sonic, but he's more often than not brushed aside, and Shadow goes off and does his own thing. The game pelts you with a torrent of unyielding, unrelenting dark and depressing themes, and there's nothing really there to lighten the mood. It is the textbook definition of "edgy".
Yes, absolutely. When you put the gun in a player's hand, and force them to shoot, you are no longer letting the player be an idle spectator. You are forcing them to assume the role of the character they're playing as, and are therefore directly holding them accountable for the actions that happen in the story itself. The Walking Dead is a somewhat bad example to use here, but it still holds valid. By forcing the player to choose who lives or dies throughout the game, they are forcing the player to assume direct responsibility for what happens. Either Carla or Doug dies because of you. The way Ben dies is up to you. Whether David or Travis becomes a Walker is up to you. You either feel the guilt for killing someone, or you find solace in the fact that at least you weren't the one to do it. On the flip side, letting a player watch the action instead of committing it takes the blame off their hands. It allows the player to be a spectator to the action, and in some regards it gives a certain depth to the characters themselves. When we watch Batman "shoot" Scare Crow, we're not responsible for it. But we can analyse his actions, and understand what kind've situation he's in to where he's willing to break his only rule to put down the threat before him. Again, there's a fine line between watching a gun go off, and pulling the trigger yourself. We as the players aren't forced to take responsible for Eggman blowing up the Island in SA2. We are, however, responsible for Shadow blowing up Westopolis in Shadow.
Watch the cutscene. One moment, the streets are bustling with people. The next? Totally deserted.
That "minor" thing is present in literally every ending, and it takes up a significant chunk of time in each. And it gets very annoying very quickly. Doesn't matter that it's a basic element of every ending, it's still horrendously pretentious, and still annoyingly grating. And the fact that none of it matters, and Shadow ends the story no longer caring about who he is certainly doesn't help matters. I can recall around 6 times in the story where Black Doom goes on about how "pathetic" or "weak" the humans are, and also about how much "hate" and "contempt" Shadow feels towards the humans. And that's just from what I remember, and I haven't played the game in ages. And these are in nearly every story line, alongside Black Doom passively cheering on your sadism and destruction whenever you kill a human. I recall a specific line, "Make the Humans Suffer" that came up throughout my playthroughs. On top of that, what's your excuse for the final story, where the chips are all on the table, and Black Doom is still going on about how Black Doom is liberating the humans from themselves?
How did you miss my entire point there? It's not irrelevant, his appearance as one big comedic story line hampers the overall narrative of SA1 by bringing it down with unrelated comedy. Especially in comparison to SA2, where everything is tied together, and the lighter moments serve as brief moments of relief in the overall narative.
Enlighten me, if Knuckles hadn't been there at the beginning of SA1, how would it have affected Eggman shattering the Master Emerald, and Chaos' initial rampage?
My point exactly.
I don't have a problem with Sonic Team attempting some consistency. What I have a problem with is Sonic Team shoe-horning in things that should've been buried 20 years ago. I want consistent gameplay, I don't want repetitious themes. Green Hill Zone has been done to death by this point. We already have a 2D game coming out this year, making Classic Sonic's inclusion redundant. On top of that, I haven't had a fully 3D Sonic game for years. If I wanted to play the boost in 2D, I'd play Rush. If I wanted a Classic Sonic experience with a modern twist, I'd play Advance (or Mania). And I can't even get consistency in my boost games. In each game, there's always been some gimmick that's gotten in the way. In Unleashed, it was the Werehog. In Colors, it was the atrocious 2D block sections and the Wisps. In Generations, it was Classic Sonic. And now? It's some 3rd gameplay style. Even when they're being consistent, the can't be consistent. Let the thing stand on its own for a couple of games, and see how it pans out.
Because whenever it tries something "new", it's a nice addition to the core gameplay, or it's a spin-off. See: Sunshine with the FLUDD, and every Mario spinoff ever.
Utopia says hello.
So that's why the Classic games are panned, right? Because they're too consistent? And that's why games like Secret Rings and Black Knight are panned, right? Simply because the games tried to deviate from the path?
Again, there has never been any kind of consistency with the Sonic series outside of the classics. And which string of games, coincidentally, gets panned the least, eh? On the flip side, games like Secret Rings, Black Knight, and Sonic Boom try to deviate from the path too much, and are also coincidentally the most panned in the franchise. And even if you stripped away all the tech issues and made the games more playable, they'd still be mediocre.
