Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Blue Blood, Jul 23, 2016.
I don't think I'm prepared to see a non overly cute Tails. But it could make sense.
Sonic fans just shot themselves in the foot.
I don't know how much the rest of you know about Sega culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like Nintendo where you can become successful by churning out Mario games and nobody complaints. If Sonic games are badly received, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.
What this means is Sega, after reading the response to the Sonic Forces backlash, is never going to make anymore Sonic games, nor will they respond to fans. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Sonic fans has alienated the entire Sega Corporation with this move.
Sonic fans, publicly apologize and stop bitching about Sonic games, or you can kiss the entire Sonic franchise goodbye.
If we're getting a really dark story, it could still be Tails. He's been through some shit. Eggman captured him, and made damn sure that Tails wouldn't be doing any more flying...
Also, if we do get a character creator, I'm suddenly going to want the Switch version if only for the possibility of playing as a Mii. (Er... Switch still has those, right? They didn't quit the Mii thing with the 3DS/Wii-U, did they?)
Okay, seriously, where the hell did the character creator rumor come from? Is there anything, any info that has been released that suggests that might be a thing? Because as far as I can tell, this is just utterly baseless speculation.
I sort of can't believe this needs to be explained but I'll do it anyway.
Notice how Sonic Mania has been getting overwhelmingly positive reception by both fans and critics? Well upon any kind of observation at all, one can see that it is an excellent, exciting product. It is a through and through Sonic game made by people who understand the original gameplay and are serious about successfully reimplementing it. Even though there are many factions of fans now, it is easy to see even amongst the younger fans that the game is of high quality and will be very fun. Not everyone wants it but it is definitely something almost everyone can respect.
Forces on the other has left almost the opposite impression. It doesn't look like a big budget, in-development-for-over-4-years project so far at all. Though it's stylistic predecessors were solid games, the game does nothing to address their apparent significant flaws that have been discussed to death for almost a decade. Not only that, it actually looks worse in the areas we expect it to succeed in. Yes and this all from 40-50 seconds of game demonstration. The thing is, advertising is a b*tch and if a big name company like them is actually serious about rejuvenating Sonic like they have claimed, then they would think three times before showing off a trailer that looked that bland and uninspired.
This game can still be good, certainly. I'm hoping so. But it's starting to fight an uphill battle in terms of perception. It's not the fans fault, that's stupid. It's 100% on SEGA to be excellent about their flagship product in choices and execution. The fact that the fan base is even this divided in their perception of the franchise is not the fans fault, are you flipping kidding me? Don't deflect the blame. It's on SEGA. They have to earn our time and money just like every other studio.
With that said...I personally think Sonic needs a mini reboot. Put the best ideas behind one sonic and move forward with a strong vision and concept. Find creative and insightful people who aren't tired of Sonic, and let them steer the ship. End the fanbase polarization permanently, it's just always been a bad idea. One Sonic, one focus, back to excellence.
for me it's process of elimination via the current set-up of characters; Modern, Classic and a random silhouette that otherwise doesn't fit at all between the two playable characters we already know of. To add, one of the slogans is "Join the Reaistance" which makes me feel it could be a statement aimed at us, the player.
I guess that vaguely makes sense. Carry on
"Dark" is never truely defined by how the events of a story pan out. Take Happy Tree Friends for example. The show has hordes and hordes of mayhem, manslaughter, and just outright debauchery on every level, and on a surface observance, it should be one of the darkest things to ever exist. And yet... it's not. When compared to something like Bruce losing his parents in every Batman incarnation ever, or when Trunks loses Gohan in History of Trunks, Happy Tree Friends seems surprisingly tame. And why is that? It's because the reaction to the dark moments is what makes something truly dark. Batman and DBZ both take these events with the utmost seriousness in-universe. But in Happy Tree Friends, it's played for laughs. Laugh at the moose, who just got his face torn off. Laugh at the hedgehog who was just dismembered. Laugh at the rabbit who just got decapitated. It all sounds morbid, right? But it's played solely for laughs.
The same goes for Sonic. In all honesty, what outside of the music makes the player think ill of Scrap Brain? What lasting effects does the pollution have on the universe? The same goes for Chemical Plant. What did Knux's electrocution accomplish in the grand scheme of things? How did it affect his character later on? How did splitting the planet in Unleashed affect the people living in it? Because from what I recall, the only folks who knew what was going on were the ones who were possessed. Beyond that, no one gave two licks what was going on. So in the grand scheme of Sonic the Hedgehog, there's only really been one game with a "dark" plot, and that's been SA2. SA1 could debated, but you also have cheery stories like Big's and Amy's that lighten the mood. But SA2, from start to finish, has dark moments that the characters directly react to, and the most dark moments that play into the overall plot. When Tails first informs Sonic that Amy is being held captive, you see and hear Sonic's concern. When Sonic is fired into space to die, you see and hear Amy and Tails' distress afterwards. When Eggman destroys the Moon, the President took the time to actually discuss Eggman's demands. It's that kind've cause-effect, roller-coaster story that grips people. Now, most folks consider SA2 to be the best story in the series, and for good reason. Characterization is pretty on-point, the story is full of twists and turns, it's got it's fair amount of dramatic and suspenseful moments, and it's got a satisfying conclusion. And a good chunk of folks associate that with the story being a "darker" story. And when most of Sonic's lighter stories are debatably garbage, it's easy to see why people want that kind've storytelling back.