On the flip flip side, the Mario community has been treated to nothing but consistency. They have 3 what could be considered "main" series of games: New Super Mario Bros, the stock 3D games, and the games with "3D" in the title, each one building off the successes and failures of the last. There haven't been any radical changes in the formula, outside of Sunshine which wasn't horrendously intrusive. It's actually gotten to the point where Mario fans have started asking for a little more verity in the games, which they're gradually getting.
Point is, Mario's in the position to experiment right now, and they have been. That's why the RPG games exist. Sonic, isn't. He hasn't had any one consistent game in over 2 decades. Each and every title has shoved some new gimmick or mechanic into the mix that radically affects progression, or has literally changed the very foundation of the way the game plays. The changes to Mario have been mostly non-intrusive. The new powerups in the Mario games are optional, collecting everything is not required, and even the most extreme change (FLUDD) only served to enhance the core gameplay. How does the Werehog affect the boost gameplay? How does Classic Sonic affect the boost gameplay? How does stripping Heroes down to a single character affect the core gameplay? The answer is it doesn't. But the answer to the question of "how does it affect game progression" is a "a lot". And the answer to the question of "how does it affect the way the game is played?" is also "a lot".
In what regard? None of the characters beside Knuckles react to it in any meaningful way, and there's no way to interact with them besides observation. They might as well be the pipes that have animals in them. Hidden, obscure, and no one cares when they find them.
I will admit that the first Mystic Melody I found was in Final Chase, but it was on my 5th or so playthrough, and I found it by random chance. To this day, I still have a hard time recalling exactly which pole you head up to find it.
Difference between those upgrades and the Mystic Melody is that once you find them, you don't ever have to use them again. On top of that, they're located in fairly obvious spots. The Magic Hands are underneath an out-of-place collection of metal crates in the ground. What's the one upgrade you get that breaks through steel crates? The flame ring. What's the one upgrade that you get that allows you to attack downwards? The bounce bracelet. Come back after you've got both, and bam, Magic Hands. You know you can go under the tunnels in Radical Highway, so head under the one near the start of the stage to find the Flame Ring. In Aquatic Mine, there are two different mine shafts you can go down. One sometimes has an emerald, but the other one is unexplored. Go down it to find the air necklace. Like, all of these upgrades can be found by understanding the conventions of the level you're in. Once you know that, getting them is easy. Compare that to the Mystic Melody locations, that are all hidden behind obscure parts of the level that aren't easily noticed, and aren't logically placed. Rouge and Knuckles are hidden in dark places you wouldn't normally think to check. Eggman and Tails' are hidden off to the side where you usually don't think to look. And you kind've just stumble upon Sonic and Shadow's. The only real hints are which levels you find them in for both characters, as they mirror each other (Space, Desert, Lagoon), but you only realize that after finding a set for one playstyle.
In a game where 60% of the levels are practically straight lines, and the only sections which are open are hated (read: Knuckles and Rouge's segments) yes, the sudden switch of focus on exploring is jarring and intrusive.
Not really. Still plays like a Sonic game for the most part, you're just holding down the action button for most of it. Your end goal is still to cross the finish line, it's just got the added stipulation of destroying everything possible. It's a subversion of the timer in the classics, but instead of having 10 minutes to complete a stage, you have around 3. Knuckle's gameplay is noticeably different in Sonic Adventure, given your objective is wildly switched up. Gamma is the same as Sonic's, just with an added stipulation. If we started talking about minute differences separating similar styles of play, then Sonic in SA2 plays entirely different than he does in SA1, given that the controls are slightly different, and the levels are more linear.
That's consistent across all characters. You gets points in the speed stages for expertly grinding on rails and whatnot, you get points in the mech stages for blowing more things up, and you get points in the hunting stages for not using monitors.
They still have the exact same issues when it comes to enemies popping in out of nowhere, and overall loose controls.
And I partially agree with you there. I enjoy Tails' stages because they're fun to break, not on the context of the level design itself. It functionally serves no purpose outside of showing just how open the levels are. Which makes a certain degree of sense, given that Sonic Adventure was basically one big tech demo for the Dreamcast. I'd love to see it expanded upon with accommodating level design, but we're not here to discuss it.
Thing about Amy's spring ability is that it's nothing Tails and Knux can't do with their own abilities. Tails' flight is much better for correcting any errors you might've made, and Knuckle's gliding and climbing allows you to scale walls and reach areas without the need for springs or platforms, or other conventions. As for range, Sonic can extend his with the insta-shield, and often when you're badnik-bouncing, you want to be as precise as possible to get to where you really want to go. Having extra range on the hammer doesn't really compensate for not being able to spam it, or the lack of a spin jump. And iirc, the extended hitbox on Amy's hammer spin only applies to her feet. I haven't played Advance 3 in forever, so forgive my fuzzy memory. And the hammer jump is better implemented in Sonic Adventure. It seamlessly flows into her kit by allowing you to use it while Amy is moving (and it's not like getting to max speed is hard, hammer-attacking in the air usually does the trick), and it carries horizontal momentum better.
And I'm sick of folks who don't separate the quote from their response, but you don't see me complaining. Yes, I could reply to each thing with one big paragraph, but I don't, not for padding purposes. I do it so I keep track of what specifically I want to respond to, and so it's a more seamless read instead of sticking a thousand "also"'s and "and"'s everywhere. And to be frank, I don't care about your feelings. This isn't a hugbox, this is a discussion.
Still nets me a B, iirc. It was either that or 7 minutes. I know I got a B like once. Either way, devs clearly expect you to take long in the level. Dark army uniforms + dark backgrounds + people tucked away in corners = an overall annoying experience.
Intentional design =/= good design. On top of that, with the level being so ginormous, you're never "forced" to follow a specific path. Often you're lead into rooms with a couple pathways in of themselves, or a few doors scattered about, making it easy for the player to get lost, and forcing them to backtrack. You can tackle each story path from the normal route, yes. I did that when I last beat it. Problem is, the Missions you have to beat to get to the end are annoying. I'm being vague here as I don't recall the missions themselves. Shadow as a slog to get through, and I only remember the slog.
Similar tileset, same fauna, similar color scheme, and both have skipple sections that are underwater. Oh, but one has a castle in the background, so it's totally unique, right? Like, actually comparing aesthetics back-to-back shows that the two look nearly identical, one is just lit differently.
I'll give you that. Oil Desert is a mesh of Oil Ocean and Chemical Plant with desert themes stuck in, which is fairly different.
It's absolutely accurate to say Sonic Team simply copied from the previous games. You cannot add some sprinkles on top of ice cream, and call it a whole new dish, in the same vein that you cannot call Sonic 4's levels different because they employ a few new gimmicks, especially when those levels are borrowing aesthetics and badniks from the older games. A majority of Sonic 4's tropes are ripped right out of the classic titles. Episode 2 is better with it, but it's still obviously there, and it has no shame in revealing it. Also, I'm not complaining about level-specific gimmicks, I don't know how you got that from my joke. I love level-specific gimmicks, it gives the levels as it brings interesting things for the player to interact with on a level-by-level basis. What I was saying was that level gimmicks alone do not make something unique or original. It has to have the aesthetics to back it up as well.
Same way we judged Sonic 4 based on the 6 seconds of gameplay we got. And we were right.
Because the screenshot we recently got of Modern Sonic's first level looked absolutely horrendous. I've also seen people complain about the art style back as fair as when Modern Sonic's first trailer dropped.
Look guys! Green Hill has some sand in it! It's got the same checkerboard pattern, same bridges, same green and brown aesthetic, same blue sky, and same kind've grass and totem poles as Sonic Generations, but look! Sand! That makes it totally unique guys! And it doesn't contract my statement at all. When I talk about "style", I'm talking about gameplay. If I wanted to play Green Hill Zone for any reason whatsoever, I'd play Sonic 1. Or Sonic 1 8-bit. Or Sonic 2. Or Sonic 2 8-bit. Or Sonic Triple Trouble. Or Sonic Adventure 2. Or Sonic Generations. Or literally any of the 20-something other games with Green Hill. I'm sick of seeing it. I want new locations with the old gameplay. And with Classic Sonic, I don't need more Classic Sonic shoehorned into my modern Sonic game. I have Mania coming out this year to play. Or the mobile ports. Or the Rush games. Or the Advance games. And where do I turn to if I want to play a pure boost game? Oh yeah, no where. Because it doesn't exist. Also, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the Modern level turned out to be rooftop run, because it looks exactly like it takes place somewhere in Spagonia.
And I'm sick of people complaining about complainers. I'm sick of the same "GIVE SONIC A CHANCE" argument being pounded into my head year after year after year on an endless loop. The purpose of a gameplay teaser is to tease the finished product. And I don't like what I see. I'm in my full right to complain about it. We're picking apart what we've been given. If something else comes along to change that, we'll change our tune. Until then, SEGA can bite me.
What we've taken into consideration is the past 10 years of letdowns, and folks like you complaining about how we "never give Sonic a chance". I will gladly stop complaining when I'm given something I can't complain about. I'd love to be proven wrong here. Until then, see my comment above.
More and more I'm beginning to think that Forces is designed as a sort of fail-safe test of new gameplay mechanics, and Newface the nurple is designed to be potentially thrown away if said gameplay or character doesn't end up working out. Like, classic and modern are there, but they may be ready to be done with them if it's recieved well enough. If not, then "well, we still have the classic and modern gameplay".