After two decades of horrendous marketing decisions and terrible games, can you blame them?
SEGA's only fanbase is the West. Japan doesn't like him. Europe kinda likes him. America though, is the place where Sonic thrives. So it makes logical sense that they'd try to appeal to the part of the world that gets them the most sales. But the problem isn't that SEGA is listening to the fanbase. The problem is that SEGA is listening to the fanbase... and then twisting their words. Every [isingle[/i] time SEGA "listens" to the fanbase, they tack on some garbage that literally no one ever asked for. "We want Sonic to be fast again!" fans cried after Secret Rings and 06. And SEGA gave it to us, with a pointless, tacked-on gimmick that no one asked for, and that everyone hated. "We want the boost without the Werehog!" the fans cried after Unleashed. And SEGA gave it to us, alongside a hole host of 2D block platforming, the gimmicky Wisps that no one asked for, and 2D Mario-style block platforming that no one asked for. "We want more Shadow!" the fans cried. And SEGA gave it to us, alongside a horrendous "chose your own path" story that didn't mean a thing with the inclusion of a final story. And they've done that over and over and over and over and over again. And that's not to mention games like Secret Rings and Black Knight, which no one asked for, and tanked anyway.
On top of that, SEGA's already tried appealing to the younger crowd. Colors, Lost World, and Boom, are [all attempts to capture the younger fans, and all have failed spectacularly. The primary consumers of all of those have been those "20-30" year olds you're talking about. They've tried morphing Sonic into this wisecracking, "funny" dude that runs around levels that look like they were ripped out of a Mario game. It should be obvious at this point. Kids don't care about Sonic the Hedgehog, and trying to make him this cute, cartoony, cuddly, "funny" character isn't working. Best thing SEGA can do right now is to stop experimenting, and get back to their roots, which, if I might add, is taking 2 men from that fanbase you keep complaining about to get done.
And by "getting back to their roots", I don't mean pulling the nostalgia card out at every turn. I mean understanding what made Sonic, "Sonic", which was his alternative attitude, the creativity in his world, and his no-nonsense attitude. Something we haven't seen in 5 years. And everyone has seen SEGA's desperate attempt to use nostalgia to trick fans into buying the product. They realized that the moment SEGA marketed Sonic 4 with a Green Hill Zone knockoff. And they're sick of it. That's why there's an outcry now as opposed to Sonic 4. Forces promised a new, fully-3D Sonic at the start of Forces and up until Classic Sonic reared his head again. And I have no doubt SEGA's still gonna go under by 2020, even if Mania does phenomenally. They've made too many poor decisions, and screwed themselves over too hard to not to by this point.
Oh no, whatever will I do without my agregiously mishandled franchise that's been managed so poorly that the fans are doing a better job at making games for it than the publishers themselves?
I don't see why Sega doesn't just hand Sonic off to Sega of America at this point. I mean that's where the love is. Might as well give it to those who love the series and can do well by it rather than having out of touch people try and think of what's cool in America these days.
Like seriously, I love SA2 to death and think it has a great story but where'd you get the "most folks" from
Just passing YouTube comments, and the responses Roger gets on his Sonic Dissected videos whenever SA2 comes up.
Probably because of a mix of Japanese corporate pride, and the fact that while the cartoon did alright, Sonic Boom was entirely a Sega of America thing and its games ranged from just above average to a burning dumpster fire.
I hardly think that's a good sample of the fanbase as a whole. A lot of people don't find the Adventure games' corny execution terribly endearing.
Pick one. Need I remind you of "Popping boils on a space lizard with a cannon up its ass"
It is vague but to me it's the least stupid thing they could do at this point. :v:
[CITATION DESPERATELY NEEDED]
Generations was critically acclaimed and mostly well loved, where is this coming from?
I honestly wouldn't want SOA to have full control but definitely have more of a say in the direction of the franchise. After all that's how Sonic's success came to be.
Sonic Team made these great games but SOA will come along and guide them in the right direction when it needed to (though doesn't mean they didn't have their missteps as well.)
And please, tell me how getting sucked inside a story book or shattering an entire planet in order to release an ancient god of destruction just to have it disobey your every wish is any better.
Wasn't speaking in earnest. It's a NeoGAF post from a decade ago that's a copypasta meme around the site.
This guy gets it :specialed:
Just like to remind everyone that this post is a reference to a meme. :v:
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