Really, if that is the case, it's definitely preferable to designing an entire game around a new control scheme and just hoping to god people like it. It's some form of quality assurance, even if it's not everything I personally want out of a Sonic game.
Kind of a reverse-Lost World, if you think about it, and then stop thinking about it, and then completely forget about it.
I fundamentally agree with Misinko's sentiments. We have not had a proper standalone 3D Sonic game...one without gimmicks. It is just proving that Sega & Sonic Team don't know what Sonic is, or what Sonic in 3D is supposed to be. At its core, this is what separates Mario & Sonic. Boost is ok and seems to be a natural conclusion or progression in streamlining Sonic's Adventure style mechanics and building levels around that, with their given linearity. As I stated previously, the fact that the boost function has regressed back to being delegated to the context of wisp placement in the level, is telling. It means that the levels should be a bit more balanced without boost being intended as mandatory focus for the whole track. Instead of player knowing when/when not to boost in the level, it's application is now decided by dev discretion and availability. But it can't be the only wisp in the game, right? How do you force power ups on players to compensate for lack of core gameplay mechanics/physics? Easy, add level progression requiring their use. That should be enough to worry anyone. If you have to use power ups to play the game the way devs want, then it's an inauthentic player experience that's being forced on you (Lost World).
We're basically getting Sonic Colors, but Generations edition: made apparent with the inclusion of Classic Sonic. **Sonic Colorations** with a 3rd gameplay style that's 9/10 not going to be Sonic-like gameplay. If it wasn't a unique gameplay style, they wouldn't need to add another character to introduce it, as it adds nothing to the 2 established gameplay styles. The problem there in, being that they are overcompensating for the lack of core gameplay mechanics the 2 known styles already have. The work spent on a NEW style, could've instead went towards improving Modern Sonic core gameplay...same sentiment can be said for Classic. Or how about: if Sonic Team wanted to do Classic Sonic gameplay so bad, why not make a standalone game for it separately without taking away from Modern gameplay and development? Sonic Mania didn't come into the picture until after Classic was shoehorned into Forces, I guess. But that just means that ST is pandering and playing it safe, may be as an attempt to recoup from losses for Lost World and Boom. I just wish that after 4yrs development, they'd have something more to show for 1st impressions, like incorporating parkour into boost style allowing for traversing of surfaces more freely, or something a step above "Colors Sonic", such as slope mechanics now adding more depth to momentum or SOMETHING along those lines.
I'm just at the point now, where they need to bring back Modern spindash/curling-uncurling. If Sonic Team wants to add/give more core gameplay to Modern that they can build off of for future installments, they need to put Sonic in an appropriate sized U-shape obstacle and work out: momentum, gravity, surface angle, trajectory, and how they interact, to where Modern Sonic can get out of the U-pit WITHOUT boost. Green Hill Paradise and Utopia pull it off, so Sonic Team having more resources and manpower, can do it! If Sonic can get out of U-shapes without boost, successfully, I'm 100% positive a lot of issues will be corrected, and allow for ST to build off of, adding depth to gameplay, power ups, skills, and level design for unique player experiences that vary from player to player / casuals and pros! Hell! It would even fix Classic's gameplay to a degree (he may not even be needed anymore at that point).
EDIT: If you fix Sonic, you get rid of shoehorning and gimmicks. It may even lessen nostalgia aesthetics, and bring us closer to a full length standalone 3D Sonic game.
The third character being Bubsy parodies have exploded! But none have taken the time to mention Antoine D'Coolette.......
Not as funny as Bubsy.
It's both hilarious and sad that a lot of people genuinely, unironically think Bubsy is gonna be in Forces. I'm still sticking with the theory that it's a custom-created character, though.
Is the screenshot of the new character not in prerendered CG? Because if it is, doesn't that massively decrease the chances of it being a custom-created character?
It could very well be, just because there is a base for a custom character doesn't mean that they're not gonna be custom. Take a look at all of the initial promotional art for Dragon Ball Xenoverse, that had a generic red-haired Saiyan as the game's mascot for most of it's development that turned out to be customisable. As well as that, I think it's likely due to the fact that it looks very generic and "blank slate" for a Sonic character, who, nowadays, tend to be very overly-designed and fit a certain style.
That's true, I'd forgotten this was all promo trailers as opposed to cutscenes from the game.
In b4 it isn't a character-creator and is simply a new shitty character
Not persay. Every gameplay trailer for Halo Reach had the default NOBLE 6 gear, when that game tailored the cutscenes to the model you set in the customizer. The cat could just be the default character, assuming you can create your own.
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